3 ms·

My solution to this issue to to hire only former C/C++ video game developers for non-video game software development. Their attention to performance is innate,

My solution to this issue to to hire only former C/C++ video game developers for non-video game software development. Their attention to performance is innate, their attention to critical obscure details is innate, and their desire to write code they are proud is innate. Plus they come with advanced, useful math knowledge. I love former game developers because they did the pop culture dev job, saw it was exploitation, and took their incredibly optimized skills elsewhere.

mattmanser 6y ago
It's good it works for you, but in terms of webapp development, wouldn't they have very little skill at databases? And focus on optimizations that are completely irrelevant for 99% of webapps? I've seen before code where premature, pointless or unclear optimizations used, like dogmatically using stringbuilders or avoiding boxing saving all of a couple of nano-seconds, while the SQL statement is taking 3 seconds to run due to unnecessary sub-selects because the developer doesn't grok set-based logic. Or worse, cursors because they think they need a loop!
- bsenftner 6y ago
  Many game devs have their own fairly advanced web sites, and they professionally know about pre-optimization issues. Also game production environments have been using databases for decades, the game production environments certainly have optimized database operations, and their developers are experienced with this too because building an internationalized multi-language game is far more complex than the game itself.
  - mattmanser 6y ago
    I think we're from different worlds, from your profile it's seems you don't work on e-commerce and sass, which is what I'm referring to. Though admittedly I didn't open with that! Just like I can't imagine the true depth of complexity of game/3d development having dabbled making games in unity, I'm not sure you understand just how complex a sass/enterprise site can get, it's usually issues with actually organising the code that gets you, rather than the code itself. Your example of i18n is actually quite telling, having internationalized a couple of sites that's actually a fairly simple organizational problem in our codebases, comparatively not really complex at all, just tedious.
    - bsenftner 6y ago
      I authored a moderately large (scaled for global use) e-commerce / webapp / webAPI, as well as operated as a tech architect + MBA for a number of web startups. I have a pretty good idea of the complexity, architecture variations, and bottlenecks. My example intended to reference more than i18n, as that only covers the interface. Consider something like an online international university where there is media, but that media varies with 8 different languages, so each and every aspect of any presentation needs to accommodate variable length text fields, left and right and vertical directions of text display, every media clip varies in length due to language, and multi-language users can switch display mode at will. I've done projects like this, over a dozen, and it's quite the challenge.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - mattmanser 6y ago
        I've never heard a positive thought about anyone who describes themselves as an "architect" in the industry.
        bsenftner 6y ago
        When hired by a "tech" startup with no technologists in their team, I call myself an architect to separate myself so they don't think I am going to be writing their code directly. Typically, such "startups" only last a quarter, because they have no experience working in tech, but I can guide them so they don't die in a quarter by providing them with a "how to be a technology developer blueprint" that tends to be received like the holy grail.
wolco2 6y ago
We do this a lot. We take a truth + mix it in with our personal situation and broadcast this information as truth and someone comes around and follows this and finds it to be untrue. Hiring ex C/C++ game developers is fine on the surface. They are smart people and can pick up things quickly. But as a general rule it fails. Taking longer to get things perfect is usually not a tradeoff in the webworld that makes sense. People want simple, reuseble and quickly changable features. Pixel perfect perhaps but never code perfect because things change quickly. Why would you hire for that? Higher salaries for no reason. Learning curve will be harder than one expects Smaller pool. Greater unhappiness. You might hear after writing a game engine that web work is 90% easier but so boring. Hire an ex c/c++ developer because they show an interest in making a change and are willing to put in the work. Don't hire all of them and expect an advantage..
- bsenftner 6y ago
  Who says programmers are responsible for pixel perfection? That's what the graphic artist do. But I get your point of thinking former game developers would be too exacting. That is what hiring filters and management is for, so you hire with reason and guide them to the company's level of production quality. Also, the typical game is significantly larger than any single gamer experiences, and game developers certainly know the tradeoff of "good enough". Plus game production environment is a technological feat in itself too, and it is those type of game developers that contain the most value - not necessarily the game play developers, but the game production pipeline developers.

mattmanser 6y ago

It's good it works for you, but in terms of webapp development, wouldn't they have very little skill at databases? And focus on optimizations that are completely irrelevant for 99% of webapps? I've seen before code where premature, pointless or unclear optimizations used, like dogmatically using stringbuilders or avoiding boxing saving all of a couple of nano-seconds, while the SQL statement is taking 3 seconds to run due to unnecessary sub-selects because the developer doesn't grok set-based logic. Or worse, cursors because they think they need a loop!

bsenftner 6y ago
Many game devs have their own fairly advanced web sites, and they professionally know about pre-optimization issues. Also game production environments have been using databases for decades, the game production environments certainly have optimized database operations, and their developers are experienced with this too because building an internationalized multi-language game is far more complex than the game itself.
- mattmanser 6y ago
  I think we're from different worlds, from your profile it's seems you don't work on e-commerce and sass, which is what I'm referring to. Though admittedly I didn't open with that! Just like I can't imagine the true depth of complexity of game/3d development having dabbled making games in unity, I'm not sure you understand just how complex a sass/enterprise site can get, it's usually issues with actually organising the code that gets you, rather than the code itself. Your example of i18n is actually quite telling, having internationalized a couple of sites that's actually a fairly simple organizational problem in our codebases, comparatively not really complex at all, just tedious.
  - bsenftner 6y ago
    I authored a moderately large (scaled for global use) e-commerce / webapp / webAPI, as well as operated as a tech architect + MBA for a number of web startups. I have a pretty good idea of the complexity, architecture variations, and bottlenecks. My example intended to reference more than i18n, as that only covers the interface. Consider something like an online international university where there is media, but that media varies with 8 different languages, so each and every aspect of any presentation needs to accommodate variable length text fields, left and right and vertical directions of text display, every media clip varies in length due to language, and multi-language users can switch display mode at will. I've done projects like this, over a dozen, and it's quite the challenge.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - mattmanser 6y ago
      I've never heard a positive thought about anyone who describes themselves as an "architect" in the industry.
      - bsenftner 6y ago
        When hired by a "tech" startup with no technologists in their team, I call myself an architect to separate myself so they don't think I am going to be writing their code directly. Typically, such "startups" only last a quarter, because they have no experience working in tech, but I can guide them so they don't die in a quarter by providing them with a "how to be a technology developer blueprint" that tends to be received like the holy grail.

wolco2 6y ago

We do this a lot. We take a truth + mix it in with our personal situation and broadcast this information as truth and someone comes around and follows this and finds it to be untrue. Hiring ex C/C++ game developers is fine on the surface. They are smart people and can pick up things quickly. But as a general rule it fails. Taking longer to get things perfect is usually not a tradeoff in the webworld that makes sense. People want simple, reuseble and quickly changable features. Pixel perfect perhaps but never code perfect because things change quickly. Why would you hire for that? Higher salaries for no reason. Learning curve will be harder than one expects Smaller pool. Greater unhappiness. You might hear after writing a game engine that web work is 90% easier but so boring. Hire an ex c/c++ developer because they show an interest in making a change and are willing to put in the work. Don't hire all of them and expect an advantage..

bsenftner 6y ago
Who says programmers are responsible for pixel perfection? That's what the graphic artist do. But I get your point of thinking former game developers would be too exacting. That is what hiring filters and management is for, so you hire with reason and guide them to the company's level of production quality. Also, the typical game is significantly larger than any single gamer experiences, and game developers certainly know the tradeoff of "good enough". Plus game production environment is a technological feat in itself too, and it is those type of game developers that contain the most value - not necessarily the game play developers, but the game production pipeline developers.