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The CIA's Deadly Deceits and the Vietnam War, with Ralph McGehee (1986)
- 4gotunameagain 6y agoI think "intelligence" agencies are dynamical entities that currently find opposition only from other entities of their type. A combination of nearly unbounded public funds, a definite impunity and presumptuousness, and a solid position to feed the monster of the military industrial complex has led to a situation where their actions seem to be directly opposed with what would benefit the average citizen, of either their respective countries or the world.
- nickff 6y ago>"I think "intelligence" agencies are dynamical entities that currently find opposition only from other entities of their type." What does that mean? Aside from the scare quotes are you saying that intelligence agencies only work against counter-intelligence, or are you saying they're all collaborating. What does 'dynamical' mean? >"A combination of nearly unbounded public funds, a definite impunity and presumptuousness, and a solid position to feed the monster of the military industrial complex has led to a situation where their actions seem to be directly opposed with what would benefit the average citizen, of either their respective countries or the world." I think you need to read a little more about public opinion, and about how government works. The intelligence agencies are often working against their military (navy, army, etc.) counterparts, as competitors. In addition, most people believe their government is working to further truth and justice, so they actually support the espionage agencies. Your comment seems to imply that your anti-expionage/military/industry views are common and righteous, yet unspoken or unacknowledged. I think you're totally wrong; there's no conspiracy, and people have widely disparate (often inconsistent) goals.
- simion314 6y ago>most people believe their government is working to further truth and justice, so they actually support the espionage agencies The article mentions how citizens are manipulated with media and false flag operations and the end result is the only winners are the big industry(the article gives some examples at the end)
- rmrfstar 6y ago> manipulated with media https://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/18/books/how-the-cia-played-dirty-tricks-with-culture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/18/books/how-the-cia-played-...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- m4eta 6y agoWe believe what these acronym tells us they do in their taglines! To think the executive branch is coordinated is blasphemy!
- 4gotunameagain 6y agoI think you need to read a bit on dynamical systems theory, and come back when you're done, sans ad hominem
- lowdose 6y ago> I think you need to read a little more about X, and about how Y works. Can be read with a denigrating undertone.
- rurban 6y agoA similar book is Philip Agee's book "Inside the Company: CIA Diary" (1975), just not about Vietnam, but about Latin America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Agee#Leaving_the_CIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Agee#Leaving_the_CIA He also wrote books about the CIA in Europe (similar to Ganser's classic Gladio book "Secret Armies: Operation GLADIO and Terrorism in Western Europe") and Africa.
- oefrha 6y agoNot specifically about the CIA, but Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media (1988, revised 2002) also examines the propaganda campaigns on Vietnam, Latin America, etc. in detail.
- cheaprentalyeti 6y agoWhile the CIA has done a lot of awful things, one should be careful about quoting Chomsky, who talked out of all four sides of his mouth from both of his faces on the subject of the wars in Southeast Asia. Please see: Chomsky Lies: Denial of the Khmer Rouge Holocaust in Cambodia [0]. [0]: https://jim.com/chomsdis.htm https://jim.com/chomsdis.htm
- postingpals 6y agoIs it time we question whether or not we actually need these groups? Or at least whether they should have this much power? The CIA, the NSA, even the FBI sometimes, I feel they all have horrific stories attached to them and it's questionable whether they need government backing, military power, incredible finances, formiddable spying tools, and incredible secrecy to protect people.
- ceilingcorner 6y agoIt’s a simple game of competition. If your competitors have them, then you must have them too. The situation is not dissimilar to nuclear weapons. In 2020, people seem to forget that the Cold War happened and that the KGB, GRU, etc. existed. Most of these outrageous CIA actions were done in the context of combating the Soviets. In short, you will probably never be able to remove the role of intelligence from geopolitics.
- postingpals 6y agoBut this logic doesn't explain why we need the NSA to spy on its own citizens? I mean, sure if someone else is spying on you, you need to spy on them. But if someone else is spying on you, you definitely don't need to spy on yourself.
- ceilingcorner 6y agoSure but that’s just a typical example of abuse of power. The initial comment was about dismantling such institutions.
- postingpals 6y agoWell I also questioned whether they should be given as much power, since it can lead to abuse. Would be as simple as changing a law so they can no longer abuse their power. And if it's not that simple, maybe you have to question why.
- claudeganon 6y ago
- pmachinery 6y agoStomach churning torture, abuse and mass murder of humans in the Phoenix Program, Abu Ghraib, MKUltra; overthrows of democratic governments; support of terrorist death squads; helping to facilitate the crack epidemic in the US and destroying the life of the man who exposed it, via a compliant 'free press'. Just some of the things the CIA is notorious for. Imagine if the Soviet Union had made endless TV series and movies about the heroic deeds of the KGB. It would be quite rightly laughed out of sight as the most absurd, batshit propaganda. And yet that is what's pumped out in the US year in, year out, about the CIA. And it works. Edit: Pretty sinister that since posting this HN is now preventing me from posting and replying. Note to others: don't question the CIA. Edit 2: Since I can't reply to the post asking about which shows are CIA propaganda, shows like Covert Affairs, The Agency, Burn Notice, Homeland, Alias, and others, which AIUI have current or former CIA advisors and guided tours of Langley for the producers and cast.
- ceilingcorner 6y agoPretty much every TV series or movie about the CIA makes them seem morally questionable, or at least operating in a morally questionable world. Entire big budget franchises with Hollywood actors, like the Bourne series for example, make the CIA look outright evil.
- postingpals 6y agoTv and Movies are not really propaganda in US jurisdiction. They have a major bias sometimes because of propaganda, and this can make them seem like it, but... Propaganda takes roots in more serious media, like news and schooling.
- yardie 6y agoThere is an entire department in the DoD who’s task is making sure the “good” US services in films get access to funds, vehicles, bases and military extras. The films where the US are the baddies are shot in neutral countries like Malta and South Africa. They are the very definition of propaganda
- 6y ago
- known 6y agoFrance meticulously trapped US in Vietnam War :(
- jacobush 6y agoThe US digged itself in pretty well.
- vinay427 6y agoAs another commenter mentioned, the US was all too happy to get involved later on. However, France certainly deserves its share of the blame, as do the British for their "traps" in Iran, Iraq, etc. It's especially unfortunate that in recent decades the US has moved from condemning to supporting to taking over their role as resource (and especially oil) kingpins by continuing their exploitation of these resources through governmental interference.
- newen 6y agoInnocent US stumbled into the Vietnam War after evil France meticulously trapped the US into the war, reports US government. French fries will hereafter be known as Freedom fries, declares US government in ensuing report.
- cicero 6y agoWhen I was a kid, any stories of the CIA doing bad things were labeled "conspiracy theories." How could they possibly be true?
- motohagiography 6y agoThe pattern of using farmer/women/student/x-liberation groups to approach villagers and promise redistributed land in exchange for insurgency support is basically venture banditry or chartered theft. Wrap it in an ideology and the rest is just sales. Their internsectionalist approach is what establishes a foothold in the community and the radicalism of a converted now-intolerant minority neutralizes opposition and essentially flips the population. The result around the world has predictably been a regional kleptocracy, because that's literally what the plan was from the beginning - to take other peoples stuff instead of producing it. Hard to defend the CIA, but the cold war was a response to a country that had metastasized from that initial venture bandit play of 1918 by learning the ropes of totalitarianism from Dutch colonies, and then Germany. Suppressing communism failed in China, and that played out as well as expected, with the same metastastacizing producing the dystopia they have today.
- mooreed 6y agoThe hardcover and paperback versions, that the post is based on, are selling for 430 and 967 respectively. [1] Another fun example of crazy Amazon pricing - looks like a price gouging individual/algorithm who is riding a wave of scarcity. [1]: https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Deceits-McGehee-12-Dec-1984-Paperback/dp/B013PRJO8S/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Deceits-McGehee-12-Dec-1984-Pa...
- abarker 6y agoIn the '90s McGehee claimed that he was being harassed in Herdon, Va. where he lived, in part due to his CIABASE database. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_McGehee#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_McGehee#Controversies http://www.pinknoiz.com/covert/protect.html http://www.pinknoiz.com/covert/protect.html