3 ms·

What nonsense. Nobody is forced to use Twitter, Facebook or Instagram. Blame the people who keep using them, not the creators of those networks.

foota 6y ago
As others have pointed out, there are benefits to Facebook et al, both individually and collectively (though some people may ignore the latter) however there's also great harm being done through these platforms, from the creation of echo chambers to data collection (personally, I'm more worried about the former, I don't really care about privacy wrt getting ads sent to me). So I don't blame Facebook for building a platform people want to use, but I do blame them for the damage it's causing. People that care strongly about the open web (not really me, honestly, as long as it exists I'm content, imo people don't have to use it) likely feel similarly.
- kungito 6y ago
  I mean let's be honest, there existed echo chambers in the first villages people founded. When I visit my relatives who live in villages, trust me, there is plenty of fascist echo chambers and they don't need internet to participate. The online platforms aren't a cause, they are just facilitating it. I believe it really reframes the problem
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    I don't think fascism is a real problem on the net and I know some popular places they are around. It got some reactionary traction in the last years, but they were derided and made fun off for years before and they never made significant inroads. What really helps and has helped them is putting people und general suspicion and restricting user rights. That massively helps fascists. The increased content control is a major success fascists had achieved the last years even while not in power.
    - mercurysmessage 6y ago
      QAnon is a fascist movement and has spread like wildfire through websites like Facebook. I know people in other countries who believe it.
    - foota 6y ago
      How is the servife providers choosing to restrict content furthering fascism? Fascism is explicitly about state control. Twitter banning nazis isn't fascism. I would maybe agree that things like restrictions on repair and copyright restrictions are some kind of corporatist fascism in that they are furthering state control, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.
J-dawg 6y ago
I think there's an argument for breaking up Facebook for antitrust reasons. I used to be fine with the "Just don't use Facebook" argument. I quit it myself several years ago. But recently I've found myself being genuinely inconvenienced by not being on Facebook. My gym for example, uses a Facebook group as its main forum. Several sports clubs and businesses I use now have a Facebook page as their main "web site". Friends tell me that Facebook marketplace is overtaking Gumtree as the best place to buy and sell. I am missing out on participating in all of these groups. I don't blame any of these organisations for opting to use Facebook. They're all too small to employ anyone to maintain a website. Facebook no doubt gives them a great CMS and makes everything easy. But it seems completely wrong that I have to submit to Facebook, with its real name policy and abuse of my data, to participate in these groups. The markets for startups in any of these areas must be hugely stifled by Facebook's monopoly. Who would be brave enough to start a business building a CMS for gyms at this point? I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how this is different from Microsoft bundling a browser with an OS. In many ways it's worse.
- socialentity 6y ago
  "Because it inconveniences you" is not a good reason to break up companies, imo. Maybe those small businesses will learn that Facebook is not the best option. There are other cheap ways to get a web presence. Facebook is not even a web presence, as it is a walled garden. Also, how would you even break it up? A separate "events platform" would be pretty useless without the Facebook social graph. What would be the point? Just plain disallow Facebook to have useful features, making things more difficult for people?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bluntfang 6y ago
You do know that creators of the network also created positive feedback loops to get people addicted, right?
- socialentity 6y ago
  It's not addictive like heroine or something like that.

foota 6y ago

As others have pointed out, there are benefits to Facebook et al, both individually and collectively (though some people may ignore the latter) however there's also great harm being done through these platforms, from the creation of echo chambers to data collection (personally, I'm more worried about the former, I don't really care about privacy wrt getting ads sent to me). So I don't blame Facebook for building a platform people want to use, but I do blame them for the damage it's causing. People that care strongly about the open web (not really me, honestly, as long as it exists I'm content, imo people don't have to use it) likely feel similarly.

kungito 6y ago
I mean let's be honest, there existed echo chambers in the first villages people founded. When I visit my relatives who live in villages, trust me, there is plenty of fascist echo chambers and they don't need internet to participate. The online platforms aren't a cause, they are just facilitating it. I believe it really reframes the problem
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  I don't think fascism is a real problem on the net and I know some popular places they are around. It got some reactionary traction in the last years, but they were derided and made fun off for years before and they never made significant inroads. What really helps and has helped them is putting people und general suspicion and restricting user rights. That massively helps fascists. The increased content control is a major success fascists had achieved the last years even while not in power.
  - mercurysmessage 6y ago
    QAnon is a fascist movement and has spread like wildfire through websites like Facebook. I know people in other countries who believe it.
  - foota 6y ago
    How is the servife providers choosing to restrict content furthering fascism? Fascism is explicitly about state control. Twitter banning nazis isn't fascism. I would maybe agree that things like restrictions on repair and copyright restrictions are some kind of corporatist fascism in that they are furthering state control, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

J-dawg 6y ago

I think there's an argument for breaking up Facebook for antitrust reasons. I used to be fine with the "Just don't use Facebook" argument. I quit it myself several years ago. But recently I've found myself being genuinely inconvenienced by not being on Facebook. My gym for example, uses a Facebook group as its main forum. Several sports clubs and businesses I use now have a Facebook page as their main "web site". Friends tell me that Facebook marketplace is overtaking Gumtree as the best place to buy and sell. I am missing out on participating in all of these groups. I don't blame any of these organisations for opting to use Facebook. They're all too small to employ anyone to maintain a website. Facebook no doubt gives them a great CMS and makes everything easy. But it seems completely wrong that I have to submit to Facebook, with its real name policy and abuse of my data, to participate in these groups. The markets for startups in any of these areas must be hugely stifled by Facebook's monopoly. Who would be brave enough to start a business building a CMS for gyms at this point? I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how this is different from Microsoft bundling a browser with an OS. In many ways it's worse.

socialentity 6y ago
"Because it inconveniences you" is not a good reason to break up companies, imo. Maybe those small businesses will learn that Facebook is not the best option. There are other cheap ways to get a web presence. Facebook is not even a web presence, as it is a walled garden. Also, how would you even break it up? A separate "events platform" would be pretty useless without the Facebook social graph. What would be the point? Just plain disallow Facebook to have useful features, making things more difficult for people?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

bluntfang 6y ago

You do know that creators of the network also created positive feedback loops to get people addicted, right?

socialentity 6y ago
It's not addictive like heroine or something like that.