7 ms·

Yeah, I burned myself out really bad trying to go above and beyond for a few years at various companies. Just ended up frustrated, making no more money than peo

by dx87 6y ago

Yeah, I burned myself out really bad trying to go above and beyond for a few years at various companies. Just ended up frustrated, making no more money than people coasting in the same position, and still got laid off during downsizing instead of the people who spent time playing office politics and going out to happy hour with the supervisor. I feel kind of guilty now though, because I actually managed to get hired at a really good company a few years ago, but I can't work up the motivation to put in as much effort as I did before. Now I'm the one coasting (still not schmoozing though), and see other new people making the same mistake I did.

AmericanChopper 6y ago
Working hard for a raise/promotion is a losing strategy. Working hard so you can change jobs every 18-24 months with big salary jumps is rather easy to do consistently. Trying to get a promotion is deciding to compete for one position in one company with essentially every qualified candidate in the world. It’s easy to see how looking for a better job every so often has better odds for success.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  I don't think so at all. I have worked hard, and had a lot of fun at now two of the FAANG's. Sure the reward has not been like winning the startup lottery, but if you told myself 20 years ago I would have this impact and earn this much money I would not have believed it. I totally suck at politics, and have seen others rise quicker, but doing good work does get rewarded in my experience.
  - AmericanChopper 6y ago
    I guess this observation doesn’t really apply to the FAANGs quite as much. They have such an insatiable demand for labor that it’s much easier to work your way up to more money consistently over time. I guess you just find the level you want to coast at. I haven’t won the start up lottery either. But I have been able to be fully employed as a contractor with a very good hourly rate for quite a long time. Which probably means I’m coasting right now. But I still manage to bump my rates up every so often, so maybe not.
    - kmonsen 6y ago
      Seems like you are doing pretty well. Coasting means different things to different people, do what’s right for you. Just make sure there are no regrets later, life is too short for that. Sometimes that means coasting and spending more time on your hobbies or with your family. Can’t see anything wrong with that.
  - decafninja 6y ago
    I would think FAANG would be considered as "endgame company" for many. Including myself.
    - kmonsen 6y ago
      I honestly think you can do it if you want even not knowing much about you. People there are not all special. If you want some tips or a referral let me know, email is my username @ gmail.
    - wolco2 6y ago
      Back in the day you wanted in to get shares before they went public. Then the dream was to cashout and using your google money you can create something. Then people stopped getting stocks but used it to get funding. Then there are the people who get in any position for less than 2 years and use that expereince to get a CTO job at a smaller org. Why do you consider it your endgame? Top salary? Interesting problems? Making a difference?
      - everdrive 6y ago
        This is an interesting question. I moved into to IT/Security from another sector, and I'm trying to figure out my endgame. At least at my company, there aren't any jobs I covet. Most of the higher ups don't impress me, and they don't seem to know what's going on in their company very well. It seems like if I moved into leadership, I'd have to spend a lot of time lying-via-powerpoint. (that is, taking a complex problem, and both simplifying and misrepresenting in a powerpoint which shows "progress" happening.) I wasn't a loser in my old career, and I don't want to be a loser in tech. But, it seems like everyone is a loser here. IT/Security is seen as a well-paid janitor; someone you need, but not someone you really care to learn about. Worse, becoming "important" in a company seems to be useful only in so far as you have sway at that particular company. ie, it's a lot of work for some very local, and very useless prestige. And worse, there's no external meaning other than your own status. Why do I care if I have a little fiefdom within company walls? Nothing worthwhile is being accomplished, it's just more sales.
    - _benj 6y ago
- randomNumber7 6y ago
  A friend of mine just doubled his salary. He wanted to resign and look for an other job, but his company offered him double salary. If your work makes you an important person in the company, you have a strong basis for negotiation. Most people just don't use it...
  - ldng 6y ago
    Only if the company realize your important.
  - disambiguation 6y ago
    kudos to your friend, but signalling your intent to leave is red flag for management often times companies will opt to pay more as a stop-gap until they find a cheaper replacement
    - bananaface 6y ago
      I honestly think this is a myth propogated by managers to discourage negotiation They know the game, no employee ever is going to stay if they're being paid half their market value. "Commitment" my ass lol. But more to the point in order to replace you they have to pay market value for your job. They can only find someone cheaper if your job is beneath you. Parlaying offers is fine as long as the work they need doing is worth that money. Who are they going to replace you with? Hiring is expensive even if they find a sucker. The only risk is if your market value is higher than they need to pay to get your job done.
      - disambiguation 6y ago
        maybe, i'm not saying employees shouldn't negotiate but there's a lot of ways it can backfire so you might be better of hopping to another company at that point, rather than waiting around to have the rug pulled out from underneath you
        bananaface 6y ago
jobu 6y ago
In my experience "going above and beyond" tends to get you more work and responsibility for roughly the same pay. I did get the occasional 5% annual raise instead of the standard 2-3% that most of my coworkers received. Even then the raises were usually more dependent on how well the company performed vs how well I performed.
- asdff 6y ago
  I've noticed this a few times in my career and have had to start slowing myself down at times. If I deliver in a day instead of the expected two for example, I don't get that second day off, I get twice as much work and get paid the same for it. The harder I work, the less I make. If they want me to bust my ass and sacrifice sleep I need to be given hazard pay.
  - anon9001 6y ago
    You're right, and as a result I try to work no more than 4 hours a day, preferably less. I take every possible opportunity to extend timelines, create buffer, and reduce scope. I'm highly incentivized to farm as much time as possible, so that's what I do. I try to target obscure projects that I already know how to do, where there's an assumption that nobody really knows how to do it because it's obscure. Complexity and obscurity are great cover. Picking up legacy projects on old tech is a good way to do this. "Oh no, PHP sucks! Nobody's touched this code in years! Not to worry, give me a couple of days I'm sure I'll figure it out." Now my estimate is 3x longer than it would be if I was working in the areas under normal development. I've also got my notifications pretty dialed-in so I never appear absent when someone needs me. I prevent slack from marking me idle. I turn my notifications to a more aggressive setting when I want to take a nap. Nobody knows how long it takes to get a piece of code working, not even other programmers, so who cares if it takes a week instead of a day. Sometimes I keep a local branch that's represents my actual work and a second branch for pushing to the team. If I get in "flow" and want to get something done in a block of many hours, I can drip-feed the commits over a couple of days instead of dropping a PR at 2am and having everyone think I'm free to work on something else tomorrow. With a little shell scripting, I can make commits and push on a timer too, which is sometimes useful if I need to "work late" because everyone is stressed. When something blows up in prod, I put in the extra hours with a good attitude. That helps create the perception that I'm the go-to person for things and a team player, so it's not surprising to anyone if I'm running a little late on a deliverable because I had to drop everything and help with something important (another way to add more buffer). I also try to pair sometimes, especially with new coworkers, so that they can see me working in short bursts. Pairing serves as a psychological anchor that I must work that way all the time. After all, I don't want people thinking I'm lazy. Sometimes mistakes happen and I do get stuck working an 8 hour day, but those mistakes would have been 16 hour days if I wasn't actively avoiding doing as much work as possible. As much as I can stomach it, I try to use the extra time to socialize with coworkers to help raise my visibility and build allies. That's the smart thing to do. In reality, I mostly play video games, do housework, and anxiously wait until work is "over" for the day so I can detach from my notifications. Has tech turned me into a sociopath? Maybe. Do I feel like a prisoner in my own home? Certainly. But if I don't use this strategy, I'll constantly be over-committed, burned out, salty, and missing social connections with coworkers that are more valuable than the actual work. I can't wait until I have enough money to be financially independent and never have to do this nonsense again.

by dx87 6y ago

AmericanChopper 6y ago

Working hard for a raise/promotion is a losing strategy. Working hard so you can change jobs every 18-24 months with big salary jumps is rather easy to do consistently. Trying to get a promotion is deciding to compete for one position in one company with essentially every qualified candidate in the world. It’s easy to see how looking for a better job every so often has better odds for success.

kmonsen 6y ago
I don't think so at all. I have worked hard, and had a lot of fun at now two of the FAANG's. Sure the reward has not been like winning the startup lottery, but if you told myself 20 years ago I would have this impact and earn this much money I would not have believed it. I totally suck at politics, and have seen others rise quicker, but doing good work does get rewarded in my experience.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  I guess this observation doesn’t really apply to the FAANGs quite as much. They have such an insatiable demand for labor that it’s much easier to work your way up to more money consistently over time. I guess you just find the level you want to coast at. I haven’t won the start up lottery either. But I have been able to be fully employed as a contractor with a very good hourly rate for quite a long time. Which probably means I’m coasting right now. But I still manage to bump my rates up every so often, so maybe not.
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    Seems like you are doing pretty well. Coasting means different things to different people, do what’s right for you. Just make sure there are no regrets later, life is too short for that. Sometimes that means coasting and spending more time on your hobbies or with your family. Can’t see anything wrong with that.
- decafninja 6y ago
  I would think FAANG would be considered as "endgame company" for many. Including myself.
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    I honestly think you can do it if you want even not knowing much about you. People there are not all special. If you want some tips or a referral let me know, email is my username @ gmail.
  - wolco2 6y ago
    Back in the day you wanted in to get shares before they went public. Then the dream was to cashout and using your google money you can create something. Then people stopped getting stocks but used it to get funding. Then there are the people who get in any position for less than 2 years and use that expereince to get a CTO job at a smaller org. Why do you consider it your endgame? Top salary? Interesting problems? Making a difference?
    - everdrive 6y ago
      This is an interesting question. I moved into to IT/Security from another sector, and I'm trying to figure out my endgame. At least at my company, there aren't any jobs I covet. Most of the higher ups don't impress me, and they don't seem to know what's going on in their company very well. It seems like if I moved into leadership, I'd have to spend a lot of time lying-via-powerpoint. (that is, taking a complex problem, and both simplifying and misrepresenting in a powerpoint which shows "progress" happening.) I wasn't a loser in my old career, and I don't want to be a loser in tech. But, it seems like everyone is a loser here. IT/Security is seen as a well-paid janitor; someone you need, but not someone you really care to learn about. Worse, becoming "important" in a company seems to be useful only in so far as you have sway at that particular company. ie, it's a lot of work for some very local, and very useless prestige. And worse, there's no external meaning other than your own status. Why do I care if I have a little fiefdom within company walls? Nothing worthwhile is being accomplished, it's just more sales.
  - _benj 6y ago
randomNumber7 6y ago
A friend of mine just doubled his salary. He wanted to resign and look for an other job, but his company offered him double salary. If your work makes you an important person in the company, you have a strong basis for negotiation. Most people just don't use it...
- ldng 6y ago
  Only if the company realize your important.
- disambiguation 6y ago
  kudos to your friend, but signalling your intent to leave is red flag for management often times companies will opt to pay more as a stop-gap until they find a cheaper replacement
  - bananaface 6y ago
    I honestly think this is a myth propogated by managers to discourage negotiation They know the game, no employee ever is going to stay if they're being paid half their market value. "Commitment" my ass lol. But more to the point in order to replace you they have to pay market value for your job. They can only find someone cheaper if your job is beneath you. Parlaying offers is fine as long as the work they need doing is worth that money. Who are they going to replace you with? Hiring is expensive even if they find a sucker. The only risk is if your market value is higher than they need to pay to get your job done.
    - disambiguation 6y ago
      maybe, i'm not saying employees shouldn't negotiate but there's a lot of ways it can backfire so you might be better of hopping to another company at that point, rather than waiting around to have the rug pulled out from underneath you
      - bananaface 6y ago

jobu 6y ago

In my experience "going above and beyond" tends to get you more work and responsibility for roughly the same pay. I did get the occasional 5% annual raise instead of the standard 2-3% that most of my coworkers received. Even then the raises were usually more dependent on how well the company performed vs how well I performed.

asdff 6y ago
I've noticed this a few times in my career and have had to start slowing myself down at times. If I deliver in a day instead of the expected two for example, I don't get that second day off, I get twice as much work and get paid the same for it. The harder I work, the less I make. If they want me to bust my ass and sacrifice sleep I need to be given hazard pay.
- anon9001 6y ago
  You're right, and as a result I try to work no more than 4 hours a day, preferably less. I take every possible opportunity to extend timelines, create buffer, and reduce scope. I'm highly incentivized to farm as much time as possible, so that's what I do. I try to target obscure projects that I already know how to do, where there's an assumption that nobody really knows how to do it because it's obscure. Complexity and obscurity are great cover. Picking up legacy projects on old tech is a good way to do this. "Oh no, PHP sucks! Nobody's touched this code in years! Not to worry, give me a couple of days I'm sure I'll figure it out." Now my estimate is 3x longer than it would be if I was working in the areas under normal development. I've also got my notifications pretty dialed-in so I never appear absent when someone needs me. I prevent slack from marking me idle. I turn my notifications to a more aggressive setting when I want to take a nap. Nobody knows how long it takes to get a piece of code working, not even other programmers, so who cares if it takes a week instead of a day. Sometimes I keep a local branch that's represents my actual work and a second branch for pushing to the team. If I get in "flow" and want to get something done in a block of many hours, I can drip-feed the commits over a couple of days instead of dropping a PR at 2am and having everyone think I'm free to work on something else tomorrow. With a little shell scripting, I can make commits and push on a timer too, which is sometimes useful if I need to "work late" because everyone is stressed. When something blows up in prod, I put in the extra hours with a good attitude. That helps create the perception that I'm the go-to person for things and a team player, so it's not surprising to anyone if I'm running a little late on a deliverable because I had to drop everything and help with something important (another way to add more buffer). I also try to pair sometimes, especially with new coworkers, so that they can see me working in short bursts. Pairing serves as a psychological anchor that I must work that way all the time. After all, I don't want people thinking I'm lazy. Sometimes mistakes happen and I do get stuck working an 8 hour day, but those mistakes would have been 16 hour days if I wasn't actively avoiding doing as much work as possible. As much as I can stomach it, I try to use the extra time to socialize with coworkers to help raise my visibility and build allies. That's the smart thing to do. In reality, I mostly play video games, do housework, and anxiously wait until work is "over" for the day so I can detach from my notifications. Has tech turned me into a sociopath? Maybe. Do I feel like a prisoner in my own home? Certainly. But if I don't use this strategy, I'll constantly be over-committed, burned out, salty, and missing social connections with coworkers that are more valuable than the actual work. I can't wait until I have enough money to be financially independent and never have to do this nonsense again.