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Again, I repeat, if her team had issues with her, her direct report would know and her team wouldn't be harping constant praise towards her. The people who rem

by tmotwu 6y ago

Again, I repeat, if her team had issues with her, her direct report would know and her team wouldn't be harping constant praise towards her. The people who removed her are executives several skips above her. That is unusual. You keep bringing up LeCun, but LeCun did not get harmed as you imagine - he only conceded to her point because she was frankly the expert in the topic of discussion and he finally acknowledged that.

mustuhfa 6y ago
Can you link to your conclusions? Because thats not how I have seen it. She threatened to leave. If any of my team had an issue, and their response 'Do X, Y, X or ill leave', even if they are in the right, I would not align with them purely out of the fact that that is not the right behavior. You can still leave any company with out threats. Also we have not seen the email to the brain group. I wonder how that compared to her exchange with Lecun and her threatening nature. Lecun was not harmed? How did she contribute to a healthy debate there? Please also link me. Because all I saw were aggressive tones towards someone she disagreed with (even if she was in the right). Again, he behavior (not if she was right or not) is the problem here. You can be right, but still be an asshole. Also, how do you know some people in her team didnt have problems with her? Do you have here perf reports? I believe her direct manager is not the only person that can fire her. She can be ok good terms with her direct manager and still behave unacceptably towards higher ups
- tmotwu 6y ago
  1. https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334877710477385728 https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334877710477385728 2. How was LeCun harmed? As far as I'm concerned, he accepted the feedback. And just so we're clear on what happened then - Gebru was only one of many with qualifications who were aggressively critical because of his abdication of research responsibilities. I don't know why you're so focused on Gebru in particular. 3. Yes, if this was about performance, her direct manager who oversees 300 people would know. 4. So yes, glad to see we agree higher ups, who she likely has little to no interaction with to supposedly be exhausted of her behaviors, stepped in to get rid of her.
  - mustuhfa 6y ago
    1. Again, Managers are not the only person nor do they have to wait for someone’s direct manager to fire someone. If someone’s behavior is not acceptable, anyone authorized person in the company can fire them. Your link is irrelevant to facts. 2. Do you really think lecun wouldn’t have left Twitter if he didn’t find that conversation enjoyable? Do you discount the many other people who found her interactions with lecun horrible? Did any of the other people behave as arrogantly towards lecun as she did? Again, no point made. 3. See 1 4. See 1 So, you can either stop ignoring the fact that her own behavior led to this, or you can continue to think many other respected people in the industry who act way more professionally than her are just against her because they don’t support her views or think google is racist.
    - tmotwu 6y ago
      That’s not the point. Being removed by executives you rarely interact with because they want you to retract a paper is extremely suspicious. And the community has responded with disappointment. You are the only person postulating the intention of her firing. I am merely calling out your assumptions because the consensus from the entire community involved has declared otherwise. Most other people who found her refutations horrible are outsiders who don’t fully grasp the topic LeCun and Gebru and everyone else was alluding to. Who are the respected in the industry that are against her? Not even LeCun, who has said he thinks her work is important. Nothing in your post has facts at all.
      - mustuhfa 6y ago
        Again, you are assuming that this incident was the only thing that led to her firing. If she behaves like this in public, how does she behave and interact with individuals inside the company? It doesnt matter if she interacts with senior management. If I saw someone i never interacted with harass someone, as a manager, should I just let her direct manager deal with it? Absolutely not. HR would fire that person if it was deemed against expected management behaviour. Google even explicitly stated that she was fired for unexpected management behavior. You dont have to grasp a topic to know if someone is debating respectfully. I dont have to be a doctor to know that the person is an asshole if they act like an asshole towards me. I think lets just agree to disagree. Focus on the behavior. Not what she is writing about in her papers. And imaging someone acted like that towards you in a workplace. Imagine you are a CEO or a manager and someone comes to you and says 'Do x y or z otherwise im leaving'. Id be like wtf, sure, if thats how you deal with disagreements, cya'. Everyone is replaceable especially toxic people.

by tmotwu 6y ago

mustuhfa 6y ago

Can you link to your conclusions? Because thats not how I have seen it. She threatened to leave. If any of my team had an issue, and their response 'Do X, Y, X or ill leave', even if they are in the right, I would not align with them purely out of the fact that that is not the right behavior. You can still leave any company with out threats. Also we have not seen the email to the brain group. I wonder how that compared to her exchange with Lecun and her threatening nature. Lecun was not harmed? How did she contribute to a healthy debate there? Please also link me. Because all I saw were aggressive tones towards someone she disagreed with (even if she was in the right). Again, he behavior (not if she was right or not) is the problem here. You can be right, but still be an asshole. Also, how do you know some people in her team didnt have problems with her? Do you have here perf reports? I believe her direct manager is not the only person that can fire her. She can be ok good terms with her direct manager and still behave unacceptably towards higher ups

tmotwu 6y ago
1. https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334877710477385728 https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334877710477385728 2. How was LeCun harmed? As far as I'm concerned, he accepted the feedback. And just so we're clear on what happened then - Gebru was only one of many with qualifications who were aggressively critical because of his abdication of research responsibilities. I don't know why you're so focused on Gebru in particular. 3. Yes, if this was about performance, her direct manager who oversees 300 people would know. 4. So yes, glad to see we agree higher ups, who she likely has little to no interaction with to supposedly be exhausted of her behaviors, stepped in to get rid of her.
- mustuhfa 6y ago
  1. Again, Managers are not the only person nor do they have to wait for someone’s direct manager to fire someone. If someone’s behavior is not acceptable, anyone authorized person in the company can fire them. Your link is irrelevant to facts. 2. Do you really think lecun wouldn’t have left Twitter if he didn’t find that conversation enjoyable? Do you discount the many other people who found her interactions with lecun horrible? Did any of the other people behave as arrogantly towards lecun as she did? Again, no point made. 3. See 1 4. See 1 So, you can either stop ignoring the fact that her own behavior led to this, or you can continue to think many other respected people in the industry who act way more professionally than her are just against her because they don’t support her views or think google is racist.
  - tmotwu 6y ago
    That’s not the point. Being removed by executives you rarely interact with because they want you to retract a paper is extremely suspicious. And the community has responded with disappointment. You are the only person postulating the intention of her firing. I am merely calling out your assumptions because the consensus from the entire community involved has declared otherwise. Most other people who found her refutations horrible are outsiders who don’t fully grasp the topic LeCun and Gebru and everyone else was alluding to. Who are the respected in the industry that are against her? Not even LeCun, who has said he thinks her work is important. Nothing in your post has facts at all.
    - mustuhfa 6y ago
      Again, you are assuming that this incident was the only thing that led to her firing. If she behaves like this in public, how does she behave and interact with individuals inside the company? It doesnt matter if she interacts with senior management. If I saw someone i never interacted with harass someone, as a manager, should I just let her direct manager deal with it? Absolutely not. HR would fire that person if it was deemed against expected management behaviour. Google even explicitly stated that she was fired for unexpected management behavior. You dont have to grasp a topic to know if someone is debating respectfully. I dont have to be a doctor to know that the person is an asshole if they act like an asshole towards me. I think lets just agree to disagree. Focus on the behavior. Not what she is writing about in her papers. And imaging someone acted like that towards you in a workplace. Imagine you are a CEO or a manager and someone comes to you and says 'Do x y or z otherwise im leaving'. Id be like wtf, sure, if thats how you deal with disagreements, cya'. Everyone is replaceable especially toxic people.