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Can't have bicycles without either a railroad or truck nationwide logistics system. They simply require too many specialized and exotic parts. VERY high maint

by VLM 6y ago

Can't have bicycles without either a railroad or truck nationwide logistics system. They simply require too many specialized and exotic parts. VERY high maintenance demands per mile compared to shoes or automobiles, or even old automobiles. A decent carpenter working with a decent blacksmith can produce and maintain a horse cart in a village with minimal external commerce; some iron ore imports would be nice, but can be worked around at great effort. But composition rubber brake pads and steel cables to run the brakes and rubber pneumatic wheels and ball bearings everywhere will require at minimum a nationwide rail network. Even the very concept of national or world standardized screw sizes is a very modern phenonomena. Also a pretty solid argument for a lack of destinations. For centuries if something was not sustainable with the population inside a walking radius, it would rapidly disappear. Today I can ride to a big box store, a shopping mall, a library... there was nowhere to go for the vast majority of the population in, perhaps 1021 AD. The next village over isn't all that more exciting than mine. Pre-pubescent kids seem to enjoy bicycle riding for no purpose other than the sensation of movement, although in 1021 AD a bicycle would be an unaffordable toy for a child.

1over137 6y ago
You're describing a 21st century bicycle. A 19th century bicycle wasn't so complicated a machine. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_bicycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_bicycle
- VLM 6y ago
  "Rail Mania" era in the UK preceded the bicycle development article. Before that, the canals and shipping networks were pretty elaborate. I think it likely that the majority of 1870s factory made penny-farthing's were shipped worldwide to their customers via steam power. Admittedly the transcontinental railroad took until about 1870 in the USA, then again the entire bicycle article is eurocentric. Which is also interesting, how come only Europeans ever got involved in bicycle invention? The rest of the world at least occasionally had two wheeled chariots and carts so ... WRT the transcontinental railroad taking decades longer to cover the USA than it took to cover the UK, its worth considering that the state of Texas is about 4.5 "Irelands" wide, and we have 49 other states to cover, so covering the UK with nationwide rail service decades before the USA had transcontinental service is pretty easy. I'm told by a former native that no part of the UK is more than 75 miles from the sea.
Scoundreller 6y ago
> Can't have bicycles without either a railroad I know this isn’t where you’re going, but it would be awesome to have a system of bikes on rails with steel wheels. About a quarter of the rolling resistance, but it is only ~11% of all resistance. Braking and accelerating would become really fun, but wheels would last forever.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  There are a few places where you can rent or borrow a drasine and cycle on a railway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draisine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draisine
- jacquesm 6y ago
  Balancing would be tricky though, unless you have a third wheel contacting the rails and then you are actually spending a lot more energy. https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/file.php?1,file=16349,filename=jklhuiyuiyui.jpg https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/file.php?1,file=16349,filena...
asdff 6y ago
I can imagine making a really crude bike out of wood. make the frame and wheels out of wood, make the crank and rear hub like a miniature ships wheel with pegs sticking out, then jam those pegs into rope to make your chain. Heck, skip that and peddle the drive wheel directly like a big wheel tricycle or a penny farthing. No need for brakes when you have no gearing or freewheel hub: you just slow down your peddling just like a fixed gear bike today.
- floren 6y ago
  I think trying to pedal a direct-drive wooden-wheeled bicycle with no wheel bearings (just grease) would be a pretty unpleasant experience.
- rleigh 6y ago
  That would break down in short order. Wood isn't suitable. The crankshaft and axles would snap from stress if they didn't wear from fricton and vibration. The frame would be subject to horrible vibration and shocks; it would quickly be shaken apart. Bicycles are a product of advanced metallurgy and precision machining, particularly for bearings and races. We didn't develop them until that technology was established.
gruez 6y ago
> VERY high maintenance demands per mile compared to [...] automobiles, or even old automobiles. Why? Isn't an automobile a superset of a bicycle in terms of parts? It has a frame, rubber tires, wheels with spokes, and gears (for the engine/transmission).
- VLM 6y ago
  Bikes "have to be light weight" even if the riders are fat. Cars can just burn more gas. For example the "transmission" on my bicycle is this crazy open air greasy oil contraption that instantly gets covered in rust if not oiled or gets wet, alternatively gets covered in sandy grit if oiled and its a maintenance headache and parts are lucky if they last 10K miles. On a car, you just burn more gas to haul heavy parts, and my car transmission has an external case that must weigh 100 pounds, but the fluid in it is continuously purified by filter and magnet and will last the life of the car maybe 250K miles with no maintenance required, generally. Its kinda interesting you can tell how old a "Car Guy" is by how much maintenance he thinks a car transmission requires. In the REALLY old days transmissions were so unreliable there were dedicated transmission repair shops. Another typical subsystem is brakes. Cars often have brakes often last over 50K miles, although those parts are very heavy and a bear to work on. On bikes, they have to be small and light, so maybe 1K miles average.

by VLM 6y ago

1over137 6y ago

You're describing a 21st century bicycle. A 19th century bicycle wasn't so complicated a machine. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_bicycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_bicycle

VLM 6y ago
"Rail Mania" era in the UK preceded the bicycle development article. Before that, the canals and shipping networks were pretty elaborate. I think it likely that the majority of 1870s factory made penny-farthing's were shipped worldwide to their customers via steam power. Admittedly the transcontinental railroad took until about 1870 in the USA, then again the entire bicycle article is eurocentric. Which is also interesting, how come only Europeans ever got involved in bicycle invention? The rest of the world at least occasionally had two wheeled chariots and carts so ... WRT the transcontinental railroad taking decades longer to cover the USA than it took to cover the UK, its worth considering that the state of Texas is about 4.5 "Irelands" wide, and we have 49 other states to cover, so covering the UK with nationwide rail service decades before the USA had transcontinental service is pretty easy. I'm told by a former native that no part of the UK is more than 75 miles from the sea.

Scoundreller 6y ago

> Can't have bicycles without either a railroad I know this isn’t where you’re going, but it would be awesome to have a system of bikes on rails with steel wheels. About a quarter of the rolling resistance, but it is only ~11% of all resistance. Braking and accelerating would become really fun, but wheels would last forever.

Symbiote 6y ago
There are a few places where you can rent or borrow a drasine and cycle on a railway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draisine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draisine
jacquesm 6y ago
Balancing would be tricky though, unless you have a third wheel contacting the rails and then you are actually spending a lot more energy. https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/file.php?1,file=16349,filename=jklhuiyuiyui.jpg https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/file.php?1,file=16349,filena...

asdff 6y ago

I can imagine making a really crude bike out of wood. make the frame and wheels out of wood, make the crank and rear hub like a miniature ships wheel with pegs sticking out, then jam those pegs into rope to make your chain. Heck, skip that and peddle the drive wheel directly like a big wheel tricycle or a penny farthing. No need for brakes when you have no gearing or freewheel hub: you just slow down your peddling just like a fixed gear bike today.

floren 6y ago
I think trying to pedal a direct-drive wooden-wheeled bicycle with no wheel bearings (just grease) would be a pretty unpleasant experience.
rleigh 6y ago
That would break down in short order. Wood isn't suitable. The crankshaft and axles would snap from stress if they didn't wear from fricton and vibration. The frame would be subject to horrible vibration and shocks; it would quickly be shaken apart. Bicycles are a product of advanced metallurgy and precision machining, particularly for bearings and races. We didn't develop them until that technology was established.

gruez 6y ago

> VERY high maintenance demands per mile compared to [...] automobiles, or even old automobiles. Why? Isn't an automobile a superset of a bicycle in terms of parts? It has a frame, rubber tires, wheels with spokes, and gears (for the engine/transmission).

VLM 6y ago
Bikes "have to be light weight" even if the riders are fat. Cars can just burn more gas. For example the "transmission" on my bicycle is this crazy open air greasy oil contraption that instantly gets covered in rust if not oiled or gets wet, alternatively gets covered in sandy grit if oiled and its a maintenance headache and parts are lucky if they last 10K miles. On a car, you just burn more gas to haul heavy parts, and my car transmission has an external case that must weigh 100 pounds, but the fluid in it is continuously purified by filter and magnet and will last the life of the car maybe 250K miles with no maintenance required, generally. Its kinda interesting you can tell how old a "Car Guy" is by how much maintenance he thinks a car transmission requires. In the REALLY old days transmissions were so unreliable there were dedicated transmission repair shops. Another typical subsystem is brakes. Cars often have brakes often last over 50K miles, although those parts are very heavy and a bear to work on. On bikes, they have to be small and light, so maybe 1K miles average.