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Kind of odd they didn't decide to go with the magrittr syntax, which is in common use and heavily promoted in dplyr / tidyverse. I wonder if RStudio will chang

Kind of odd they didn't decide to go with the magrittr syntax, which is in common use and heavily promoted in dplyr / tidyverse. I wonder if RStudio will change its `ctrl` + `shift` + m shortcut from the magrittr ( %>% ) style pipes to these new pipes ( |> )

grayclhn 6y ago
I'm pretty happy that they didn't, because silently replacing one operation with a similar operation that inevitably has different bugs and different ways of handling edge cases would be pretty frustrating. Letting both live side-by-side as people transition would be my preference.
johnmyleswhite 6y ago
Isn't the reason that magrittr was able to use that syntax that it already existed, so your proposal is a breaking change?
- wodenokoto 6y ago
  I thought %% was some sort of macro expansions and that is how magrittr creates pipes. But browsing through the magrittr github repo, it looks like they just define %>% and the other pipes as functions [1]. I don't actually know the relation between magrittr and the RStudio shortcut, but I've always assumed a shortcut for typing the pipe characters exist because RStudio employs Hadley Wichkham, who in turn is really big on tidyverse and pipes. Would %>% mean anything in R if you didn't import magrittr? [1] https://github.com/tidyverse/magrittr/blob/8b3d510f2a333b22401e8b7be44e0df2ad36ec6f/R/pipe.R#L130 https://github.com/tidyverse/magrittr/blob/8b3d510f2a333b224...
  - kkoncevicius 6y ago
    All %fun% constructs are just simple functions that can be created by the user and can be used as infix operators. Base R has a few of those: %in%, %o%, %*%, %x%, %%, %/%. magrittr created %>% which, when used in infix: x %>% f() calls the function on the right side with the argument on the left side f(x). There are package that provide tons more. For example: https://github.com/moodymudskipper/inops https://github.com/moodymudskipper/inops . And you can easily create your own: `%sum%` <- function(x, y) x + y 1 %sum% 2 [1] 3
  - kilbuz 6y ago
    To define a new binary operator in R (which are just functions), it must be between % characters. %>% does not mean anything in base R.
SubiculumCode 6y ago
argh. and here I've been typing %>%. thanks!!! also just discovered that ctrl shift m in firefox does something weird, looks like mobile view or something..
creddit 6y ago
You can't do that if you wanted it to be a symbol of its own. The use of wrapping "%" is native functionality so making `%>%` into a symbol would break the consistency of that.
vharuck 6y ago
I'm sure they wanted to not replace magrittr pipes. R is introspective, and some reckless people (like myself) will mess with functions' guts in a few scripts. Replacing the `%>%` function with a syntax symbol will break those scripts. Even with scripts that don't metaphorically shove their hands down the garbage disposal, programmers might've relied on certain behaviors of the magrittr pipe. The R Core team is very cautious about breaking anything, including universally acknowledged terrible defaults (I never thought `stringsAsFactors = TRUE` would ever go away). They know the majority of R programmers are not experts in programming. These users just want to write a script, debug it, and then use it for years with complete trust in the results.
- ImaCake 6y ago
  It seems to have been worth the caution. R has a great reputation for stability. The contrast between my experiences in R and python datascience tools is stark. Pandas syntax has changed wildly since I started learning it, but R and tidyverse hasn’t really changed at all. Admittedly pandas was in rapid and early development at the time.
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    I think the R reputation for stability is entirely driven by CRAN. If your package doesn't build on the latest version of R, it is marked unavailable. This means that people can build on R-current, in a way that simply isn't possible with the state of python packaging. Maybe Python just needs a bigger repository with more stringent rules for what will be allowed?
    - vharuck 6y ago
      CRAN is definitely one of the best "features" of R. A very strict and official repository that requires human approval. Most often, that human is part of or close to the R Core team. Most guides I've read for getting a package on CRAN have to mention not wasting the time of somebody who's likely a busy statistics professor.

grayclhn 6y ago

I'm pretty happy that they didn't, because silently replacing one operation with a similar operation that inevitably has different bugs and different ways of handling edge cases would be pretty frustrating. Letting both live side-by-side as people transition would be my preference.

johnmyleswhite 6y ago

Isn't the reason that magrittr was able to use that syntax that it already existed, so your proposal is a breaking change?

wodenokoto 6y ago
I thought %% was some sort of macro expansions and that is how magrittr creates pipes. But browsing through the magrittr github repo, it looks like they just define %>% and the other pipes as functions [1]. I don't actually know the relation between magrittr and the RStudio shortcut, but I've always assumed a shortcut for typing the pipe characters exist because RStudio employs Hadley Wichkham, who in turn is really big on tidyverse and pipes. Would %>% mean anything in R if you didn't import magrittr? [1] https://github.com/tidyverse/magrittr/blob/8b3d510f2a333b22401e8b7be44e0df2ad36ec6f/R/pipe.R#L130 https://github.com/tidyverse/magrittr/blob/8b3d510f2a333b224...
- kkoncevicius 6y ago
  All %fun% constructs are just simple functions that can be created by the user and can be used as infix operators. Base R has a few of those: %in%, %o%, %*%, %x%, %%, %/%. magrittr created %>% which, when used in infix: x %>% f() calls the function on the right side with the argument on the left side f(x). There are package that provide tons more. For example: https://github.com/moodymudskipper/inops https://github.com/moodymudskipper/inops . And you can easily create your own: `%sum%` <- function(x, y) x + y 1 %sum% 2 [1] 3
- kilbuz 6y ago
  To define a new binary operator in R (which are just functions), it must be between % characters. %>% does not mean anything in base R.

SubiculumCode 6y ago

argh. and here I've been typing %>%. thanks!!! also just discovered that ctrl shift m in firefox does something weird, looks like mobile view or something..

creddit 6y ago

You can't do that if you wanted it to be a symbol of its own. The use of wrapping "%" is native functionality so making `%>%` into a symbol would break the consistency of that.

vharuck 6y ago

I'm sure they wanted to not replace magrittr pipes. R is introspective, and some reckless people (like myself) will mess with functions' guts in a few scripts. Replacing the `%>%` function with a syntax symbol will break those scripts. Even with scripts that don't metaphorically shove their hands down the garbage disposal, programmers might've relied on certain behaviors of the magrittr pipe. The R Core team is very cautious about breaking anything, including universally acknowledged terrible defaults (I never thought `stringsAsFactors = TRUE` would ever go away). They know the majority of R programmers are not experts in programming. These users just want to write a script, debug it, and then use it for years with complete trust in the results.

ImaCake 6y ago
It seems to have been worth the caution. R has a great reputation for stability. The contrast between my experiences in R and python datascience tools is stark. Pandas syntax has changed wildly since I started learning it, but R and tidyverse hasn’t really changed at all. Admittedly pandas was in rapid and early development at the time.
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  I think the R reputation for stability is entirely driven by CRAN. If your package doesn't build on the latest version of R, it is marked unavailable. This means that people can build on R-current, in a way that simply isn't possible with the state of python packaging. Maybe Python just needs a bigger repository with more stringent rules for what will be allowed?
  - vharuck 6y ago
    CRAN is definitely one of the best "features" of R. A very strict and official repository that requires human approval. Most often, that human is part of or close to the R Core team. Most guides I've read for getting a package on CRAN have to mention not wasting the time of somebody who's likely a busy statistics professor.