6 ms·
Categories of personal information collected
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ape4 6y agoThe more rejection ==> the smarter you are
- immmmmm 6y agoi feel smart now ==> thx, lol too
- recursive 6y agoIf they were so smart, then surely they'd figure out a way not to get rejected.
- birdsbirdsbirds 6y agoWho wants to waste his time rejecting people? Not getting rejected is a bad goal if you deal with the internet, just ask the Nigerian princes or the women on Tinder.
- dudus 6y agoFrom the link: "We do not sell your personal information so no opt-out choice is necessary. What this means is that we do not sell, rent, release, disclose, disseminate, make available, transfer, or otherwise communicate in any way your personal information to another company for monetary or other valuable consideration' I'm.not sure why the title says they sell it if the document specifically say they don't.
- Schiendelman 6y agoPerhaps “inferences” (from the document) aren’t personal information, so aren’t covered by that language.
- jaywalk 6y agoThis is correct, they explicitly use the term "share" and say they do not sell it.
- interator7 6y agoThey're not selling the personal information, but would they not sell inferences and estimations about certain traits?
- three_seagrass 6y agoEven anonymized inferences are relatively useless without the personal identifiers attached to it.
- varispeed 6y ago> otherwise communicate in any way your personal information to another company for monetary or other valuable consideration so technically they could share the data for a jar of horse urine?
- prh8 6y agoAnyone who has used Tinder for 5 minutes knows there's very little to estimate for most users
- hazemotes 6y agoWell they already know I'm not that smart, since I'm on there in the first place.
- SulfurHexaFluri 6y agoAt the risk of sounding like the usual HN snobs, I doubt anyone frequenting this site is below average intelligence.
- encom 6y agoI think precisely half of us are.
- adverbly 6y agolol. Well at least one of us is I guess... So point taken.
- h1bthrowaway 6y agoCome on, the HN snobbery is annoying but so is this reverse snobbery/false modesty.
- wrigby 6y agoI can't help but raise the fact that you've probably conflated mean and median here, although I admit that I've never looked into the shape of the distribution of human intelligence.
- encom 6y agoWell, at least we know where I fall on the spectrum. But I was mostly making a reference to this Carlin bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs
- akhilcacharya 6y agoYou haven't met me ;)
- lozaning 6y agoI assume Tinder and the like is doing every shady thing possible to profit off users, but what seems especially gross about this is that they apparently dont limit this to users of their service, but also people applying to work at Tinder? Big YIKES, extra gross.
- sithlord 6y agoI would hope not, I would assume the GDPR includes all info collected, including that on an application - so it would be included in that information - doesn't necessarily mean they would. but wouldn't surprise me one bit
- b1ur 6y agoThat seems like the implication. Obviously they have to collect all that information for an applicant, and they explicitly state "Managing our career opportunities" as a potential use of the collected data.
- satellite2 6y agoThat happened to me. I received a job offer at their Paris office through a "swipe right if you want to work for Tinder"
- sulam 6y agoGDPR doesn’t apply to most of the world, though.
- bamboleo 6y agoGDPR applies to companies doing business in EU. Pretty sure that Tinder has to follow EU rules given that they receive euros, albeit indirectly.
- Nextgrid 6y agoGDPR only matters if it's enforced. So far, even blatantly obvious breaches like what Facebook and Google are doing (with their analytics, non-compliant consent prompts, refusal to provide all data in response to subjects' access requests in the case of Facebook, etc) are yet to be punished so there's absolutely no reason for them to worry that a data protection agency is suddenly going to spend time & money examining a very narrow edge-case.
- gnicholas 6y agoThey apparently share: > Inferences drawn from any of the information identified above to create a profile about you reflecting your preferences, characteristics, psychological trends, predispositions, behavior, attitudes, intelligence, abilities, and aptitudes. with: > Vendors and professional services organizations who assist us in relation to the business or commercial purposes laid out herein Presumably this is a broad enough definition to encompass any buyer who pays Tinder, thereby supporting the commercial purpose of the business.
- prutschman 6y agoBusiness purposes include: "Short-term, transient use, including, but not limited to, the contextual customization of ads shown as part of the same interaction" So, they don't go to Data Brokers Inc and say "I'll sell you an estimate of gnicholas's IQ for $xxx", but they will go to Scams Inc and say "Hey, wanna target ads to people we think are stupid?"
- londons_explore 6y agoAll companies with a brand name to protect do the latter but not the former. It's why "selling your data" is such a deceptive phrase, since most people assume this means your private data is put on a USB stick and given to bad guys...
- hyperpape 6y agoYou’re right about the literal “your data isn’t for sale” claim. Still, I have a fun fact: at one point in time, Facebook would let you target an ad to “all men who have any of this list of N emails”, and then accept your list of N emails be N-1 women’s emails, and one man’s emails. Result: direct targeting of a single individual. Or, in this case: direct querying of a single individual’s attributes. I imagine tinder might have closed this hole as well, or maybe it never gave advertisers those exact tools. But these advertising tools can leak a lot of data, and the vendor’s incentive is to leak that data while swearing up and down that it’s safe.
- 6y ago
- corytheboyd 6y agoList of people surprised by Tinder selling data to advertisers: Jokes aside, I don’t think the people using Tinder care at all, or can be convinced why they should care. I’m curious, because it never comes up on HN, but are there serious competitors to things like Tinder that are more transparent about how they operate? I feel like all the money is in hiding the details of your “love algorithm” because it’s complete BS, makes it easier to sell as magic if you can’t see the man behind the curtain.
- neolog 6y agoSome people care, but what's the alternative? There's no GNU Tinder.
- bschne 6y agoYou can always do it like Stallman: https://stallman.org/extra/personal.html https://stallman.org/extra/personal.html
- burgerquizz 6y agohow does he advertise this?
- sneak 6y agoApparently rms has a "pleasure card" he gives out to people: https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/2vkeze/he_calls_it_his_pleasure_card/ https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/2vkeze...
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y agoHe used some advertising on his door https://miro.medium.com/max/2100/1*lDSkAjF1958TpEafxuJsLg.jpeg https://miro.medium.com/max/2100/1*lDSkAjF1958TpEafxuJsLg.jp...
- rtuulik 6y agoWith sexual harassment? Stallman isn't a rolemodel people should emulate for interpersonal relationships.
- dimitrios1 6y ago"Mr Lanzone -- we're about to get a flurry of negative press about our shady business practices!" "Quick! Call down to People Ops -- lets expand our D&I business operation. Put out a presser on how we are donating to the BIPOC project!"
- anonu 6y agoTwo thoughts: Even if all users read the fine print, this would probably dissuade <1% of users. Wish there was a "standard" way to read and view TOS, privacy policies etc... It would start with boiler plate and what is typically expected. It would highlight deviations from the norm. and it would be in plain english and in a large point font.
- xxs 6y ago>"standard" way to read and view TOS, privacy policies etc. GDPR, pretty much
- wadefletch 6y agohttps://privacyspy.org/ https://privacyspy.org/
- bamboleo 6y agoSo what Apple is doing with privacy cards in the App Store. Can’t get any more simple than that. I wish they could paint in red things like “shares your data with others”
- Nextgrid 6y agoThe problem with that is you'd need healthy competition that does not violate privacy for that information to be valuable, otherwise what good is it if you don't have a choice anyway because all of the apps tick all the potential privacy-violation checkboxes?
- eddof13 6y agoI wonder how they monetize my strategy. I just use the same 6 message script and essentially funnel everyone the same way to text message and off of tinder.
- reidjs 6y agoI have had success with this strategy as well. The more time they spend on tinder the more chances they will match with someone more attractive than you and lose interest. The goal is to get a direct line as soon as you can and chat through that (text, IG, WhatsApp, etc)
- eddof13 6y agoIt's a numbers game (or at least I can treat it that way), they follow my funnel or they get lost, I don't think twice about it. It's like 6 messages to text and then another 6 on text/whatsapp to figure out if the logistics for a date will work. Maybe 15-20% actually make it to a date from a number in tinder but it requires the least investment on my part.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- durnygbur 6y agoI was handwritting some personal notes on negative experiences with Tinder and boom! Tinder appears on the front page of HN. Is the iPhone lying next to the notebook wired to my brain and reading hand movements?
- jasonv 6y agoI read this and thought, "There's a new dating app called boom?"...
- durnygbur 6y agoThis might be an app that needs to happen.
- mettamage 6y agoFunny that you mention this. Sometimes I'm stuck on a particular issue or merely thinking about a topic. And HN delivers :)
- zaroth 6y agoAlmost like observational studies are highly suspect / subject to confirmation bias.
- varispeed 6y agoIt's time that something like this is illegal. If you have a dating site, all the information you collect from the user should only be used for the purpose of the dating app. Using the data to feed different business should be forbidden or the user should be paid for their data and be aware who exactly will receive it and what they are going to do with it. They managed to force cannabis growers to track plants from seed to a ready product, they should force such companies to track the data so that you can know exactly who is doing what and more importantly you should be able to pull your data at any point in time.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- whalesalad 6y ago??? This is the foundation of the entire internet as we know it.
- sneak 6y agoThe concept of data ownership is questionable. When you do business with me, and I observe you, are not my own observations my data? I am all for privacy, but I don't think that we get to dictate what other people are allowed to do with "our" data, legitimately obtained through the course of normal business. Observations are our own data, including observations about others. You don't own your reputation, for instance.
- varispeed 6y agoIt's the same with software - you can read all the ones and zeroes and memorise them, but you cannot write them back and sell it. Imagine a human is an object and has various attributes that you can exploit. You should only be allowed to use that data for legal reasons or if it serves purpose of the product you are selling.
- joshspankit 6y agoI agree with your stance on this, but also there’s a pretty compelling argument for the other side. Especially when we’re talking about the equivalent of secretly recording audio and video at see-your-pores fidelity and extracting fingerprints from any product you touch, as well as doing forensic analysis on the dirt of your boots to find out where you’ve been. At what point should we draw the line of what’s “[reasonable] observation”, and what’s not?
- rootsudo 6y agoThat's why you should delete and recreate your profile several times to skew up the analytics, and see how insidious it is. If you sign up for Tinder as a guy, over 30, the premium and gold features are $29.99+, as someone under 27, it becomes 9.99-14.99, monthly before the discount of upfront charging. Then they say they don't do Elo Score anymore, but I question that, if your profile is rated higher in a geographic location, and then you change location again, it will rank higher and be more apparent (to my own A/B testing.) Then again the second part is totally my interpretation, it's a fun game, and the API is really annoying. It's a fun time sink, I really wonder more of what other data collection they do. Imagine being able to export an entire list of users, by geographic location, who own cats (or have a cat present in photo, tensorflow) to CSV and then pivot table it. Fantastic, scary fantastic.
- selectodude 6y agoI can with almost complete certainty say that Hinge uses an Elo score. I'd be stunned if Tinder et al. don't do the same.
- actuator 6y ago> That's why you should delete and recreate your profile several times to skew up the analytics Don't do this. A friend got banned for deleting account a lot of times. Also, I don't see any problem in using ELO. Because of skewed gender ratio on dating apps problems exist; but it makes sense to show most profiles in similar normalized ELO ranges. Isn't that how most humans pick their date in online world anyway?
- Nextgrid 6y agoWhat's the downside of a ban on Tinder though? Can't you just recreate an account again and again anyway? The worst you have to lose is a burner phone number.
- durnygbur 6y agoYou have no idea. The Tinder ban applies to the entire fingerprint consisting of at least: phone number, Google/iCloud account (used with the app store), physical device. Then it creeps over, e.g. using another device and phone number but the same Google/iCloud account incorporates the first two into the banned fingerprint, using another phone number from the same physical device incorporates the phone number into the banned fingerprint. Discussions on Reddit claim that they use the WiFi SSID for fingerprinting as well. It's really creepy.
- methodin 6y agoOut of curiosity do theses things come about as a result of trying to monetize and not by initial design or do these companies actually intend to turn into a data-mining platform from the get go? I assume the former but I wouldn't be surprised of the latter.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- polote 6y agoOne thing I would like to have an answer: The dating app market is filled with anti competitive practices and the dating app market objective is opposite to the objective of its paying users. But you will never see anyone who has worked at Tinder telling the world what is going on inside this company, not even anonymously, which is weird, how can Tinder buy the silence of its employees ?
- actuator 6y agoThese things are fostered by open culture. Tinder is big but I doubt Tinder engineering is very big, in smaller companies people tend to drink the kool-aid more. Also, while Tinder's objective is opposite of its paying users. It doesn't mean they have to enable any special thing for it.
- fabianhjr 6y agoThat is the least of their shady things, there is a nice video-essay exploring the economics of tinder by Ordinary Things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnLpylrZ028 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnLpylrZ028
- polote 6y agoOr here : https://marker.medium.com/what-i-learned-about-the-business-of-dating-apps-after-trying-to-build-one-8e5d04225c21 https://marker.medium.com/what-i-learned-about-the-business-...
- dang 6y agoThe submitted title ("Tinder extrapolates estimations on your intelligence and sells it") broke the site guidelines by editorializing [1]. Cherry-picking one detail is already a strong form of editorializing, and it's not clear if this even is a true detail, or just a wild spin. You're welcome to say what you think is important about an article, but please do so in the comments, where your interpretation will be on a level playing field with everyone else's [2], and where you'll have space to explain how you arrived at your interpretation. Cramming a sensational charge like this into the title is basically a form of trolling. Titles are by far the biggest influence on threads, so this matters a lot. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22level%20playing%20field%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
- eurasiantiger 6y agoFrankly, in this case that’s a load of crap and editing the title to not contain the company name makes it look like YC are in their pockets.
- dang 6y agoThe company name is right up there. From the guidelines: If the title includes the name of the site, please take it out, because the site name will be displayed after the link https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (Not in Tinder's pockets.)
- eurasiantiger 6y agoDoes someone here scan all the domain names, and not just the titles, when browsing HN? Genuinely curious, please comment if you do.
- sundarurfriend 6y agoWhen a title catches my attention and I'm about to open either the link or its comments page, I automatically look over at the domain too before clicking.
- YetAnotherNick 6y agoI always wonder who is the buyer of this kind of information. I think the terms with the buyer will be that the buyer can't spam the participant, so I guess the only benefit will be if buyer can correlate with other advertisement profile and will be someone like some big contextual advertising company. Even for them, correlating say 1% of the users and maybe increasing their CTR by few percent is worth going this much huddle. All I know is most of the ads that I see sucks and there is likely much more easier to fix that than hoping tinder have my data on intelligence and would use that.
- Uptrenda 6y agoAnyone have any ideas how they might have technically 'extrapolated estimates' of intelligence? Would they have used a language-based metric like 'idea density'? Or is there another aspect to this? Would love to hear from someone with psychometric and/or data sci experience. It's very dystopian but I am curious how something like this is even possible