6 ms·

Street parking is car littering. Put your car away when you're not using it.

bartvk 6y ago
You seem to casually dismiss the problem of space. Where would people put it away in a European city like Paris? In my city in The Netherlands, new buildings sometimes get a parking garage below the apartments. The ratio is 1 parking spot for every 3 apartments, and next year it'll be 1:4. But new houses don't get a parking garage below them, because that raises the price of the house too much, or so I was told by an architect employed by the municipality. Thus inhabitants get to fight over the available space in the streets.
- OldHand2018 6y ago
  > because that raises the price of the house too much Yeah, demand will always consume everything that is free, but as soon as you put a price on something behavior changes. Owning a car costs money. When I bought my condominium in the USA, I got two parking spaces in a garage with it. With only 1 car, I rent out the second space. 3 years ago, I could rent it for $350 per month. Now, I can get $200. Around here, the condominium and the parking space are different tax IDs, so you can buy and sell them independently. A lot of buyers choose not to buy the parking space when they buy the condominium. You should assume that when your local builders are moving from 1:3 to 1:4, they are doing so in response to market demand for parking.
  - bartvk 6y ago
    You don't know city governments in The Netherlands :) The parking spot limit is prescribed by current building codes. Also, owners are not able to sell their spot, as this is also prescribed and further codified into the seller's contract. Do note that I just describe the current situation. I do agree with the fact that the amount of cars/parking spots needs to go down, to make a city more liveable. I don't own a car. I need one, to regularly visit clients and visit family. Thus, I have joined a car sharing initiative. However, it's about equally as expensive as leasing a new family car. I can afford this, but I recognize not everyone can. And I find this recognition is sometimes missing from the discussion.
jmnicolas 6y ago
You probably never visited Paris. There's no 'away' to put your car.
- iso1631 6y ago
  Then buy some land to park your car.
  - bartvk 6y ago
    This is Europe. There is no land to buy. Land has a specific purpose, for example business, agriculture, housing. You cannot just buy a small plot of land to park your car. It's simply not available. What you can do, is buy or hire a parking garage that already exists. This is possible of course, but expensive. Think 1/3rd of the cost of a family car (either as monthly rent, or as purchase price).
    - jamil7 6y ago
      > This is possible of course, but expensive. Think 1/3rd of the cost of a family car (either as monthly rent, or as purchase price). Then factor this into the price you have to pay to own a car, why does everyone need to subsidise car owner's parking?
      - bartvk 6y ago
        I sense a bit of anger in your last sentence, "why does everyone". For new car purchasers, your solution is possible. For existing owners, that would mean a severe increase in cost of living.
        jamil7 6y ago
        Sorry I didn’t mean it to come off that way. I know that in certain places in the world it’s different but in my city it’s very expensive to own a car and we have a working public transportation system and bike infrastructure, those who drive mostly do it because they can afford to and enjoy the luxury. There are exceptions of course and those that are less able bodied should not be penalised for needing a car.
neurotrace 6y ago
I am 100% for reducing the amount of cars on the road but this logic doesn't really work when you've driven in from out of town and there aren't sufficient parking garages.
- epistasis 6y ago
  Cars are terrible for cities, they make everything about cities worse. So if we are to have both cars and cities, what's needed is a mode change. If you can't afford the cost of renting the space to put your car, a better solution would be to put the inefficient land use of parking where land is cheap, and provide access to the transit system from there. Whether it's parking at commuter rail, or parking on a lot that has bus service.
  - candiodari 6y ago
    Except that's not happening and you can't have a family without cars.
    - epistasis 6y ago
      Of course it’s happening, that’s what the article is all about. It’s what other commenters here are talking about. And all the families that currently live high quality loves, without cars, in these places would find your assertion about “can’t have a family without cars” absolutely comical. For large chunks of the US, top down urban planning has forces people in most areas to own cars. But it doesn’t have to be that way, it was a choice that was made, and a choice that can be changed.
      - candiodari 6y ago
        I would love to hear your answer on how to carry 1 week's worth of groceries for a family of 5 home without a car ... Because honestly, I just can't.
        epistasis 6y ago
ThisIsTheWay 6y ago
Do you believe that you should only own a car if you have a garage or private parking pad?
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  No, this creates more problems because every driveway takes away a pooled parking spot. Kinda like how hot-desking reduces your desk space needs by 30%+.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dang 6y ago
Please don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You seem to casually dismiss the problem of space. Where would people put it away in a European city like Paris? In my city in The Netherlands, new buildings sometimes get a parking garage below the apartments. The ratio is 1 parking spot for every 3 apartments, and next year it'll be 1:4. But new houses don't get a parking garage below them, because that raises the price of the house too much, or so I was told by an architect employed by the municipality. Thus inhabitants get to fight over the available space in the streets.

OldHand2018 6y ago
> because that raises the price of the house too much Yeah, demand will always consume everything that is free, but as soon as you put a price on something behavior changes. Owning a car costs money. When I bought my condominium in the USA, I got two parking spaces in a garage with it. With only 1 car, I rent out the second space. 3 years ago, I could rent it for $350 per month. Now, I can get $200. Around here, the condominium and the parking space are different tax IDs, so you can buy and sell them independently. A lot of buyers choose not to buy the parking space when they buy the condominium. You should assume that when your local builders are moving from 1:3 to 1:4, they are doing so in response to market demand for parking.
- bartvk 6y ago
  You don't know city governments in The Netherlands :) The parking spot limit is prescribed by current building codes. Also, owners are not able to sell their spot, as this is also prescribed and further codified into the seller's contract. Do note that I just describe the current situation. I do agree with the fact that the amount of cars/parking spots needs to go down, to make a city more liveable. I don't own a car. I need one, to regularly visit clients and visit family. Thus, I have joined a car sharing initiative. However, it's about equally as expensive as leasing a new family car. I can afford this, but I recognize not everyone can. And I find this recognition is sometimes missing from the discussion.

jmnicolas 6y ago

You probably never visited Paris. There's no 'away' to put your car.

iso1631 6y ago
Then buy some land to park your car.
- bartvk 6y ago
  This is Europe. There is no land to buy. Land has a specific purpose, for example business, agriculture, housing. You cannot just buy a small plot of land to park your car. It's simply not available. What you can do, is buy or hire a parking garage that already exists. This is possible of course, but expensive. Think 1/3rd of the cost of a family car (either as monthly rent, or as purchase price).
  - jamil7 6y ago
    > This is possible of course, but expensive. Think 1/3rd of the cost of a family car (either as monthly rent, or as purchase price). Then factor this into the price you have to pay to own a car, why does everyone need to subsidise car owner's parking?
    - bartvk 6y ago
      I sense a bit of anger in your last sentence, "why does everyone". For new car purchasers, your solution is possible. For existing owners, that would mean a severe increase in cost of living.
      - jamil7 6y ago
        Sorry I didn’t mean it to come off that way. I know that in certain places in the world it’s different but in my city it’s very expensive to own a car and we have a working public transportation system and bike infrastructure, those who drive mostly do it because they can afford to and enjoy the luxury. There are exceptions of course and those that are less able bodied should not be penalised for needing a car.

neurotrace 6y ago

I am 100% for reducing the amount of cars on the road but this logic doesn't really work when you've driven in from out of town and there aren't sufficient parking garages.

epistasis 6y ago
Cars are terrible for cities, they make everything about cities worse. So if we are to have both cars and cities, what's needed is a mode change. If you can't afford the cost of renting the space to put your car, a better solution would be to put the inefficient land use of parking where land is cheap, and provide access to the transit system from there. Whether it's parking at commuter rail, or parking on a lot that has bus service.
- candiodari 6y ago
  Except that's not happening and you can't have a family without cars.
  - epistasis 6y ago
    Of course it’s happening, that’s what the article is all about. It’s what other commenters here are talking about. And all the families that currently live high quality loves, without cars, in these places would find your assertion about “can’t have a family without cars” absolutely comical. For large chunks of the US, top down urban planning has forces people in most areas to own cars. But it doesn’t have to be that way, it was a choice that was made, and a choice that can be changed.
    - candiodari 6y ago
      I would love to hear your answer on how to carry 1 week's worth of groceries for a family of 5 home without a car ... Because honestly, I just can't.
      - epistasis 6y ago

ThisIsTheWay 6y ago

Do you believe that you should only own a car if you have a garage or private parking pad?

Scoundreller 6y ago
No, this creates more problems because every driveway takes away a pooled parking spot. Kinda like how hot-desking reduces your desk space needs by 30%+.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dang 6y ago

Please don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html