4 ms·

HN has a real problem with both voting-based and flag-based censorship. Graying out comments has led to a weaponization of the downvote. One of the few things

by timr 6y ago

HN has a real problem with both voting-based and flag-based censorship. Graying out comments has led to a weaponization of the downvote. One of the few things I like about reddit is that downvotes don't hide comments (immediately, anyway).

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
They don't here. Turn on "showdead" in your profile.
- freedomben 6y ago
  Showdead is a killer feature IMHO. I love it.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
I get downvoted lots and lots but it’s not censorship. If you don’t like your audience here, go find or build it elsewhere. No one is stopping you. But you’re not entitled to this one.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Exactly. This is the home of the HN community. They get to choose the mode of engagement. I, too, am frequently downvoted and often flagged when communicating civilly. This is, imho, just fine.
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    I’ve only been flagged once (that I recall) and I definitely wished I had some explanation. But I don’t feel suppressed by not having it. Just baffled. But then I’m baffled by a lot of what gets me downvoted too, and it’s... well, a heterogeneous community where I have some outlier opinions so I just carry on.
- timr 6y ago
  Sure. If you don't like your opinions being hidden, you just have to go build your own community of millions of people. Simple. And of course, nobody should be concerned that the communication channels for ~all forms of public debate are privately owned. Look: I don't mind being downvoted. I don't care about karma points. But the HN system is one where downvoted comments are hidden, which is itself a form of censorship. Marginal opinions are routinely buried -- and I'm not even talking about my own. I upvote unfairly grayed-out comments that I disagree with, all the time. It is deeply ironic, for example, that my parent comment about censorship is now hidden at the bottom of the page, in light gray, because one person downvoted it.
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    > Sure. If you don't like your opinions being hidden, you just have to go build your own community of millions of people. Simple. No less simple than someone building it for you while you reject the idea that they might have conditions on sharing it with you. > I don't mind being downvoted. I don't care about karma points. But the HN system is one where downvoted comments are hidden, which is itself a form of censorship. Moderating a private property isn’t censorship. It’s not. If HN or FB or whatever controlled your access to basic internet protocols sure. That would be dystopian and would be an example of censorship. You’re just failing to meet social expectations in a community you’re willingly participating in, and experiencing the consequences of that. It’s no more censorship than not being invited to someone’s birthday party. > It is deeply ironic, for example, that my parent comment about censorship is now hidden at the bottom of the page, in light gray, because one person downvoted it. That... isn’t how the algorithm works, and I’ve been downvoted enough to know it. You’ve likely gotten a lot of upvotes and downvotes leaving an average of -1 (which is -2 btw, you start at +1), but the volume of downvotes is much greater than average. I don’t know the precise formula but I know with certainty that one downvote doesn’t get me greyed.
    - timr 6y ago
      "Moderating a private property isn’t censorship. It’s not." Yeah, I get it. That's why I said what I said about all public debate being moved to private property. "I don’t know the precise formula but I know with certainty that one downvote doesn’t get me greyed." I don't know, and don't care. The graying out of comments happens quickly, and people use it to hide comments they don't like.

by timr 6y ago

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

They don't here. Turn on "showdead" in your profile.

freedomben 6y ago
Showdead is a killer feature IMHO. I love it.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

I get downvoted lots and lots but it’s not censorship. If you don’t like your audience here, go find or build it elsewhere. No one is stopping you. But you’re not entitled to this one.

renewiltord 6y ago
Exactly. This is the home of the HN community. They get to choose the mode of engagement. I, too, am frequently downvoted and often flagged when communicating civilly. This is, imho, just fine.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  I’ve only been flagged once (that I recall) and I definitely wished I had some explanation. But I don’t feel suppressed by not having it. Just baffled. But then I’m baffled by a lot of what gets me downvoted too, and it’s... well, a heterogeneous community where I have some outlier opinions so I just carry on.
timr 6y ago
Sure. If you don't like your opinions being hidden, you just have to go build your own community of millions of people. Simple. And of course, nobody should be concerned that the communication channels for ~all forms of public debate are privately owned. Look: I don't mind being downvoted. I don't care about karma points. But the HN system is one where downvoted comments are hidden, which is itself a form of censorship. Marginal opinions are routinely buried -- and I'm not even talking about my own. I upvote unfairly grayed-out comments that I disagree with, all the time. It is deeply ironic, for example, that my parent comment about censorship is now hidden at the bottom of the page, in light gray, because one person downvoted it.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  > Sure. If you don't like your opinions being hidden, you just have to go build your own community of millions of people. Simple. No less simple than someone building it for you while you reject the idea that they might have conditions on sharing it with you. > I don't mind being downvoted. I don't care about karma points. But the HN system is one where downvoted comments are hidden, which is itself a form of censorship. Moderating a private property isn’t censorship. It’s not. If HN or FB or whatever controlled your access to basic internet protocols sure. That would be dystopian and would be an example of censorship. You’re just failing to meet social expectations in a community you’re willingly participating in, and experiencing the consequences of that. It’s no more censorship than not being invited to someone’s birthday party. > It is deeply ironic, for example, that my parent comment about censorship is now hidden at the bottom of the page, in light gray, because one person downvoted it. That... isn’t how the algorithm works, and I’ve been downvoted enough to know it. You’ve likely gotten a lot of upvotes and downvotes leaving an average of -1 (which is -2 btw, you start at +1), but the volume of downvotes is much greater than average. I don’t know the precise formula but I know with certainty that one downvote doesn’t get me greyed.
  - timr 6y ago
    "Moderating a private property isn’t censorship. It’s not." Yeah, I get it. That's why I said what I said about all public debate being moved to private property. "I don’t know the precise formula but I know with certainty that one downvote doesn’t get me greyed." I don't know, and don't care. The graying out of comments happens quickly, and people use it to hide comments they don't like.