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AMD CPU sales skyrocket with Ryzen 5000 launch, leaving Intel in the dust
- einpoklum 6y agoFrom the article: > ... going by sales figures from one major European retailer... German retailer MindFactory... AMD sold 35,000 units ... whereas Intel ... just over 5,000 units So, this story is a a small sample. It might be true generally, I can't say but the title is somewhat misleading.
- eddieoz 6y agoWhat is better? Ryzen 5000 or Core i7-10700K?
- eloff 6y agoThe Ryzen 5900x bests the 10900K on price, power usage, single-threaded performance and multi-threaded performance. https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-ryzen-5900x-vs-intel-10900k/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-ryzen-5900x-vs-i...
- Ingon 6y agoMy biggest gripe with amd is that I need to think about gfx card when buying one. I’d love to have a simple vega 8 in all of their cpus.
- snazz 6y agoI have a hard time believing that most purchasers of high-end consumer CPUs wouldn't use a discrete GPU. What's the use-case you're envisioning where an integrated GPU is a good use of die space?
- kllrnohj 6y agoIt's mostly that there isn't a cheap discrete GPU worth buying. So if you're doing a software development rig, where yes those 12 or 16 cores will be put to good use, you're stuck with spending $100+ on a new GPU that'll spend its entire life idling or scrounging the used markets. The low-end discretes are crap rebranded from 5+ years ago. Which means outdated display connections and bad hardware video decoders.
- dijit 6y agoI think we underestimate (or, overestimate) low end GPUs. a geforce 1030 will be adequately taxed on desktop loads: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gt-1030.c2954 https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gt-1030.c2954 Can get them for 40eur, they barely do 1080p.
- KptMarchewa 6y agoYou can't connect 2+ 4k/60fps monitors to it, which is the only thing I expect from non-gaming GPU, besides being silent.
- Retric 6y agoDual 4k/60fps is still very niche at this point. Last I checked the cheapest option is to just get 2 x 15$ graphics cards. The next low end graphics card refresh is expected in Q1 which should solve this for you.
- kllrnohj 6y agoHow about just dual any monitors? The GT 1030 only has a single HDMI 2.0B port and DVI which I haven't seen on a recent monitor in a while now. So 1 monitor connection from the last 10 years. And no display port connections, which is just wtf.
- Retric 6y agoEven cheap 4K monitors like Samsung UR55 (260$) can handle DVI. You can go DVI to HDMI with either a 5$ adapter or a single DVI to HDMI cable. Only real difference is DVI doesn’t carry sound, but as long as one monitor has sound that’s irrelevant.
- piyh 6y ago90% of low tech corporate business users with bloated spreadsheets and resource hogging antivirus. Anyone doing virtualization/containers.
- asutekku 6y agoThose people are not buying top of the line components though.
- dathinab 6y agoIf you don't need much GPU power then having a GPU on your CPU has some benefits: - No need for a separate component, no hassle finding a "proper" card and buying it (I.e. you only need basically a integrated GPU as a PCI card, but good look getting one, you always can get older "cheap" GPUs but then there is always the chance that because them being older the driver support started to rot.) - Integrated GPUs tend to have reasonable good Linux driver support, at least for newish CPUs for a view years. - No extra fan or other components which can make unwanted noise. - One less component makes trouble shooting easier. Tbh. if AMD would ship something like a large package (not on-die, but chiplets or otherwise packed) combining a 16+ core cpu (+hyperthreading) with a reasonable integrate GPU and ~2GB low latency RAM pro core + 3year waranty I would be quite interested in that. Some companies I worked with before would like that too as far as I can tell.
- Ingon 6y agoI have a few primary use cases in mind: - developer machine (I don't game) - server in the basement - htpc, no gaming (maybe some retro) In all of these (and probably more), a discrete GPU feels like a detriment. More space, more heat, more drivers, more hassle, more money.
- fatboy93 6y agoMos of the workload for my domain involved just a ton of Ram and CPU compute only. Ofcourse there are related subdomains where I need the graphics, but we are talking about 1 in 1000 use case. I just need the gfx card to drive the display only.
- Erwin 6y agoAn interesting feature if you want to just play Windows games once in a while is "PCI passthrough" aka VFIO. With that you can assign a PCI device to be used directly by Windows emulated within a VM, which lets you play game in Windows in emulation with almost no performance penalty. But then you need another graphics card for your main Linux system.
- fgonzag 6y agoA developer's machine doesn't really require a lot of graphic horsepower, as long as it can drive multiple high resolution monitors. I see the use case at least, but I agree that I rather AMD use the die space for a faster CPU and release cheap (sub $100) and low power graphics cards with multiple display outputs.
- kasabali 6y ago> rather AMD use the die space for a faster CPU They don't have to use die space for it. CPU cores are in a separate die already. They can easily slap a Vega 3 IC (which they already have the designs for) alongside the 12nm I/O die. > release cheap (sub $100) and low power graphics cards with multiple display outputs. The problem is they're not doing that, either. Last time they released a "low" end GPU was 5 years ago with RX 550. And it wasn't actually low-end, price-wise (It had $80-100 MSRP and never got cheaper thanks to crypto miners)
- kasabali 6y ago> What's the use-case you're envisioning where an integrated GPU is a good use of die space? These CPUs are using a multi chip design. There'd be no waste of die space. They can slap a small Vega3@12nm die alongside I/O die.
- kllrnohj 6y agoI don't get why AMD refused to sell the Ryzen 4000 APUs directly. They would make a great CPU for some small builds that aren't going to game...
- dathinab 6y agoProbably: - limited production capabilities - maybe not-so-perfect yield - self-competition to their still selling 3000 processors and their son to (theoretically) sell discrete graphics cards To get a chance to chip Ryzen laptops AMD needs to chip a APUs to OEMs similar for the office pre-build desktop marked. So chipping APUs to them is necessary, on the other-hand shipping it to end users is not necessary and in context of limited production capabilities it's a bad idea to ship an additional product to a marked where (in difference to OEMs) it's hard to judge how many will be sold beforehand and where selling them can negatively affect selling other AMD products.
- toast0 6y agoI built two systems recently with the 4650G that I imported via Aliexpress. I paid a little more than MSRP and shipping was slow and nerve racking, but the sysrems work nicely, and no GPU made it fit in a smaller ITX case (heatsink selection is tricky though)
- dhruvdh 6y agoWhile I agree with your sentiment adding a simple Vega 8 to their CPUs is a lot more work and expense than you'd think. They have a thing going where they manufacture Zen core chiplets, and that put together X number of chiplets to make a processor. This is very attractive in terms of cost. As best I know they don't have a GPU chiplet, and so they can't just add one to a CPU. All their processors containing both CPU and GPU are designed like the M1 - one big chip with both. Hopefully this will change soon, and we'll have Navi 2/3 chiplets going around.
- schmorptron 6y agoI wonder if there's a way for motherboard manufacturers to add an integrated GPU to the boards today. I think I remember seeing some nvidia chip on a really old motherboard once, but maybe that was before a lot of the PCIE stuff was moved directly into the CPU die?
- SomeoneFromCA 6y agoSome Chinese frankenboards for Xeons have very crappy videocards onboard.
- toast0 6y agoA lot of mainstream server boards have very crappy videocards onboard too; usually the IPMI chip has something with vga output (and network console).
- pstuart 6y agoThat's an understandable complaint but I believe that using a built-in GPU means it can't use ECC memory.
- fatboy93 6y agoI'm planning to build my workstation and I'm settled on 5950x, but the fact that I need to get a gfx card separately is irritating, given that I'm in India and it adds a ton of money that I could be spending elsewhere!
- kllrnohj 6y agoThe Ryzen 5000 is basically across the board superior to the nearest Intel competitor. That is, 5600X > 10600k, 5700X > 10700k, etc... This is, however, assuming MSRP pricing for both. If the Ryzen is being marked up due to shortage while the Intel is being discounted a significant enough price gap could warrant still going with Intel.
- ben-schaaf 6y agoEven better the 5600x is only very slightly behind the 10700k in multi-core workloads while being ahead on performance and power consumption (and price).
- onli 6y agoWhich Ryzen model exactly? I have some comparison benchmarks in my meta benchmark. Gaming: https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%5B%5D=Intel+Core+i7-10700K&ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+7+5800X https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%... Applications: https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/apps/cpu/compare?ids[]=Intel+Core+i7-10700K&ids[]=AMD+Ryzen+7+5800X https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/apps/cpu/compare?ids[]... (that's a rather small selection though) The 5800X is clearly faster. It's the straightforward comparison, 8 cores/16 threads for both. Surprisingly, the 5600X is still faster - at least in games.
- wmf 6y ago5800X is faster than 10700K and 3700X is better value than 10700K. It's pointless to buy Intel.
- SomeoneFromCA 6y agoI do not need external GPU. I want integrated. So intels are better value to me, keeping in mind that intel MOBOs are alsos cheaper.
- wmf 6y agoA 4750G or 5750G would be good for you but unfortunately you won't be able to buy them.
- SomeoneFromCA 6y agoPrecisely my point.
- eloff 6y agoWhat sales, they hardly had any stock available. I've been trying since the release to get my hands on a Ryzen 5900x and they're sold out everywhere. I'm trying to get on a waiting list for it now, fingers crossed that they can deliver before the new year.
- ben-schaaf 6y agoThe article states as much. Most of the sales aren't from 4th gen ryzen, though the 5600x has had a fair amount of sales.
- drivers99 6y agoI got a 5800X this week from my local MicroCenter to build a new system for Flight Simulator (they are sold out 5800X and 5900X or and 5000 series at all currently). Getting a new video card is also a problem.
- freedomben 6y agoYeah this has been a huge problem for me too. I'm about to just go Intel instead. I hope they ramp up production and don't miss out because I think a strong AMD would be a good thing. I can't wait forever to build my new rig though and I've been using Intel for decades so I have confidence in it. Excited to go AMD but I am building a new rig for a reason (my old one is in its death throes and I use this thing all day almost every day for work).
- eloff 6y agoMy old desktop is still a beast with a 10 core Xeon and 128GB of ram. I'm investing in a new rig to speed up my rust compiles. The current machine is 4 years old now, so I can afford to wait a few months for a build that will last me that long.
- toopok4k3 6y agoDo you actually get real RoI on that thing? Must have cost magnitudes more than normal desktop hardware. Or is this where you just accept that it's worth it purely for tingling the geek inside you?
- katsura 6y agoThere are still no XPS level laptops available with Ryzen CPUs, which makes me so sad. I'd like to upgrade my work machine but I'd prefer not to buy Intel at this time.
- fastest963 6y agoUnfortunately, even if there was, they wouldn't have Thunderbolt so it would limit the external display options. Hopefully when USB4 starts rolling out it'll be a different story.
- wlesieutre 6y agoWhat's the benefit of Thunderbolt displays? I think it's far more common to just do DisplayPort on USB-C alternate mode, or for slightly more specialized screens, the USB-C ones with power delivery. Thunderbolt screens are really unusual in my experience. It's an understandable restriction if you already bought a Thunderbolt screen and need a new computer that's compatible with it, but requiring Thunderbolt case I might get a screen that needs it later is very far down my priority list of computer features.
- fastest963 6y agoI have a dock with two 4k 60hz DisplayPort monitors that runs off TB3. Afaik that's not possible over USB.
- justapassenger 6y agoThis is as clickbait as it gets. AMD is doing extremely well, but you need more data than sales from one random retailer, to claim they’re leaving intel in the dust.
- ghostpepper 6y agoIf this article is to be believed, AMD is outselling Intel by five to one (84% of sales vs 16%). Somehow I think this would be bigger news than one person's post on Reddit (which is the "source" techradar cites as the basis for this entire article)
- geogra4 6y agothat may be true on retail CPU channels, but the vast majority of intel sales are to OEMs
- xbmcuser 6y agoOn Amazon Newegg etc 4 out 5 top selling processors were Amd for the last 6-8 months even before Ryzen 5000 series so in retail Amd 5-1 against intel is not a shock. Even for Oem's a year ago you could barely see an Amd build now days at least half or more are Amd. But the biggest indicator for me that Intel has started hurting is what Intel is saying to the press. If intel sales were not hurting they would not need to do some of the shit they are saying to the press.
- JoshTko 6y agoAs of today there is literally no reason to get an Intel CPU from a performance or price perspective for both single core or multi core use cases. So the only sales Intel would get would be from brand recognition.
- api 6y agoIf they can really crack the PC laptop market, Intel is really in trouble. They lost phones, are losing Mac, are slowly losing cloud/data center/HPC, and if they lose PC that's about it.
- dathinab 6y agoEspecially given that TSMC seems on a good track to go to 3nm nodes. Which supposedly will have something like 2.5x the transistor density then Intels current production mechanism. Even without much other improvements from AMD this can hurt quite a bit. The only think currently beneficial for Intel is that they don't relay on TSMC and in turn are not affected by shortages of nearly everyone else competing for TSMC production capacities. Also they will be less affected if the situation between China and Taiwan escalates. (Through I would argue they didn't lost phones, as they never had any relevant footing in the phone marked at all.)
- api 6y agoIntel had a footing in the very early phone market via StrongARM but they sold that off for some bizarre reason. They also got a little bit of a footing with Atom in the Android market, which is why Android/x86 was a thing, but they didn't seem to take that seriously either.
- dathinab 6y agoThanks, I didn't know. I always thought Android/x86 exists for "special purpose" reasons, including to make it easy to prototype Java Android Apps and similar. (I mean for pure Java Android Apps the difference in code you write between x86 and ARM Android should be very very small. Through it doesn't work out that well once JNI is involved, I guess)
- pmarreck 6y agoAMD and ARM are both eating Intel's lunch lately
- dathinab 6y agoIt's a bit of nit-picking but I would say AMD and Apple. The M1 is a Apple chip not and ARM chip. Sure it uses ARM IPs including the ARM instruction set. But it doesn't really use the ARM provided IP-cores as far as I know. So the M1 is ARM in the sense that AMD chips are x86 ;=) This seems to be a pointless differentiation but the M1 chips are inherently different from other ARM ISA using chips using ARM IP-cores. Probably the main difference is that they have special hardware support for x86 emulation allowing fast x86 emulation on a ARM ISA CPU which is normally not possible otherwise.
- BearOso 6y agoI believe they still license the ARM designs and just make changes on top of them. The GPUs are also very much PowerVR-based, even though they aren’t branded that way any more. The special hardware for emulation was also mostly debunked. Turns out it’s just a really optimized software emulation layer.
- the_lucifer 6y ago> I believe they still license the ARM designs and just make changes on top of them. Nope. They only license the ISA (Apple has an ARM ISA perpetual license). Apple hasn't used ARM designs since the A6 back in 2012.
- the_lucifer 6y ago> But it doesn't really use the ARM provided IP-cores as far as I know. You are correct. Apple has made fully custom chips since 2012. However the graphics still seems to be PowerVR based (ergo the complaints by Imagination Technologies about IP infringement)
- 0x64 6y agoAs far as manufacturing capacity goes, AMD's GPU and CPU manufacturing is incredibly constrained due to the sheer volume of console SoCs they have to pump out. I believe 80% of their N7 wafer capacity at TSMC is currently dedicated to console SoCs, the remaining 20% being dedicated to CPU and GPU dies.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y agoGood problem to have from the perspective of AMD shareholders.
- mox1 6y agoWell...maybe. I'm sure they are leaving some revenue on the table short term here. I'm sure they make more $$ per unit on their Retail CPU's and GPU's.
- _Understated_ 6y agoThere was a video the other day from Gamers Nexus[0] that explained that in the pecking order, the DIY builder/enthusiast community is down at the bottom of the list when it comes to orders... Microsoft and Sony are at the top, followed by the OEMs, then the builders. [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiZHYCN-vw4&t=1562s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiZHYCN-vw4&t=1562s
- pdpi 6y agoBoth Sony and Microsoft were on a PowerPC base for the PS3/Xbox360 generation. Sony was on a MIPS before that. While there's definitely value in knowing you basically own the console market for the next few years, consoles have a much easier time jumping ship on architectures than PCs do, so having such a large portion of your revenue tied to two customers, both of whom are capable of jumping ship quite easily on the 4-5 year timeframe is maybe not great from a strategic point of view.
- selykg 6y ago
- shmerl 6y agoYou can't even buy them though. Sold out everywhere. Hopefully next year they'll be back in stock.
- touristtam 6y agoShould techradar be really on the list of allowed website on HN? The amount of trackers dump on the visitors is mind boggling.
- sandGorgon 6y agoThere's something wrong in this story. The IdeaPad Slim 7 4800u, a laptop that has been called "too good to be true" has been put of stock due to 4800u supply issues for months. It's super hard to find any laptops with high end (comparable to i7/i9) processors. I'm totally unsure where is the stock coming and going. Tinfoil hat tells me that Intel is buying up all the supply!
- distances 6y agoThese charts were only about desktop processor sales. I believe there wasn't a single laptop processor in the data, which makes sense as you don't buy laptop processors individually.
- sandGorgon 6y agoits a proxy. laptop sales outstrip desktop globally. if there is THIS much laptop shortage, I dont think its the case that AMD is choosing to focus on the desktop market versus laptop. I'm seeing a large supply shortage. My bet is that someone is buying up all the supply at an enterprise level. Either it is AWS (with its new AMD servers - https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/amd/ https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/amd/ ). I dont think there's barely enough AMD supply for retail
- scionthefly 6y agoYeah, I've been trying to buy components for a build for the past two weeks. No 5600x (or even 3600). No nvidia cards at decent prices. I'm guessing the etherium 2 launch just drained the whole supply chain.
- kfichter 6y agoEth2 is a Proof-of-Stake system and doesn't rely on the computationally heavy Proof-of-Work, so it's unlikely that Eth2 is a major contributor to a lack of supply.
- justinplouffe 6y agoI’ve managed to get my hands on a 5800x but I think it’s simply because it’s by far the worst value proposition in the new lineup and demand is probably not as high.
- xbmcuser 6y agoAh no computer sales were already at black friday/holiday season levels for the last 4-5 months. Chip supply already couldn't meet the demand and then you got some big generational advances in gpus Amd/nvidia and cpus Amd add new generation consoles so the demand went through the roof. The annual production capacity is for 1000 but the demand now 1500-2000 so the shortages are here to stay for at least another 6 months to a year.
- specto 6y agoWaiting to see what intel releases in response.