4 ms·

I'm interested to see what Apple comes out with for the higher-end MacBook Pros, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro. I expect to see the M1 used in the iMacs, although ...

by __d 6y ago

I'm interested to see what Apple comes out with for the higher-end MacBook Pros, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro. I expect to see the M1 used in the iMacs, although ... That could be a single higher-end chip, with possible multi-socket support for the Mac Pro? Or it could be two chips: one for the iMac and laptops, and a beefier one for the Pro desktops? Either way, they absolutely need to compete with Zen3 on highly parallel loads. The co-processors (GPU, NPU, etc) are an advantage for general usage, but for many devs, basic CPU core counts and high I/O speeds are the winner. I hope they come up with something that's equivalently good as the M1 is as a low-end laptop chip.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
Laptops are almost always going to weight CPU/Watt fairly strongly. As a developer, I don't give a damn about CPU/Watt, I care only about maxCPU, for a given budget. I don't know why any company would build a laptop that focused on maxCPU. Gaming laptops are perhaps the exception, but Apple has historically not really participated in this subset. >for many devs, basic CPU core counts and high I/O speeds are the winner. bingo!
- 1123581321 6y ago
  As a developer, I find long battery life, while still being able to work, to be quite nice. Power per watt is how this want is accomplished by laptop and OEM parts manufacturers.
- fastball 6y ago
  You're talking a lot about different types of devs, but it sounds to me like you are just "not a laptop user". That's fine. But it really has nothing to do with what type of dev you are. Many more than just webdevs are happy to compile code on a laptop. So yes, these laptops and intro level desktop are not for you.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    I have a Lenovo Y700, which is a CPU beast of a laptop (built mostly for gamers, I believe). It's powerful enough to make working on my project feasible, and indeed when travelling, it is what I use, reasonably happily. But most laptops just can't compile 800k lines of C++ fast enough to make them practical as a development system for that type of software, so the "type of dev" I am really does have something to do with it. And yes, the new Apple laptops are not for me, which was my whole precise point, and (I believe) Gruber's point in that quoted text, however unintentional. I'd take one of the Minis though, just to see how fast it really is :)
    - fastball 6y ago
      Fair enough, but it's probably better to compare the M1 to the CPU in your laptop then, no? Not the threadripper in your desktop. And in that case maybe the M1 IS for you, since I'd be willing to bet it outperforms your existing laptop. Assuming I've found the right computer, my existing (non-M1) Macbook Pro is beefier than your Lenovo, and it gets outperformed by the M1 too[1]. Just seems pretty disingenuous tbh. The argument that you need a seriously beefy threadripper machine to compile your code because you're an 800k LOC C++ developer falls a bit flat when you tell us later that you also compile code on your Lenovo Y700. [1] https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/5150606?baseline=5150675 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/5150606?baselin...
      - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
        > Fair enough, but it's probably better to compare the M1 to the CPU in your laptop then, no? Not the threadripper in your desktop. Although I appreciate the ability as a software developer to "work anywhere", if I was restricted to working only the Y700 I can guarantee you that certain development avenues would happen very differently, if at all. The laptop works fine as a machine to use "when I have to", but if I'm doing "deep" development, it's a PITA and makes me lose focus too much because of the delays in the edit-compile-test cycle. I have absolutely no doubt that the M1 macbooks will easily outperform the Y700, along with most other computers I've ever owned. It remains true, for now, that if you actually care about maxCPU (with a linearly parallelizable workload) (which I do for at least half of my development work), the current M1 machines are not the top of the line. I would tend to agree with anyone who suggests that this will likely change in the near future.

by __d 6y ago

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago

Laptops are almost always going to weight CPU/Watt fairly strongly. As a developer, I don't give a damn about CPU/Watt, I care only about maxCPU, for a given budget. I don't know why any company would build a laptop that focused on maxCPU. Gaming laptops are perhaps the exception, but Apple has historically not really participated in this subset. >for many devs, basic CPU core counts and high I/O speeds are the winner. bingo!

1123581321 6y ago
As a developer, I find long battery life, while still being able to work, to be quite nice. Power per watt is how this want is accomplished by laptop and OEM parts manufacturers.
fastball 6y ago
You're talking a lot about different types of devs, but it sounds to me like you are just "not a laptop user". That's fine. But it really has nothing to do with what type of dev you are. Many more than just webdevs are happy to compile code on a laptop. So yes, these laptops and intro level desktop are not for you.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  I have a Lenovo Y700, which is a CPU beast of a laptop (built mostly for gamers, I believe). It's powerful enough to make working on my project feasible, and indeed when travelling, it is what I use, reasonably happily. But most laptops just can't compile 800k lines of C++ fast enough to make them practical as a development system for that type of software, so the "type of dev" I am really does have something to do with it. And yes, the new Apple laptops are not for me, which was my whole precise point, and (I believe) Gruber's point in that quoted text, however unintentional. I'd take one of the Minis though, just to see how fast it really is :)
  - fastball 6y ago
    Fair enough, but it's probably better to compare the M1 to the CPU in your laptop then, no? Not the threadripper in your desktop. And in that case maybe the M1 IS for you, since I'd be willing to bet it outperforms your existing laptop. Assuming I've found the right computer, my existing (non-M1) Macbook Pro is beefier than your Lenovo, and it gets outperformed by the M1 too[1]. Just seems pretty disingenuous tbh. The argument that you need a seriously beefy threadripper machine to compile your code because you're an 800k LOC C++ developer falls a bit flat when you tell us later that you also compile code on your Lenovo Y700. [1] https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/5150606?baseline=5150675 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/5150606?baselin...
    - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
      > Fair enough, but it's probably better to compare the M1 to the CPU in your laptop then, no? Not the threadripper in your desktop. Although I appreciate the ability as a software developer to "work anywhere", if I was restricted to working only the Y700 I can guarantee you that certain development avenues would happen very differently, if at all. The laptop works fine as a machine to use "when I have to", but if I'm doing "deep" development, it's a PITA and makes me lose focus too much because of the delays in the edit-compile-test cycle. I have absolutely no doubt that the M1 macbooks will easily outperform the Y700, along with most other computers I've ever owned. It remains true, for now, that if you actually care about maxCPU (with a linearly parallelizable workload) (which I do for at least half of my development work), the current M1 machines are not the top of the line. I would tend to agree with anyone who suggests that this will likely change in the near future.