5 ms·

Apple Q3 2008: Macs unstoppable, solid growth down the line

18 points by parenthesis 18y ago

mixmax 18y ago
Goes to show how important design and usability is in an increasingly confusing world.
- mlinsey 18y ago
  And also how there are fewer and fewer killer desktop applications out there - doesn't matter what OS you have when everything new and exciting is on the web, so you may as well choose the one that gives you the nicest experience.
  - tx 18y ago
    What "new and exciting" is on the web? After I dumped Windows, moved to Linux and especially after bought a Mac I actually started enjoying installing and exploring new (to me) software. I can honestly say that these programs changed the way I work or even think about something: ssh, gvim, quicksilver and (oh yes) multi-touch on the latest MBP. So far there is only one online application I use: gmail (dumped POP3 clients long ago) and it isn't particularly exciting. Everything else is the same old online stuff: ever-changing flavors of news reading, talking to people, humor, etc. Just like it was last year, just like it had always been. Always, even before Internet, when I was on FIDO. Apple makes computers fun again: there is a lot of cool stuff to play with. Do you realize that while everyone is drooling over little piece of online advertisement money, Apple is actually milking the desktop? Sometimes I wish PG didn't do Viaweb, but rather did something in consumer software space, YC'd been much more interesting.
    - mlinsey 18y ago
      Keep in mind I'm looking at this from a mainstream consumer angle, not a hacker angle. This also means I have a much, much longer definition of "new". The way I see it, the main killer apps for computers throughout the 1980s and 1990s were business software: Office, Quicken, etc. Web-only killer apps for mainstream audiences: Google, Wikipedia, MySpace/Facebook, Blogger, YouTube, EBay, Flickr. Some of those are Web 1.0, but all the same, I can't think of any home runs for the mainstream audience since the late '90s that have been desktop software. In fact, the last one I can think of is instant messaging clients, which are now moving onto the web. Your "same old online stuff" is the main thing people are thinking of when people say "I'm buying a computer to surf the web".
      - anewaccountname 18y ago
        > In fact, the last one I can think of is instant messaging clients, which are now moving onto the web. Napster was pretty big.
        jimbokun 18y ago
        "Napster was pretty big." Then you could also include iTunes, bringing us back to the Apple discussion.
  - jonknee 18y ago
    At the moment I have 9 desktop applications open and only 1 web application open (and I'm writing it!). Desktop apps certainly have their place.
  - cstejerean 18y ago
    Web applications are certainly important but especially on the Mac there is a nice collection of well designed applications that people actually pay for.
- ars 18y ago
  And yet, I find macs very hard to use. I don't like the single menu bar at the top, and having only one button on the mouse makes it much harder to do stuff. (For example it took quite a while to figure out how to do a disk check on a disk volume.) I wouldn't buy an iPod as soon as I realized you can not edit anything on the iPod itself. It seems to me apple increases usability by removing functionality. (I hear there is no copy/paste on the iPhone?) That's not a tradeoff I appreciate.
  - demallien 18y ago
    Yes, but may I suggest that your difficulties with using a Mac come from the fact that you are not familiar with the platform, rather than any inherent difficulty in using a Mac. Case in point - you say: I don't like the single menu bar at the top, and having only one button on the mouse makes it much harder to do stuff. (For example it took quite a while to figure out how to do a disk check on a disk volume.) and yet on a Mac, you don't right click or middle click a volume's icon to do a disk check. You use the Disk Utility application. I'd go as far as to say that a Disk Check is not a regular thing to do on any well-designed OS, so why would you stick it into a contextual menu for quick access. I've been using Macs since they first came out, which means I was an early adopter for MacOSX. Since 10.2, I think I may have done one disk check - once in 5 years is hardly a justification for having the option in a contextual menu. Another case in point: every Mac shipped in the last few years comes with either a mouse that has 4 buttons, or a trackpad that accepts a two-finger tap as representing a right click. Yet another case in point: There have been many discussions on the one menu bar vs menu bar for each window debate. The best that we can say is that both approaches provide advantages. As someone that uses Gnome, Windows and MacOSX daily, I can honestly say that I don't even notice a difference between the different implementations.
    - ars 18y ago
      Well, what else would you put on the context menu for a volume? And it's more common then that - pull the plug on a device without ejecting it first, and you'll want to check it. There's more stuff that just doesn't work well for me, those two just happened to be things that I noticed earlier. Here's another: I put my USB flash disk in, and it read and read and read (it worked fine yesterday). I have no idea where I would find status info on what it's doing. On linux it's easy: dmesg. (Ok, not obvious, but easy.) On windows it at least makes an icon immediately, and then reads it. On the mac? No clue. There was no indication it even noticed it except the light on it flashed constantly. Mac's just don't think like me. I fight with the interface whenever I use it. It tries to hide the internals of the computer to make it easier to use. But for me that doesn't work - I understand the computer and I want to see what's it's actually doing, not the sanitized version. Another example: in list view if you double click on a name it tries to rename it. You have to click on the picture. But I don't like that - if I want to rename, I'll use the menu and pick it (or make it be triple click). But they can't do that - it has to be easy for people to figure out how to rename, but at the expense of being able to launch something by clicking on the name. Even if I would get used to a mac I'd find zero benefits. I don't need easy to use, I need discoverability and verbosity. Give me every single option, and lots of text.

18 points by parenthesis 18y ago

mixmax 18y ago

Goes to show how important design and usability is in an increasingly confusing world.

mlinsey 18y ago
And also how there are fewer and fewer killer desktop applications out there - doesn't matter what OS you have when everything new and exciting is on the web, so you may as well choose the one that gives you the nicest experience.
- tx 18y ago
  What "new and exciting" is on the web? After I dumped Windows, moved to Linux and especially after bought a Mac I actually started enjoying installing and exploring new (to me) software. I can honestly say that these programs changed the way I work or even think about something: ssh, gvim, quicksilver and (oh yes) multi-touch on the latest MBP. So far there is only one online application I use: gmail (dumped POP3 clients long ago) and it isn't particularly exciting. Everything else is the same old online stuff: ever-changing flavors of news reading, talking to people, humor, etc. Just like it was last year, just like it had always been. Always, even before Internet, when I was on FIDO. Apple makes computers fun again: there is a lot of cool stuff to play with. Do you realize that while everyone is drooling over little piece of online advertisement money, Apple is actually milking the desktop? Sometimes I wish PG didn't do Viaweb, but rather did something in consumer software space, YC'd been much more interesting.
  - mlinsey 18y ago
    Keep in mind I'm looking at this from a mainstream consumer angle, not a hacker angle. This also means I have a much, much longer definition of "new". The way I see it, the main killer apps for computers throughout the 1980s and 1990s were business software: Office, Quicken, etc. Web-only killer apps for mainstream audiences: Google, Wikipedia, MySpace/Facebook, Blogger, YouTube, EBay, Flickr. Some of those are Web 1.0, but all the same, I can't think of any home runs for the mainstream audience since the late '90s that have been desktop software. In fact, the last one I can think of is instant messaging clients, which are now moving onto the web. Your "same old online stuff" is the main thing people are thinking of when people say "I'm buying a computer to surf the web".
    - anewaccountname 18y ago
      > In fact, the last one I can think of is instant messaging clients, which are now moving onto the web. Napster was pretty big.
      - jimbokun 18y ago
        "Napster was pretty big." Then you could also include iTunes, bringing us back to the Apple discussion.
- jonknee 18y ago
  At the moment I have 9 desktop applications open and only 1 web application open (and I'm writing it!). Desktop apps certainly have their place.
- cstejerean 18y ago
  Web applications are certainly important but especially on the Mac there is a nice collection of well designed applications that people actually pay for.
ars 18y ago
And yet, I find macs very hard to use. I don't like the single menu bar at the top, and having only one button on the mouse makes it much harder to do stuff. (For example it took quite a while to figure out how to do a disk check on a disk volume.) I wouldn't buy an iPod as soon as I realized you can not edit anything on the iPod itself. It seems to me apple increases usability by removing functionality. (I hear there is no copy/paste on the iPhone?) That's not a tradeoff I appreciate.
- demallien 18y ago
  Yes, but may I suggest that your difficulties with using a Mac come from the fact that you are not familiar with the platform, rather than any inherent difficulty in using a Mac. Case in point - you say: I don't like the single menu bar at the top, and having only one button on the mouse makes it much harder to do stuff. (For example it took quite a while to figure out how to do a disk check on a disk volume.) and yet on a Mac, you don't right click or middle click a volume's icon to do a disk check. You use the Disk Utility application. I'd go as far as to say that a Disk Check is not a regular thing to do on any well-designed OS, so why would you stick it into a contextual menu for quick access. I've been using Macs since they first came out, which means I was an early adopter for MacOSX. Since 10.2, I think I may have done one disk check - once in 5 years is hardly a justification for having the option in a contextual menu. Another case in point: every Mac shipped in the last few years comes with either a mouse that has 4 buttons, or a trackpad that accepts a two-finger tap as representing a right click. Yet another case in point: There have been many discussions on the one menu bar vs menu bar for each window debate. The best that we can say is that both approaches provide advantages. As someone that uses Gnome, Windows and MacOSX daily, I can honestly say that I don't even notice a difference between the different implementations.
  - ars 18y ago
    Well, what else would you put on the context menu for a volume? And it's more common then that - pull the plug on a device without ejecting it first, and you'll want to check it. There's more stuff that just doesn't work well for me, those two just happened to be things that I noticed earlier. Here's another: I put my USB flash disk in, and it read and read and read (it worked fine yesterday). I have no idea where I would find status info on what it's doing. On linux it's easy: dmesg. (Ok, not obvious, but easy.) On windows it at least makes an icon immediately, and then reads it. On the mac? No clue. There was no indication it even noticed it except the light on it flashed constantly. Mac's just don't think like me. I fight with the interface whenever I use it. It tries to hide the internals of the computer to make it easier to use. But for me that doesn't work - I understand the computer and I want to see what's it's actually doing, not the sanitized version. Another example: in list view if you double click on a name it tries to rename it. You have to click on the picture. But I don't like that - if I want to rename, I'll use the menu and pick it (or make it be triple click). But they can't do that - it has to be easy for people to figure out how to rename, but at the expense of being able to launch something by clicking on the name. Even if I would get used to a mac I'd find zero benefits. I don't need easy to use, I need discoverability and verbosity. Give me every single option, and lots of text.