4 ms·

In Poland the number of sick days is unlimited but you need a form filled by an actual MD in order to claim it. Vacation days are separate pool.

by mamon 6y ago

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
Seems like roughly the right solution. Sick days should exist to protect people who are unfortunate enough to get sick. Bad luck shouldn't cost you your pay, your job, or your holiday days. Sick days should not be a simple pool of days off that you get to treat as equivalent to holiday days. This approach has the effect of (further) rewarding people who are lucky with their health, and incentivises not taking sick days when you should.
- hobs 6y ago
  That's a huge waste of a doctor to get a note saying someone has the snuffles or diarrhea. In america you have to realize that getting that note would actually cost people money and time.
  - pc86 6y ago
    Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? If they get sick on Monday you're potentially forcing someone to choose between unpaid time off, burning a day of PTO, or going into the doctor's office Wednesday or Thursday (if they're lucky) and saying "I feel find but had a cold Monday, can I get a note?" And how to juggle the logistics of that Wed/Thur doctor's visit with work? I feel like a "sick day pool" or sick days burning PTO is just a shitty way for companies to try to save 0.02% on payroll while simultaneously pissing off the few employees who get burned by the policy. I can honestly say if I had to use PTO for an unexpected illness and it either messed up a vacation or caused me to have some vacation be unpaid, I would leave no matter how happy I was otherwise.
    - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
      > Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? In Finland, where this same system exists, each urban neighborhood has its own local clinic that in large part exists just for this reason: someone feeling ill can call early in the morning, be seen a little later that morning, and get a note that they can show their employer the next day (or whenever they recover).
      - theshrike79 6y ago
        Also in Finland it doesn't need to be a doctor, just a nurse will do some times. (Depends on the employer).
    - mamon 6y ago
      > Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? No, it doesn't work like that in Poland. You can just call it in, saying "I'm sick" and then go to the doctor. Doctor's note can cover up to 3 days before the visit.
      - pc86 6y ago
        I've occasionally been able to get in same day in the US but it's certainly the exception (and I don't live in/near a major metro). A week or more to see a GP wouldn't be uncommon.
        djrogers 6y ago
        You need a different doc or to get out of your HMO or something. I never have a problem getting in to see a doc same or next day if it’s needed...
      - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
        Additionally, requiring a doctor's note doesn't necessarily mean insisting that unwell people physically leave their homes to visit their doctor.
  - eeZah7Ux 6y ago
    > someone has the snuffles or diarrhea. Or a very serious and debilitating disease! > In america ... that note would actually cost people money Then fix the problem.
  - Delk 6y ago
    Where I live, you can stay at home due to illness for 3 days or so (varies a little) before a doctor's note is required. Often a mild common cold or a diarrhea will ameliorate within a few days. It still feels stupid every time you get past that threshold and still aren't quite healthy enough for work because the cold is just taking a bit longer this time, and you have to go see a doctor just to get the note. Usually employers are paying for basic healthcare, so you wouldn't be paying for the doctor's visit yourself. But of course somebody's still paying, and it is a bit of a waste in cases where medical attention would not be actually needed. But it's not like you have to do that every time; you can compromise by trusting people for a couple of days before requiring that. It's all about compromise.
  - mamon 6y ago
    In Poland there are two differences: 1. Healthcare is government-sponsored, so it costs you nothing 2. There are so called "first-contact doctors", who simply specialize in everyday things like treating common cold, and in more serious cases they would just point you to another, more specialized doctor. Getting appointment on the same or next day is quite easy.
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    That's incidental to my main point. It's reasonable to just use the honour system if, say, at most 3 consecutive sick-days are being taken.
stevekemp 6y ago
In the UK you'd generally be trusted for 1-2 days. If you said you were (still) sick for 3+ days you'd need some kind of doctor's note. Though these are easy to receive - the hardest part is usually getting an appointment in a hurry.
- claudiawerner 6y ago
  That's not true, as far as I know (and only because I looked this up when I worried about it). You get up to and including 7 days and you shouldn't have to give a note. From gov.uk[0]: >If employees are off work for 7 days or less, they do not need to give their employer a fit note or other proof of sickness from a medical professional. >When they return to work, their employer can ask them to confirm they’ve been off sick. This is called ‘self-certification’. The employer and employee will agree on how the employee should do this. They might need to fill in a form or send details of their sick leave by email. [0] https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
  - stevekemp 6y ago
    That's interesting, thanks for looking it up!
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Isn't it still a bit of a fiction, you tell the doctor you have $ailment and then they write a note. If it's a bad stomach flu, your likely on the last day of it by the time you see the doctor anyway. The system inherently needs trust.

In Poland the number of sick days is unlimited but you need a form filled by an actual MD in order to claim it. Vacation days are separate pool.

by mamon 6y ago

In Poland the number of sick days is unlimited but you need a form filled by an actual MD in order to claim it. Vacation days are separate pool.

MaxBarraclough 6y ago

Seems like roughly the right solution. Sick days should exist to protect people who are unfortunate enough to get sick. Bad luck shouldn't cost you your pay, your job, or your holiday days. Sick days should not be a simple pool of days off that you get to treat as equivalent to holiday days. This approach has the effect of (further) rewarding people who are lucky with their health, and incentivises not taking sick days when you should.

hobs 6y ago
That's a huge waste of a doctor to get a note saying someone has the snuffles or diarrhea. In america you have to realize that getting that note would actually cost people money and time.
- pc86 6y ago
  Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? If they get sick on Monday you're potentially forcing someone to choose between unpaid time off, burning a day of PTO, or going into the doctor's office Wednesday or Thursday (if they're lucky) and saying "I feel find but had a cold Monday, can I get a note?" And how to juggle the logistics of that Wed/Thur doctor's visit with work? I feel like a "sick day pool" or sick days burning PTO is just a shitty way for companies to try to save 0.02% on payroll while simultaneously pissing off the few employees who get burned by the policy. I can honestly say if I had to use PTO for an unexpected illness and it either messed up a vacation or caused me to have some vacation be unpaid, I would leave no matter how happy I was otherwise.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    > Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? In Finland, where this same system exists, each urban neighborhood has its own local clinic that in large part exists just for this reason: someone feeling ill can call early in the morning, be seen a little later that morning, and get a note that they can show their employer the next day (or whenever they recover).
    - theshrike79 6y ago
      Also in Finland it doesn't need to be a doctor, just a nurse will do some times. (Depends on the employer).
  - mamon 6y ago
    > Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? No, it doesn't work like that in Poland. You can just call it in, saying "I'm sick" and then go to the doctor. Doctor's note can cover up to 3 days before the visit.
    - pc86 6y ago
      I've occasionally been able to get in same day in the US but it's certainly the exception (and I don't live in/near a major metro). A week or more to see a GP wouldn't be uncommon.
      - djrogers 6y ago
        You need a different doc or to get out of your HMO or something. I never have a problem getting in to see a doc same or next day if it’s needed...
    - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
      Additionally, requiring a doctor's note doesn't necessarily mean insisting that unwell people physically leave their homes to visit their doctor.
- eeZah7Ux 6y ago
  > someone has the snuffles or diarrhea. Or a very serious and debilitating disease! > In america ... that note would actually cost people money Then fix the problem.
- Delk 6y ago
  Where I live, you can stay at home due to illness for 3 days or so (varies a little) before a doctor's note is required. Often a mild common cold or a diarrhea will ameliorate within a few days. It still feels stupid every time you get past that threshold and still aren't quite healthy enough for work because the cold is just taking a bit longer this time, and you have to go see a doctor just to get the note. Usually employers are paying for basic healthcare, so you wouldn't be paying for the doctor's visit yourself. But of course somebody's still paying, and it is a bit of a waste in cases where medical attention would not be actually needed. But it's not like you have to do that every time; you can compromise by trusting people for a couple of days before requiring that. It's all about compromise.
- mamon 6y ago
  In Poland there are two differences: 1. Healthcare is government-sponsored, so it costs you nothing 2. There are so called "first-contact doctors", who simply specialize in everyday things like treating common cold, and in more serious cases they would just point you to another, more specialized doctor. Getting appointment on the same or next day is quite easy.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  That's incidental to my main point. It's reasonable to just use the honour system if, say, at most 3 consecutive sick-days are being taken.

stevekemp 6y ago

In the UK you'd generally be trusted for 1-2 days. If you said you were (still) sick for 3+ days you'd need some kind of doctor's note. Though these are easy to receive - the hardest part is usually getting an appointment in a hurry.

claudiawerner 6y ago
That's not true, as far as I know (and only because I looked this up when I worried about it). You get up to and including 7 days and you shouldn't have to give a note. From gov.uk[0]: >If employees are off work for 7 days or less, they do not need to give their employer a fit note or other proof of sickness from a medical professional. >When they return to work, their employer can ask them to confirm they’ve been off sick. This is called ‘self-certification’. The employer and employee will agree on how the employee should do this. They might need to fill in a form or send details of their sick leave by email. [0] https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
- stevekemp 6y ago
  That's interesting, thanks for looking it up!
pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Isn't it still a bit of a fiction, you tell the doctor you have $ailment and then they write a note. If it's a bad stomach flu, your likely on the last day of it by the time you see the doctor anyway. The system inherently needs trust.