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Or they could just actually unionize instead of this reactive outrage. It’s unlikely Gebru would have been fired under these circumstances if she had a union co

Or they could just actually unionize instead of this reactive outrage. It’s unlikely Gebru would have been fired under these circumstances if she had a union contract.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
As a manager, Gebru wouldn't have been allowed into a union.
- true_religion 6y ago
  Is she really a manager? In factories the foreman was considered part of the Union rank and file. PMs and other developer leadership could be integrated into a union. Basically if you can be promoted up into a position it can be a union job. If you need a business degree to do it though then it’s non union.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I don't know exactly what her job responsibilities were, but it's not the case as a rule that any position you can be promoted to is a union job. Anyone who has independent authority to "hire, transfer, suspend, lay off, recall, promote, discharge, assign, reward, or discipline other employees, or responsibly to direct them, or to adjust their grievances, or effectively to recommend such action" is by law a supervisor, and they can't join an NLRA-protected union because supervisors aren't protected by the NLRA. As far as I know, all Google managers have the power to assign, reward, and discipline their reports.
    - true_religion 6y ago
      If they can only do it for specific purposes and their actions are reviewed then it’s possible they could gain union memberships. For example foremen hire, train, supervise and evaluate workers. Yet they have a union. I can’t say for certain if it’s a protected union but it is a large and existent one in the US.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Is she really a manager? Yes. > In factories the foreman was considered part of the Union rank and file. She's not a foreman. > Basically if you can be promoted up into a position it can be a union job. That's not how the NLRA works; in plenty of workplaces people can, even if they rarely do, promote without limit and most management positions don't require business degrees, but that doesn't make all those positions NLRA-protected.
paperdropper 6y ago
I hope this does encourage more workers in this industry to unionize. It's unfortunate that people aren't sufficiently concerned that their employer holds a significant amount of power over them - or at least, not enough that they'll do anything much about it - even if they do happen to have a job that pays higher than average. Unions can be valuable resources for all workers.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Or they could just actually unionize instead of this reactive outrage. Some of the employees involved are in management (as was Gebru), so they don't have that right, nor would that protect people in positions similar to Gebru's.

Or they could just actually unionize instead of this reactive outrage. It’s unlikely Gebru would have been fired under these circumstances if she had a union contract.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

As a manager, Gebru wouldn't have been allowed into a union.

true_religion 6y ago
Is she really a manager? In factories the foreman was considered part of the Union rank and file. PMs and other developer leadership could be integrated into a union. Basically if you can be promoted up into a position it can be a union job. If you need a business degree to do it though then it’s non union.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I don't know exactly what her job responsibilities were, but it's not the case as a rule that any position you can be promoted to is a union job. Anyone who has independent authority to "hire, transfer, suspend, lay off, recall, promote, discharge, assign, reward, or discipline other employees, or responsibly to direct them, or to adjust their grievances, or effectively to recommend such action" is by law a supervisor, and they can't join an NLRA-protected union because supervisors aren't protected by the NLRA. As far as I know, all Google managers have the power to assign, reward, and discipline their reports.
  - true_religion 6y ago
    If they can only do it for specific purposes and their actions are reviewed then it’s possible they could gain union memberships. For example foremen hire, train, supervise and evaluate workers. Yet they have a union. I can’t say for certain if it’s a protected union but it is a large and existent one in the US.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Is she really a manager? Yes. > In factories the foreman was considered part of the Union rank and file. She's not a foreman. > Basically if you can be promoted up into a position it can be a union job. That's not how the NLRA works; in plenty of workplaces people can, even if they rarely do, promote without limit and most management positions don't require business degrees, but that doesn't make all those positions NLRA-protected.

paperdropper 6y ago

I hope this does encourage more workers in this industry to unionize. It's unfortunate that people aren't sufficiently concerned that their employer holds a significant amount of power over them - or at least, not enough that they'll do anything much about it - even if they do happen to have a job that pays higher than average. Unions can be valuable resources for all workers.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Or they could just actually unionize instead of this reactive outrage. Some of the employees involved are in management (as was Gebru), so they don't have that right, nor would that protect people in positions similar to Gebru's.