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You might get fired for... supporting your bosses' decision to fire someone?
by pmyteh 6y ago
You might get fired for... supporting your bosses' decision to fire someone?
- freshhawk 6y agoSome people have a stance they chose, that this is some Daily Mail "political correctness gone mad" thing, because SJW cultural domination controls all our lives. They're working through some cognitive dissonance.
- adnzzzzZ 6y agoIt does though. For instance, were any articles framed as [More than X Google workers condemn firing of James Damore], despite that actually being the case? The media, universities and other elite institutions always support the "SJW cultural domination" stance on all these issues and the discussion is always framed from that perspective. You'll find similar framings such as [More than X GitHub workers condemn GitHub's deals with ICE]. You'll never find [More than X GitHub workers condemn removal of meritocracy rug], despite that also being the case. You may not like me pointing this out, but that's how it happens. It's not cognitive dissonance to see that that's how these things go.
- pmoriarty 6y ago"You'll never find [More than X GitHub workers condemn removal of meritocracy rug], despite that also being the case" How would you know it's the case unless, say, 1200 GitHub workers sign a letter of protest as they did in the case of Google? Sure, we could imagine that 1200 GitHub employees objected, but that's not the same thing, is it?
- pault 6y agoPeople are afraid of being labeled a bigot and having their careers ruined because they have a nuanced opinion about an issue related to identity politics.
- freshhawk 6y agoThe cognitive dissonance is that a huge number of highly respected people in the field, and coworkers, said "yeah, this was racist bullshit", and the actual paper in question has been seen by a lot of people by now. But if you are committed to the stance that racism doesn't exist and this is all a grand SJW conspiracy then you have to grasp at straws to ignore the overwhelming number of experts disagreeing with you.
- adnzzzzZ 6y agoI don't believe in experts. They have no power to change my mind about any social issue whatsoever. So them saying "this is racist" means nothing to me. There is no cognitive dissonance. You're projecting it into me because you think I think like you, that I care about what experts have to say, when I don't.
- freshhawk 6y agoIt was a technical question about the predictive power of language models, the biases encoded in them and the results of their use in a large system like all of Google's connected products. But I guess to your particular faith-based ideology the mention of race makes it a "social issue"? Anyway I'm sorry I misclassified you and in the process insulted your religious beliefs. That wasn't my intention.
- adnzzzzZ 6y agoThank you for your apology. My religion is very important to me and it really bothers me when people think I care about experts. Universities and other buildings of high density intellectual activity should be thoroughly demolished with tanks & tractors (and without the people in them, of course), the charade has gone on for too long.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoGebru and her supporters say that she was fired in part because she's a black woman and the racist Google culture rejected her. If they don't want others to frame it as a "political correctness gone mad" thing, they should drop the race baiting.
- claudiawerner 6y agoExactly. Someone reading the headline and not knowing that Timnit was an empoyee of Google would just read the headline into their confirmation bias.
- dx87 6y agoMore like, you support the decision, but your immediate boss doesn't, so they start looking for reasons to get rid of you that don't have any official connection to your stance. I remember a while back seeing leaked documents from Google where some managers shared an unofficial blacklist of employees to never promote and try to get rid of because of their political views.
- tehwebguy 6y agoEvery non-union employee in every state other than Montana has this potential problem. The difference is in smaller companies the unspoken rules are often spoken out loud and the employees don’t make Google money.
- dschuler 6y agoHow does Montana deal with that problem differently?
- chinesempire 6y agoIs that true? Why do people call it "the land of the free" then?
- eat_veggies 6y agoWhy are we conjuring hypothetical situations in which you are oppressed, instead of condemning the concrete case where Jeff Dean looked for flimsy reasons to get rid of Timnit Gebru?
- dontblink 6y agoCA is an at will state. He can fire her for no reason if he wishes, let alone a "flimsy" one.
- vacheron 6y agoHow is this a flimsy reason? Trying to paint this decision as an example of oppression is either ignorant or dishonest. Her actions would have gotten almost anyone fired from any company. If the accounts from ex/current-Googlers are true about her being difficult to work with and creating an uncomfortable work environment I would have expected Timnit to have been terminated long ago.
- j4yav 6y agoThere is a strange thing in modern discourse where there is an advantage in first establishing yourself as a victim before making your point.