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What is even more baffling to me is the sheer rage and lack of humanity of fans towards the developers when they delayed it several times. There was a lot of h

What is even more baffling to me is the sheer rage and lack of humanity of fans towards the developers when they delayed it several times. There was a lot of hate including death threats to the developers. I understand the internet brings out the worst in people but I can't imagine anyone desiring to be a game developer at this point.

dx87 6y ago
It's not like every fan was acting like that. "We've received death threats" has become a tool to try and change the topic from whatever made people upset.
- detaro 6y ago
  That not everybody does it doesn't make it any more acceptable, or makes rightfully complaining about it any more unacceptable.
  - ekianjo 6y ago
    > That not everybody does it doesn't make it any more acceptable, who said to accept it? Above poster said that death threats are easy to get these days for virtually anything and can hardly be used as an excuse.
    - detaro 6y ago
      Who is using it to excuse anything? Saying that objecting to death threats is used as a distraction technique or "as an excuse" is pretty much suggesting you shouldn't object to it, because doing so is trying to distract or make excuses instead of objecting to unacceptable behavior.
      - mlyle 6y ago
        A) death threats aren't acceptable. They're not really fun to receive. I remember a span when I received several and while I was fairly sure they weren't serious, it's still not too fun to think about. B) whinging about inevitable death threats to deflect attention from your gaffes isn't really great, either. The public complaint, if anything, further normalizes the death threats with people inclined to make them. Secondarily, it generates sympathy and distraction, which is probably the effect one wanted when one chose to whinge. If one wants to object to death threats in a way that improves our culture and makes them less likely, it's probably best done out of band from the actual coverage of one's failing. Do it retrospectively, and in contemplative channels, not ones that are already polemic and filled with attention to the failing that caused the original outrage.
        pmoriarty 6y ago
        "If one wants to object to death threats in a way that improves our culture and makes them less likely, it's probably best done out of band from the actual coverage of one's failing. Do it retrospectively, and in contemplative channels, not ones that are already polemic and filled with attention to the failing that caused the original outrage." Violent extremists are often operate under the mistaken belief that they represent the "silent majority", and that most people secretly agree with what they do. This is one reason that when a political party that tacitly or explicitly approves of extremist violence gets in to power more terrorist acts are committed. It's also why, for example, racists terrorists believe the murders they commit will spark a "race war". They believe that most people are secretly racist, and all it'll take for such a war to start is for their murders to encourage people's secret hatred to come to the surface. To counteract this, it's important for the real majority to not be silent, and instead condemn violence, hatred, and terrorism (which includes death threats) in the strongest possible terms. When terrorists see evidence that the majority actually opposes them it'll require a lot more cognitive dissonance on their part to continue to believe that they represent the majority. This is not a panacea, and I don't imagine for a moment that it will end all violence, especially as some people will never believe the evidence of their lying eyes, but many people speaking out in public against violence is one of the most effective tools we have for combating violent extremism.
        mlyle 6y ago
        Sure. I think it's only useful out of band, though, in these cases. Because if you're pissed off about Cyberpunk 2077, and think death threats are OK... seeing an article with more news about '2077 being late, and an aside of them saying "these death threats are upsetting us" A) reinforces your belief death threats for situations like this are normal, and B) provides you with some validation/happies. I'd wager that the kind of people who issue death threats over video game delays has a pretty big overlap with 4chan. 4chan peeps know their behavior is not normative, and having a bunch of outcry has never stopped their pursuit of the luls... and the kind of article mentioning the threats you're talking about is pretty much winning from their standpoint.
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    What it does, is make "but we received death threats for this, we couldn't have done more" irrelevant as you'll get death threats for whatever you do.
    - detaro 6y ago
      Where does that suddenly come from?
  - dx87 6y ago
    I never said it's acceptable, but when twitter has close to 200 million daily users, you're going to get some death threats when you do something that makes people upset. And it's blatant PR when the company is forcing the devs to do even more crunch time, then tweet about "death threats" and you see the conversation immediately switch from critical to supportive. It's also not like tweeting "Death threats are NOT OKAY" is going to change the mind of the kind of people who send death threats.
  - ramblerman 6y ago
    Nobody said it was right, but it still derails from discussion by offering essentially an insignificant datapoint. At this point on the internet, if the topic touches more than 100,000 people and its controversial. You can probably find a few truly heinous comments. And giving them attention, is kind of what they are after.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  Death threats happen so much to everyone now online it's hard to take them seriously. Which is really rather sad, isn't it?
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  I think it's fairly pertinent that you're getting death threats to you and your family from potential psychos. 99% are probably just peeved man-boys, but it only takes that 1% to kill you or someone you care about. I would say it especially if you get a few hundred a day and you're working 16 hours a day for months on end to push out a game.
  - FruityCoconut 6y ago
    It's not 1% of them though. It's 0%. None of them are getting off the couch to kill anyone because their video game release is delayed. It's an expression of frustration, and we all know that. Unfortunately in today's world, feeling threatened is socially valuable so they're simply playing on that. It says more to me about the disingenuity and/or weakness of the "victim" than anything else. We need to laugh at people more.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  Yes couple of teenagers and mental children sent some. That doesn't mean that the whole player base want them dead over delivery date. Its just very vocal fringe minority.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    You are right, but social media has a tendency of amplifying the voices of its most dysfunctional members.
0xy 6y ago
The delays were sheer incompetence and are far from normal in the gaming industry. You don't guarantee to fans personally that the game will definitely come out at a date (which is less than a month away) then delay it the next day. This indicates that nobody even knew how bad it was. There's also rumors developers found out about the delays from social media. CDPR execs are just incompetent and unable to set realistic timelines. When big AAA releases are delayed, they're usually delayed once and it's done 6+ months from release (because it's obvious then you won't make it). Delaying when it's less than a month out? Absolute incompetence. You lose millions and millions of dollars doing this, by burning marketing dollars and screwing over your retail partners.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  Who cares? It’s a game. Incompetence or not, harassing and threatening devs is not okay.
  - 0xy 6y ago
    Reread the OP. It's not exclusively about threats. This is also a giant billion dollar corporation that deliberately misled customers (who in many cases have already paid them for the product). How did they deliberately mislead them? By saying things like only a natural disaster would stop the latest release date, only for it to slip with less than a month left. That's an actual lie and false advertising. As someone with project management experience, the people making those claims are either incompetent or lying. So yeah, customers who paid them money and were lied to have an absolute right to be furious. Death threats is an excuse. 99.99% of the criticism was justified and without intimidation or threats.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      Estimates are hard, software gets delayed. It’s not fun for the customer but it happens all the time and life goes on. Ask for your money back, or try for a class action lawsuit if you really think it’s fraudulent. Obviously people can feel however they want, but we’re talking about $5–60 and like eight months delay; you’ll forgive me for being a little dismissive of people who are “furious” about this.
jakelazaroff 6y ago
Given that the promotional strategy seems to have focused on engaging the GamerGate portion of their fanbase, I’d say it’s not baffling at all. https://www.polygon.com/2020/12/4/22058784/cyberpunk-2077-marketing-cd-projekt-red-transphobia https://www.polygon.com/2020/12/4/22058784/cyberpunk-2077-ma...
- quibbler 6y ago
  What is "exploitative" about the mix it up poster? I know people like that. Have they no right to exist?
- krastanov 6y ago
  I was confused by this article. I am interested in understanding better the point of view of the author and if you have insight in it I would appreciate if you can elaborate on your comment. The criticism of the character creation surprised me: sure it could be better, but is it not also the most embracing version created yet in any AAA videogame that we known of. Same with the poster: is it not cool to have a buff trans protagonist - they are objectified, but that is the point of posters (see captain america or black widow posters). Please assume good faith in my questions: I understand the topic is sensitive but while I have tried to read up on it, my surprise at the tone of the article seems to mean that I am definitely missing something.
  - detaro 6y ago
    I think the key point in regard to your question is this line > Cyberpunk 2077’s advertising has been saying the quiet part loud. It has maintained the spiky, anti-SJW, anti-woke persona throughout its marketing campaign, careful to always pepper any diverse characters’ inclusion with stereotyping or humor designed to mock its own ideas. As the article concedes, these pieces individually don't have to be bad, but they are always presented by the overall marketing as something to make fun of or stereotype, not as something to take seriously or positively.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    With the caveats that I'm not trans and I haven't looked into the game much beyond reading takes like this, I'll give my interpretation. I think there are a few issues at play, some more nuanced than others. The first (and most black-and-white) is that CDPR's social media presence has been very… trolly. For example, "did you just assume my gender" is not something I've ever heard a queer person say; it's an anti-woke joke at their expense aimed at people who disdain the notion of gender fluidity. These, I think, color the rest of CDPR's conduct; there are other things that might be considered benign if not for their consistent trolling here. > The criticism of the character creation surprised me: sure it could be better, but is it not also the most embracing version created yet in any AAA videogame that we known of. The cynical take is that CDPR is exploiting the issue; they know that this is a popular topic right now and they're appropriating it in order to sell a video game. But even if you assume good faith on the part of CDPR, I think this is a case of intentions not mattering. Ultimately this game is going to be played by a lot of people, and help shape how many of those people see trans issues, and trans people are unhappy with the impression the game will leave. I also observe that people often use "at least they/we are trying" as a way to evade criticism — even constructive criticism — which makes it hard to move forward. Like, are you only supposed to engage with people that are already hostile? > Same with the poster: is it not cool to have a buff trans protagonist - they are objectified, but that is the point of posters (see captain america or black widow posters). Objectification isn't binary; there are plenty of ways to highlight conventionally attractive features, which is why you see films like Wonder Woman lauded for their representation while characters like Black Widow are criticized for superficially similar portrayals. And of course criticism refers only to a consensus; there will always be people who are offended at benign representation and others who are fine with flagrant stereotyping. Ultimately, I think the author knows that AAA titles are made by teams of hundreds of people, many of whom are trying to make a progressive game. But whatever the creators' intentions, when all is said and done the game and marketing thereof will look how they look, and people will feel how they feel about it.
ABCLAW 6y ago
While video gaming has gone mainstream, plenty of marginalized individuals that are poorly socialized still rely on games as an escape. Some, at the very ends of the bell curve, are enraged and simultaneously not equipped with the tools to process that in a healthy way.
ekianjo 6y ago
> There was a lot of hate including death threats to the developers Hate is cheap on Twitter
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Hate is Twitter's currency.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dx87 6y ago

It's not like every fan was acting like that. "We've received death threats" has become a tool to try and change the topic from whatever made people upset.

detaro 6y ago
That not everybody does it doesn't make it any more acceptable, or makes rightfully complaining about it any more unacceptable.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  > That not everybody does it doesn't make it any more acceptable, who said to accept it? Above poster said that death threats are easy to get these days for virtually anything and can hardly be used as an excuse.
  - detaro 6y ago
    Who is using it to excuse anything? Saying that objecting to death threats is used as a distraction technique or "as an excuse" is pretty much suggesting you shouldn't object to it, because doing so is trying to distract or make excuses instead of objecting to unacceptable behavior.
    - mlyle 6y ago
      A) death threats aren't acceptable. They're not really fun to receive. I remember a span when I received several and while I was fairly sure they weren't serious, it's still not too fun to think about. B) whinging about inevitable death threats to deflect attention from your gaffes isn't really great, either. The public complaint, if anything, further normalizes the death threats with people inclined to make them. Secondarily, it generates sympathy and distraction, which is probably the effect one wanted when one chose to whinge. If one wants to object to death threats in a way that improves our culture and makes them less likely, it's probably best done out of band from the actual coverage of one's failing. Do it retrospectively, and in contemplative channels, not ones that are already polemic and filled with attention to the failing that caused the original outrage.
      - pmoriarty 6y ago
        "If one wants to object to death threats in a way that improves our culture and makes them less likely, it's probably best done out of band from the actual coverage of one's failing. Do it retrospectively, and in contemplative channels, not ones that are already polemic and filled with attention to the failing that caused the original outrage." Violent extremists are often operate under the mistaken belief that they represent the "silent majority", and that most people secretly agree with what they do. This is one reason that when a political party that tacitly or explicitly approves of extremist violence gets in to power more terrorist acts are committed. It's also why, for example, racists terrorists believe the murders they commit will spark a "race war". They believe that most people are secretly racist, and all it'll take for such a war to start is for their murders to encourage people's secret hatred to come to the surface. To counteract this, it's important for the real majority to not be silent, and instead condemn violence, hatred, and terrorism (which includes death threats) in the strongest possible terms. When terrorists see evidence that the majority actually opposes them it'll require a lot more cognitive dissonance on their part to continue to believe that they represent the majority. This is not a panacea, and I don't imagine for a moment that it will end all violence, especially as some people will never believe the evidence of their lying eyes, but many people speaking out in public against violence is one of the most effective tools we have for combating violent extremism.
        mlyle 6y ago
        Sure. I think it's only useful out of band, though, in these cases. Because if you're pissed off about Cyberpunk 2077, and think death threats are OK... seeing an article with more news about '2077 being late, and an aside of them saying "these death threats are upsetting us" A) reinforces your belief death threats for situations like this are normal, and B) provides you with some validation/happies. I'd wager that the kind of people who issue death threats over video game delays has a pretty big overlap with 4chan. 4chan peeps know their behavior is not normative, and having a bunch of outcry has never stopped their pursuit of the luls... and the kind of article mentioning the threats you're talking about is pretty much winning from their standpoint.
- DuskStar 6y ago
  What it does, is make "but we received death threats for this, we couldn't have done more" irrelevant as you'll get death threats for whatever you do.
  - detaro 6y ago
    Where does that suddenly come from?
- dx87 6y ago
  I never said it's acceptable, but when twitter has close to 200 million daily users, you're going to get some death threats when you do something that makes people upset. And it's blatant PR when the company is forcing the devs to do even more crunch time, then tweet about "death threats" and you see the conversation immediately switch from critical to supportive. It's also not like tweeting "Death threats are NOT OKAY" is going to change the mind of the kind of people who send death threats.
- ramblerman 6y ago
  Nobody said it was right, but it still derails from discussion by offering essentially an insignificant datapoint. At this point on the internet, if the topic touches more than 100,000 people and its controversial. You can probably find a few truly heinous comments. And giving them attention, is kind of what they are after.
ntsplnkv2 6y ago
Death threats happen so much to everyone now online it's hard to take them seriously. Which is really rather sad, isn't it?
stjohnswarts 6y ago
I think it's fairly pertinent that you're getting death threats to you and your family from potential psychos. 99% are probably just peeved man-boys, but it only takes that 1% to kill you or someone you care about. I would say it especially if you get a few hundred a day and you're working 16 hours a day for months on end to push out a game.
- FruityCoconut 6y ago
  It's not 1% of them though. It's 0%. None of them are getting off the couch to kill anyone because their video game release is delayed. It's an expression of frustration, and we all know that. Unfortunately in today's world, feeling threatened is socially valuable so they're simply playing on that. It says more to me about the disingenuity and/or weakness of the "victim" than anything else. We need to laugh at people more.
me_me_me 6y ago
Yes couple of teenagers and mental children sent some. That doesn't mean that the whole player base want them dead over delivery date. Its just very vocal fringe minority.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  You are right, but social media has a tendency of amplifying the voices of its most dysfunctional members.

0xy 6y ago

The delays were sheer incompetence and are far from normal in the gaming industry. You don't guarantee to fans personally that the game will definitely come out at a date (which is less than a month away) then delay it the next day. This indicates that nobody even knew how bad it was. There's also rumors developers found out about the delays from social media. CDPR execs are just incompetent and unable to set realistic timelines. When big AAA releases are delayed, they're usually delayed once and it's done 6+ months from release (because it's obvious then you won't make it). Delaying when it's less than a month out? Absolute incompetence. You lose millions and millions of dollars doing this, by burning marketing dollars and screwing over your retail partners.

jakelazaroff 6y ago
Who cares? It’s a game. Incompetence or not, harassing and threatening devs is not okay.
- 0xy 6y ago
  Reread the OP. It's not exclusively about threats. This is also a giant billion dollar corporation that deliberately misled customers (who in many cases have already paid them for the product). How did they deliberately mislead them? By saying things like only a natural disaster would stop the latest release date, only for it to slip with less than a month left. That's an actual lie and false advertising. As someone with project management experience, the people making those claims are either incompetent or lying. So yeah, customers who paid them money and were lied to have an absolute right to be furious. Death threats is an excuse. 99.99% of the criticism was justified and without intimidation or threats.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    Estimates are hard, software gets delayed. It’s not fun for the customer but it happens all the time and life goes on. Ask for your money back, or try for a class action lawsuit if you really think it’s fraudulent. Obviously people can feel however they want, but we’re talking about $5–60 and like eight months delay; you’ll forgive me for being a little dismissive of people who are “furious” about this.

jakelazaroff 6y ago

Given that the promotional strategy seems to have focused on engaging the GamerGate portion of their fanbase, I’d say it’s not baffling at all. https://www.polygon.com/2020/12/4/22058784/cyberpunk-2077-marketing-cd-projekt-red-transphobia https://www.polygon.com/2020/12/4/22058784/cyberpunk-2077-ma...

quibbler 6y ago
What is "exploitative" about the mix it up poster? I know people like that. Have they no right to exist?
krastanov 6y ago
I was confused by this article. I am interested in understanding better the point of view of the author and if you have insight in it I would appreciate if you can elaborate on your comment. The criticism of the character creation surprised me: sure it could be better, but is it not also the most embracing version created yet in any AAA videogame that we known of. Same with the poster: is it not cool to have a buff trans protagonist - they are objectified, but that is the point of posters (see captain america or black widow posters). Please assume good faith in my questions: I understand the topic is sensitive but while I have tried to read up on it, my surprise at the tone of the article seems to mean that I am definitely missing something.
- detaro 6y ago
  I think the key point in regard to your question is this line > Cyberpunk 2077’s advertising has been saying the quiet part loud. It has maintained the spiky, anti-SJW, anti-woke persona throughout its marketing campaign, careful to always pepper any diverse characters’ inclusion with stereotyping or humor designed to mock its own ideas. As the article concedes, these pieces individually don't have to be bad, but they are always presented by the overall marketing as something to make fun of or stereotype, not as something to take seriously or positively.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  With the caveats that I'm not trans and I haven't looked into the game much beyond reading takes like this, I'll give my interpretation. I think there are a few issues at play, some more nuanced than others. The first (and most black-and-white) is that CDPR's social media presence has been very… trolly. For example, "did you just assume my gender" is not something I've ever heard a queer person say; it's an anti-woke joke at their expense aimed at people who disdain the notion of gender fluidity. These, I think, color the rest of CDPR's conduct; there are other things that might be considered benign if not for their consistent trolling here. > The criticism of the character creation surprised me: sure it could be better, but is it not also the most embracing version created yet in any AAA videogame that we known of. The cynical take is that CDPR is exploiting the issue; they know that this is a popular topic right now and they're appropriating it in order to sell a video game. But even if you assume good faith on the part of CDPR, I think this is a case of intentions not mattering. Ultimately this game is going to be played by a lot of people, and help shape how many of those people see trans issues, and trans people are unhappy with the impression the game will leave. I also observe that people often use "at least they/we are trying" as a way to evade criticism — even constructive criticism — which makes it hard to move forward. Like, are you only supposed to engage with people that are already hostile? > Same with the poster: is it not cool to have a buff trans protagonist - they are objectified, but that is the point of posters (see captain america or black widow posters). Objectification isn't binary; there are plenty of ways to highlight conventionally attractive features, which is why you see films like Wonder Woman lauded for their representation while characters like Black Widow are criticized for superficially similar portrayals. And of course criticism refers only to a consensus; there will always be people who are offended at benign representation and others who are fine with flagrant stereotyping. Ultimately, I think the author knows that AAA titles are made by teams of hundreds of people, many of whom are trying to make a progressive game. But whatever the creators' intentions, when all is said and done the game and marketing thereof will look how they look, and people will feel how they feel about it.

ABCLAW 6y ago

While video gaming has gone mainstream, plenty of marginalized individuals that are poorly socialized still rely on games as an escape. Some, at the very ends of the bell curve, are enraged and simultaneously not equipped with the tools to process that in a healthy way.

ekianjo 6y ago

> There was a lot of hate including death threats to the developers Hate is cheap on Twitter

koheripbal 6y ago
Hate is Twitter's currency.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]