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So instead of making their system less-privacy-invasive (which I have seen no indication should be impossible wrt the APIs mentioned here), they just shut down

by 3np 6y ago

So instead of making their system less-privacy-invasive (which I have seen no indication should be impossible wrt the APIs mentioned here), they just shut down services where this is regulated. Not surprised, but there's no way to spin this in a way that doesn't make Facebook look shady and bad. So much for "working with regulators".

bzb6 6y ago
What makes you think the APIs could be changed to comply? Maybe there’s no way to implement what they used to do legally.
- asutekku 6y ago
  You can see what API calls do not work on the listed page. Most of those should not require any privacy breaking features so it should absolutely be possible to implement them legally. They just don't like to do so.
  - red_admiral 6y ago
    This is just speculation on my part, but if facebook implemented these API calls in a privacy-respecting way for the EU market, then it would be very easy for the US government to suggest that the already-existing privacy-respecting version should be used in their jurisdiction too. Maybe that's what facebook wants to avoid?
matthewmacleod 6y ago
It does say: "We are currently working to restore these features and will continue to update this document and the changelog section with the details as they are available." Doesn't this suggest that they aren't being shut-down?
- diggan 6y ago
  It might be temporary, but removing features "temporary" certainly sounds like being shut down, but temporary. Interesting that Facebook and everyone else has been knowing that these rules have been coming for years, they still haven't been ready. Certainly reads like they haven't been working with anyone, and their last resort is now to temporary shut down the features they were unable to fix, during these years.
  - oblio 6y ago
    As the other commenters have said about GDPR, it could also be polite-speak for "never" (or "until we can lobby our way to new laws").
  - fatnoah 6y ago
    >Interesting that Facebook and everyone else has been knowing that these rules have been coming for years, they still haven't been ready. There's being ready, but I think there's also some wariness that the penalties for non-compliance are so severe that it's not worth taking the risk. When GDPR was first being proposed, I was at a startup in the messaging space, and we were in the midst of expanding into European markets. The level of effort to ensure compliance wasn't that high, but without established case law and a history of enforcement actions, it was deemed too much of a risk so we pulled back.
- the8472 6y ago
  Various websites not available in europe are saying stuff like > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. and have done so for years. Facebook's "currently" may be worth as much as the "engaged" and "committed" of those sites.
- theobeers 6y ago
  That reminds me of the many local and regional newspapers in the US that are owned by Tribune Publishing, and whose websites have been inaccessible in Europe since the GDPR went into effect. You'll be met with the following disclaimer: "Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism." Ok, I'm sure it'll be any day now…
- Lammy 6y ago
  It's PR-speak to make the regulators look like the bad guys who took something from you that always-benevolent FB is working on your behalf to restore.
that_guy_iain 6y ago
To honest, I think this is probably the begining of the end for Facebook. I foresee that they'll be forced to reduce services in Europe repeatedly. It'll be interesting to see what takes its place.
- trumpeta 6y ago
  they'll end up preying on the people in 3rd world countries that don't have strong privacy legislation. Same way as Phillip Morris did with cigarettes...
  - oblio 6y ago
    It's still good if you minimize their impact. A similar example is sending garbage to China. At a certain point China stopped accepting it. Hopefully soon others will do the same and recycling will be tackled correctly.
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    Good luck for them in competing with somebody that has the network effect of being available everywhere.
    - somedude895 6y ago
      The network effects has its limits. Messengers and social media platforms have so far resisted a winner-takes-all situation. Since social networks are still more often than not rooted within geographical boundaries, it's possible for competitors to coexist on a global level.
- grishka 6y ago
  It'll be definitely interesting to see what Facebook is going to do if one of those bills that would require it to federate and/or provide an open API gets passed.
- paganel 6y ago
  I don’t see FB shutting down a service like Watsapp in Europe in the next decade at least, first of all because countless European politicians use it, to say nothing of the hundreds of millions of Europeans who use it regularly. There’s nothing else comparable that can take its place.

by 3np 6y ago

bzb6 6y ago

What makes you think the APIs could be changed to comply? Maybe there’s no way to implement what they used to do legally.

asutekku 6y ago
You can see what API calls do not work on the listed page. Most of those should not require any privacy breaking features so it should absolutely be possible to implement them legally. They just don't like to do so.
- red_admiral 6y ago
  This is just speculation on my part, but if facebook implemented these API calls in a privacy-respecting way for the EU market, then it would be very easy for the US government to suggest that the already-existing privacy-respecting version should be used in their jurisdiction too. Maybe that's what facebook wants to avoid?

matthewmacleod 6y ago

It does say: "We are currently working to restore these features and will continue to update this document and the changelog section with the details as they are available." Doesn't this suggest that they aren't being shut-down?

diggan 6y ago
It might be temporary, but removing features "temporary" certainly sounds like being shut down, but temporary. Interesting that Facebook and everyone else has been knowing that these rules have been coming for years, they still haven't been ready. Certainly reads like they haven't been working with anyone, and their last resort is now to temporary shut down the features they were unable to fix, during these years.
- oblio 6y ago
  As the other commenters have said about GDPR, it could also be polite-speak for "never" (or "until we can lobby our way to new laws").
- fatnoah 6y ago
  >Interesting that Facebook and everyone else has been knowing that these rules have been coming for years, they still haven't been ready. There's being ready, but I think there's also some wariness that the penalties for non-compliance are so severe that it's not worth taking the risk. When GDPR was first being proposed, I was at a startup in the messaging space, and we were in the midst of expanding into European markets. The level of effort to ensure compliance wasn't that high, but without established case law and a history of enforcement actions, it was deemed too much of a risk so we pulled back.
the8472 6y ago
Various websites not available in europe are saying stuff like > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. and have done so for years. Facebook's "currently" may be worth as much as the "engaged" and "committed" of those sites.
theobeers 6y ago
That reminds me of the many local and regional newspapers in the US that are owned by Tribune Publishing, and whose websites have been inaccessible in Europe since the GDPR went into effect. You'll be met with the following disclaimer: "Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism." Ok, I'm sure it'll be any day now…
Lammy 6y ago
It's PR-speak to make the regulators look like the bad guys who took something from you that always-benevolent FB is working on your behalf to restore.

that_guy_iain 6y ago

To honest, I think this is probably the begining of the end for Facebook. I foresee that they'll be forced to reduce services in Europe repeatedly. It'll be interesting to see what takes its place.

trumpeta 6y ago
they'll end up preying on the people in 3rd world countries that don't have strong privacy legislation. Same way as Phillip Morris did with cigarettes...
- oblio 6y ago
  It's still good if you minimize their impact. A similar example is sending garbage to China. At a certain point China stopped accepting it. Hopefully soon others will do the same and recycling will be tackled correctly.
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  Good luck for them in competing with somebody that has the network effect of being available everywhere.
  - somedude895 6y ago
    The network effects has its limits. Messengers and social media platforms have so far resisted a winner-takes-all situation. Since social networks are still more often than not rooted within geographical boundaries, it's possible for competitors to coexist on a global level.
grishka 6y ago
It'll be definitely interesting to see what Facebook is going to do if one of those bills that would require it to federate and/or provide an open API gets passed.
paganel 6y ago
I don’t see FB shutting down a service like Watsapp in Europe in the next decade at least, first of all because countless European politicians use it, to say nothing of the hundreds of millions of Europeans who use it regularly. There’s nothing else comparable that can take its place.