6 ms·

I’m not sure what line of work you are in, but I will humbly suggest that you probably have not worked with a good sales person. Good sales people (perhaps mos

by csa 6y ago

I’m not sure what line of work you are in, but I will humbly suggest that you probably have not worked with a good sales person. Good sales people (perhaps mostly from good orgs) are typically very welcomed into an org because they will help solve problems or point you to solutions if they don’t have it themselves. These are the sales people I know who make the most money, and it’s fairly effortless for them since they know their business well.

raiyu 6y ago
I get the general premise but in reality when it comes to software or hardware sales I’ve never experienced that personally. Cofounder of Digitalocean, so I’ve gotten pitched by hundreds of sales folks on the tech side of things. On the consumer side I did happen upon one or two great car sales folks that followed that model of a great sales person.
- npsomaratna 6y ago
  Question: how do you guys structure this at DO?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - raiyu 6y ago
    Don’t get me wrong I get that many companies do this and it’s the industry norm when it comes to enterprise sales but on average I think the incentive structure leads to a number of issues and sure there can be stand out sales folks that aren’t selling but really aligning with the customer, but can’t go based on exceptions, have to look at the average sales person to see what kind of an individual that incentive structure creates. I also think you can augment the customer success team to take care of that especially if you have a wide variety of customer profiles. There is massive potential inside of companies customer support organizations that go unrealized. They know the product, the customers, the bugs, they are the front line for down time, or bad deploys by engineering. I think the sales model is an old model that will eventually get up ended. Customer Support > customer success > inbound leads And if you do customer success right the customer will naturally grow with you or you find the limitations of the platform and that’s critical product feedback. Btw, your description of a great sales person also works equally well for a great customer success individual.
    - cjblomqvist 6y ago
      I'm not sure I follow. How do you approach sales at DO? Do you do sales the traditional way using customer success people or how do you bring in new customers?
    - molsongolden 6y ago
      Sometimes being too close to the product can hurt the person’s ability to make sales.
    - antupis 6y ago
      I think this concept is pretty similar what Peter Thiel suggested at Zero To One “Like acting, sales works best when hidden. This explains why almost everyone whose job involves distribution— whether they're in sales, marketing, or advertising— has a job title that has nothing to do with those things. People who sell advertising are called 'account executives.' People who sell customers work in 'business development.' People who sell companies are 'investment bankers.' And people who sell themselves are called 'politicians.' There's a reason for these redescriptions: none of us wants to be reminded when we're being sold.”
    - treis 6y ago
      The problem, I think, is pricing. If you have a reasonably good way to charge bigger customers more automatically then you can go with a low touch sales process. If you don't (and virtually every product doesn't) you have to do value based pricing which pretty necessarily entails sales people.
    - hobs 6y ago
      Be careful - I have seen many companies think this is the way and what happens is they lose all the dedicated customer support peeps because the "sales-y" customer reps schmooze with clients instead of solving problems; and frankly some clients love that. Then you start seeing sales goals for the account managers, and a year later the entire team that used to be helping customers is really spending most of their time trying to upsell them on things they barely need - because its what their bosses bonus is based on.
    - Natsu 6y ago
tweetle_beetle 6y ago
Like in any trade, I'm sure that the best are great at what they do, but I suspect I'm not alone in finding that the vast majority of my interactions have not been with a good sales person (and maybe by your definition not with good orgs either). I've never been told that I might be better off going elsewhere. Many times I've been told that whatever problem I describe, they can handle it, or my problem isn't what I think it is and they can handle it. I feel like short term incentivisation tends to promote dishonesty - most organisations don't seem to have feedback mechanisms to deal with a poor sales process. And like most trades, I'm sure the answer is to take it more seriously, train better, invest more in the people, etc. But the reality is for most sales jobs, as a former colleague once told me, you're never more than 2 missed targets away from being let go.
- brobdingnagians 6y ago
  I've had hardware stores tell me where I could get the solution that I needed at their competitor, because they didn't have it. Those are the interactions I have been most impressed with from any organization. It makes me want to buy stuff from them just to reward their honesty and helpfulness. I must admit that I haven't really had that experience from many tech companies or "professional" companies.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > But the reality is for most sales jobs, as a former colleague once told me, you're never more than 2 missed targets away from being let go. That sounds... fair? It’s like having a programmer that cannot program. If your job is literally to sell, and you’re not doing it? I guess it doesn’t have to be black and white as long as you bring in more than you cost though.
  - watwut 6y ago
    I can tell with certainty is that I was never ever under such pressure regarding my programming ability. I was never close to being fired and I seen only one company where people were often close to being fired due to temporary slip. Even under pressure, programmers don't really get to have hard to reach targets else they will be fired.
necheffa 6y ago
Just about every sales rep I've interacted with couldn't solve their way out of a wet cardboard box. Instead, they'll sing whatever lie they think will get you to buy a product, up to and including promising functionality that later when you get the lead engineer on the phone you are informed "it was never designed to do that".

by csa 6y ago

raiyu 6y ago

I get the general premise but in reality when it comes to software or hardware sales I’ve never experienced that personally. Cofounder of Digitalocean, so I’ve gotten pitched by hundreds of sales folks on the tech side of things. On the consumer side I did happen upon one or two great car sales folks that followed that model of a great sales person.

npsomaratna 6y ago
Question: how do you guys structure this at DO?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- raiyu 6y ago
  Don’t get me wrong I get that many companies do this and it’s the industry norm when it comes to enterprise sales but on average I think the incentive structure leads to a number of issues and sure there can be stand out sales folks that aren’t selling but really aligning with the customer, but can’t go based on exceptions, have to look at the average sales person to see what kind of an individual that incentive structure creates. I also think you can augment the customer success team to take care of that especially if you have a wide variety of customer profiles. There is massive potential inside of companies customer support organizations that go unrealized. They know the product, the customers, the bugs, they are the front line for down time, or bad deploys by engineering. I think the sales model is an old model that will eventually get up ended. Customer Support > customer success > inbound leads And if you do customer success right the customer will naturally grow with you or you find the limitations of the platform and that’s critical product feedback. Btw, your description of a great sales person also works equally well for a great customer success individual.
  - cjblomqvist 6y ago
    I'm not sure I follow. How do you approach sales at DO? Do you do sales the traditional way using customer success people or how do you bring in new customers?
  - molsongolden 6y ago
    Sometimes being too close to the product can hurt the person’s ability to make sales.
  - antupis 6y ago
    I think this concept is pretty similar what Peter Thiel suggested at Zero To One “Like acting, sales works best when hidden. This explains why almost everyone whose job involves distribution— whether they're in sales, marketing, or advertising— has a job title that has nothing to do with those things. People who sell advertising are called 'account executives.' People who sell customers work in 'business development.' People who sell companies are 'investment bankers.' And people who sell themselves are called 'politicians.' There's a reason for these redescriptions: none of us wants to be reminded when we're being sold.”
  - treis 6y ago
    The problem, I think, is pricing. If you have a reasonably good way to charge bigger customers more automatically then you can go with a low touch sales process. If you don't (and virtually every product doesn't) you have to do value based pricing which pretty necessarily entails sales people.
  - hobs 6y ago
    Be careful - I have seen many companies think this is the way and what happens is they lose all the dedicated customer support peeps because the "sales-y" customer reps schmooze with clients instead of solving problems; and frankly some clients love that. Then you start seeing sales goals for the account managers, and a year later the entire team that used to be helping customers is really spending most of their time trying to upsell them on things they barely need - because its what their bosses bonus is based on.
  - Natsu 6y ago

tweetle_beetle 6y ago

Like in any trade, I'm sure that the best are great at what they do, but I suspect I'm not alone in finding that the vast majority of my interactions have not been with a good sales person (and maybe by your definition not with good orgs either). I've never been told that I might be better off going elsewhere. Many times I've been told that whatever problem I describe, they can handle it, or my problem isn't what I think it is and they can handle it. I feel like short term incentivisation tends to promote dishonesty - most organisations don't seem to have feedback mechanisms to deal with a poor sales process. And like most trades, I'm sure the answer is to take it more seriously, train better, invest more in the people, etc. But the reality is for most sales jobs, as a former colleague once told me, you're never more than 2 missed targets away from being let go.

brobdingnagians 6y ago
I've had hardware stores tell me where I could get the solution that I needed at their competitor, because they didn't have it. Those are the interactions I have been most impressed with from any organization. It makes me want to buy stuff from them just to reward their honesty and helpfulness. I must admit that I haven't really had that experience from many tech companies or "professional" companies.
Aeolun 6y ago
> But the reality is for most sales jobs, as a former colleague once told me, you're never more than 2 missed targets away from being let go. That sounds... fair? It’s like having a programmer that cannot program. If your job is literally to sell, and you’re not doing it? I guess it doesn’t have to be black and white as long as you bring in more than you cost though.
- watwut 6y ago
  I can tell with certainty is that I was never ever under such pressure regarding my programming ability. I was never close to being fired and I seen only one company where people were often close to being fired due to temporary slip. Even under pressure, programmers don't really get to have hard to reach targets else they will be fired.

necheffa 6y ago

Just about every sales rep I've interacted with couldn't solve their way out of a wet cardboard box. Instead, they'll sing whatever lie they think will get you to buy a product, up to and including promising functionality that later when you get the lead engineer on the phone you are informed "it was never designed to do that".