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[Redacted, since I don't want to fuel speculation] It always was (also) about race/gender! That said, I don't know Timnit, and I don't know her specific circu

[Redacted, since I don't want to fuel speculation] It always was (also) about race/gender! That said, I don't know Timnit, and I don't know her specific circumstances... I believe that Google is full of people who wants to solve these problems, but somehow leadership fails to capitalize on that. It might only be a few bad apples in the leadership, but each one wields a huge amount of power (hiring and firing people)...

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I mean, I don't know what "dared" has to do with it. It's unfortunate that we're working off incomplete information here, but that's not our fault - unless there's a recent leak I haven't seen, nobody's made the email available to read.
ramblerman 6y ago
> diversity OKRs These really exist? How do you know when you've reached perfect diversity? I'm honestly curious. Is it based on population distributions? What would be an example diversity OKR
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Typically they're numeric diversity hiring goals, something like "40% of our new hires should be women" or "10% of our new hires should be black". You sometimes see more recruiting-targeted ones (like Gitlab's pledge that 95% of its reachouts would be to underrepresented groups), or less numeric things like efforts to build employee affinity groups.
  - berdario 6y ago
    I haven't paid attention to those (after all, I'm not in the position to positively influence them much), but another example are attrition metrics: https://www.blog.google/perspectives/melonie-parker/how-retention-helps-make-google-more-representative/ https://www.blog.google/perspectives/melonie-parker/how-rete...
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      Oh, I'd never heard this before, but that's a pretty neat idea. Thanks for the link.
- tjalfi 6y ago
  Diversity requirements are a common practice for large law firms. Many Amlaw 500 firms have agreed to the Mansfield rule[0]. > Now in its third iteration, the Mansfield Rule Certification measures whether law firms have affirmatively considered at least 30 percent women, attorneys of color, LGBTQ+ and lawyers with disabilities for leadership and governance roles, equity partner promotions, formal client pitch opportunities, and senior lateral positions. Mansfield rule certification is independently audited on a biannual basis. It's also common for clients to have their own diversity requirements[1]. [0] https://www.diversitylab.com/pilot-projects/mansfield-rule-3-0/ https://www.diversitylab.com/pilot-projects/mansfield-rule-3... [1] https://www.diversitylab.com/knowledge-sharing/clients-push-for-diversity/ https://www.diversitylab.com/knowledge-sharing/clients-push-...
describe24 6y ago
She was in a position of privilege to hire people. Did she hire any black women or men to help with the lack of diversity she refers to?
- berdario 6y ago
  That's mostly true, and I'm not aware of which specific hiring efforts she was involved with... The VP that fired her/"accepted resignation" wrote to her reports about it: https://mobile.twitter.com/alexhanna/status/1334348137616568321 https://mobile.twitter.com/alexhanna/status/1334348137616568... It's frustrating to realize, but unsurprising: the people higher up in the hierarchy will always have more power than those below.
  - describe24 6y ago
    I actually find it quite unethical and potentially rather manipulative to share with your future employees that you fought tooth and nail for them. Essentially implying that they wouldn't be there if it weren't for you and immediately setting it up so that they feel indebted to you... it's chilling to see that tweet tbh

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

I mean, I don't know what "dared" has to do with it. It's unfortunate that we're working off incomplete information here, but that's not our fault - unless there's a recent leak I haven't seen, nobody's made the email available to read.

ramblerman 6y ago

> diversity OKRs These really exist? How do you know when you've reached perfect diversity? I'm honestly curious. Is it based on population distributions? What would be an example diversity OKR

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Typically they're numeric diversity hiring goals, something like "40% of our new hires should be women" or "10% of our new hires should be black". You sometimes see more recruiting-targeted ones (like Gitlab's pledge that 95% of its reachouts would be to underrepresented groups), or less numeric things like efforts to build employee affinity groups.
- berdario 6y ago
  I haven't paid attention to those (after all, I'm not in the position to positively influence them much), but another example are attrition metrics: https://www.blog.google/perspectives/melonie-parker/how-retention-helps-make-google-more-representative/ https://www.blog.google/perspectives/melonie-parker/how-rete...
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Oh, I'd never heard this before, but that's a pretty neat idea. Thanks for the link.
tjalfi 6y ago
Diversity requirements are a common practice for large law firms. Many Amlaw 500 firms have agreed to the Mansfield rule[0]. > Now in its third iteration, the Mansfield Rule Certification measures whether law firms have affirmatively considered at least 30 percent women, attorneys of color, LGBTQ+ and lawyers with disabilities for leadership and governance roles, equity partner promotions, formal client pitch opportunities, and senior lateral positions. Mansfield rule certification is independently audited on a biannual basis. It's also common for clients to have their own diversity requirements[1]. [0] https://www.diversitylab.com/pilot-projects/mansfield-rule-3-0/ https://www.diversitylab.com/pilot-projects/mansfield-rule-3... [1] https://www.diversitylab.com/knowledge-sharing/clients-push-for-diversity/ https://www.diversitylab.com/knowledge-sharing/clients-push-...

describe24 6y ago

She was in a position of privilege to hire people. Did she hire any black women or men to help with the lack of diversity she refers to?

berdario 6y ago
That's mostly true, and I'm not aware of which specific hiring efforts she was involved with... The VP that fired her/"accepted resignation" wrote to her reports about it: https://mobile.twitter.com/alexhanna/status/1334348137616568321 https://mobile.twitter.com/alexhanna/status/1334348137616568... It's frustrating to realize, but unsurprising: the people higher up in the hierarchy will always have more power than those below.
- describe24 6y ago
  I actually find it quite unethical and potentially rather manipulative to share with your future employees that you fought tooth and nail for them. Essentially implying that they wouldn't be there if it weren't for you and immediately setting it up so that they feel indebted to you... it's chilling to see that tweet tbh