3 ms·

Hepatitis A seems to have resurged in San Diego, California a bit over three years ago. It traveled north from there and reached Washington state I think like o

Hepatitis A seems to have resurged in San Diego, California a bit over three years ago. It traveled north from there and reached Washington state I think like over a year ago. In the meantime, I've seen articles about "the return of Medieval diseases" to California on the front page of HN. The reason this stuff should concern you is not simply compassion for the poorest of the poor but because disease can be caught by anyone. If you create conditions that serve as a breeding ground for serious illness in some people, you create conditions that put everyone at risk. This is also why more developed countries need to be concerned with what goes on in less developed countries: We are breeding antibiotic resistant infections in some places due to a lack of adequate hygiene and then sometimes those people get medevaced elsewhere for treatment. The issue here is not "Wow, we treat homeless people like crap!" Yeah, we do. The issue is "And even if you don't care how we treat homeless people, you should care that we are breeding diseases that we see as in the past and this puts everyone at risk." Social justice issues are public health issues a la "The life you save may be your own."

swiley 6y ago
And our new president says that state should be used as a model for housing.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- eganist 6y ago
  > And our new president says that state should be used as a model for housing. Hey, do you have a specific source so that I can read further? I tried googling but to no avail.
  - swiley 6y ago
    Yes, sorry I couldn't send it this morning. He talks about it on his campaign website: https://joebiden.com/housing/ https://joebiden.com/housing/
- badconvincer 6y ago
  Please keep cheap political gimmicks off this site.
Chris2048 6y ago
> Wow, we treat homeless people like crap! Do we? I thought the issue was homeless people are given total autonomy, even if it leads to a destructive lifestyle? EDIT: make baseless allegation -> upvotes, challenge pessimistic moralising narrative -> downvotes.
- golergka 6y ago
  Modern western mentality in general, and HN hivemind in particular has completely embraced the societal explanations behind success or failure. If you're a millionaire, it's just luck and people around you; if you're homeless, it's the opposite. Nothing that you personally do really matters, and people deep down are all the same. This may be a reaction to the opposite viewpoint that was popular in the old, WASP US, but I do think that it's been taken a bit too far now. If you think that "we treat homeless people like crap", ask yourself: would you wanted your own success or failure to be wholly attributed to circumstances out of your control? Would it feel good to be so stripped of agency? For me personally, to respect a person also means to treat him more like a responsible adult and less than a mindless child.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
    >> If you're a millionaire, it's just luck and people around you; if you're homeless, it's the opposite. I don't know what "the hivemind" says, but being homeless is, indeed, "just luck"; in particular, misfortune- the kind that can befall anyone. If I understand correctly, in the US for instance, having a serious accident or falling seriously ill can lead to bankruptcy and homelessness, through no obvious fault of one's own (except perhaps people should not partake into dangerous activities like sports for recreation).
    - packetlost 6y ago
      That doesn't apply to the chronically homeless. The majority of homeless people at any given time are 'down on their luck' and relatively quickly get out of homelessness. You also have to factor in the role drug use and mental illness play into homelessness. Many of the chronically homeless fit into one of those two categories, and a subset of those people do not want or will not accept help.
YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
>> The issue is "And even if you don't care how we treat homeless people, you should care that we are breeding diseases that we see as in the past and this puts everyone at risk." I don't think this is an issue, or rather the preferred solution for that seems to be to close borders and keep all the poor people out. Reminding the proponents of this "solution" that e.g. the people immigrating from Africa to the EU to ask for asylum may be carrying diseases that are not found in the Western world is likely to cause a hardening of the anti-immigration and anti-asylum stance, rather than any support for better hygiene in developing nations. From a national point of view, it's simpler to keep homeless people away from rich peoples' homes than to make sure they don't get sick. So the self-interest argument is not really going to work with people who are already doing fine in their self-interest, they thank you.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I was thinking more about international travelers who deem the world to be their inexpensive playground only to come home sick with things that "should" be easily fixable but often no longer are: Increasingly we are also seeing antibiotic-resistant bacteria from overseas reaching Australia through returning travellers. https://www.news-medical.net/health/Global-travel-and-antibiotic-resistance.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/health/Global-travel-and-antibi... Antibiotic resistance is also intricately linked to travel health and has many implications for travellers. Overuse of antibiotic medications for ailments such as traveller’s diarrhea has contributed to the spread of antibiotic resistance. In Southeast Asia, for example, ciprofloxacin and other fluoroquinolone antibiotics are no longer effective in treating traveller’s diarrhea since they are resistant to Campylobacter, Escherichia coli, Salmonella, and Shigella bacteria. In Pakistan, extensively drug-resistant Typhoid Fever is growing since antibiotics such as ampicillin and ciprofloxacin no longer work. Cases have been reported in returning travellers from North America, the UK, Denmark and Australia. Travellers can be at the forefront of antimicrobial resistance – we are sentinels that can provide clues or alert researchers to developments on the ground. https://www.iamat.org/blog/fighting-back-against-antibiotic-resistance/ https://www.iamat.org/blog/fighting-back-against-antibiotic-...

swiley 6y ago

And our new president says that state should be used as a model for housing.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
eganist 6y ago
> And our new president says that state should be used as a model for housing. Hey, do you have a specific source so that I can read further? I tried googling but to no avail.
- swiley 6y ago
  Yes, sorry I couldn't send it this morning. He talks about it on his campaign website: https://joebiden.com/housing/ https://joebiden.com/housing/
badconvincer 6y ago
Please keep cheap political gimmicks off this site.

Chris2048 6y ago

> Wow, we treat homeless people like crap! Do we? I thought the issue was homeless people are given total autonomy, even if it leads to a destructive lifestyle? EDIT: make baseless allegation -> upvotes, challenge pessimistic moralising narrative -> downvotes.

golergka 6y ago
Modern western mentality in general, and HN hivemind in particular has completely embraced the societal explanations behind success or failure. If you're a millionaire, it's just luck and people around you; if you're homeless, it's the opposite. Nothing that you personally do really matters, and people deep down are all the same. This may be a reaction to the opposite viewpoint that was popular in the old, WASP US, but I do think that it's been taken a bit too far now. If you think that "we treat homeless people like crap", ask yourself: would you wanted your own success or failure to be wholly attributed to circumstances out of your control? Would it feel good to be so stripped of agency? For me personally, to respect a person also means to treat him more like a responsible adult and less than a mindless child.
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
  >> If you're a millionaire, it's just luck and people around you; if you're homeless, it's the opposite. I don't know what "the hivemind" says, but being homeless is, indeed, "just luck"; in particular, misfortune- the kind that can befall anyone. If I understand correctly, in the US for instance, having a serious accident or falling seriously ill can lead to bankruptcy and homelessness, through no obvious fault of one's own (except perhaps people should not partake into dangerous activities like sports for recreation).
  - packetlost 6y ago
    That doesn't apply to the chronically homeless. The majority of homeless people at any given time are 'down on their luck' and relatively quickly get out of homelessness. You also have to factor in the role drug use and mental illness play into homelessness. Many of the chronically homeless fit into one of those two categories, and a subset of those people do not want or will not accept help.

YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago

>> The issue is "And even if you don't care how we treat homeless people, you should care that we are breeding diseases that we see as in the past and this puts everyone at risk." I don't think this is an issue, or rather the preferred solution for that seems to be to close borders and keep all the poor people out. Reminding the proponents of this "solution" that e.g. the people immigrating from Africa to the EU to ask for asylum may be carrying diseases that are not found in the Western world is likely to cause a hardening of the anti-immigration and anti-asylum stance, rather than any support for better hygiene in developing nations. From a national point of view, it's simpler to keep homeless people away from rich peoples' homes than to make sure they don't get sick. So the self-interest argument is not really going to work with people who are already doing fine in their self-interest, they thank you.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
I was thinking more about international travelers who deem the world to be their inexpensive playground only to come home sick with things that "should" be easily fixable but often no longer are: Increasingly we are also seeing antibiotic-resistant bacteria from overseas reaching Australia through returning travellers. https://www.news-medical.net/health/Global-travel-and-antibiotic-resistance.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/health/Global-travel-and-antibi... Antibiotic resistance is also intricately linked to travel health and has many implications for travellers. Overuse of antibiotic medications for ailments such as traveller’s diarrhea has contributed to the spread of antibiotic resistance. In Southeast Asia, for example, ciprofloxacin and other fluoroquinolone antibiotics are no longer effective in treating traveller’s diarrhea since they are resistant to Campylobacter, Escherichia coli, Salmonella, and Shigella bacteria. In Pakistan, extensively drug-resistant Typhoid Fever is growing since antibiotics such as ampicillin and ciprofloxacin no longer work. Cases have been reported in returning travellers from North America, the UK, Denmark and Australia. Travellers can be at the forefront of antimicrobial resistance – we are sentinels that can provide clues or alert researchers to developments on the ground. https://www.iamat.org/blog/fighting-back-against-antibiotic-resistance/ https://www.iamat.org/blog/fighting-back-against-antibiotic-...