4 ms·

I think (from my parents and in-laws) that immunosuppression is normally associated with current cancer treatment. So, for example, it looks like this protocol

I think (from my parents and in-laws) that immunosuppression is normally associated with current cancer treatment. So, for example, it looks like this protocol would exclude people getting chemotherapy. Happy to be proven wrong on this by someone with more information.

JulianMorrison 6y ago
Also transplant recipients take suppressants so their immune system doesn't reject the graft.
chimeracoder 6y ago
> I think (from my parents and in-laws) that immunosuppression is normally associated with current cancer treatment. There are other reasons a person would be considered immunosuppressed, and plenty of non-chemotherapy drugs that have immunosuppressive effects. But yes, cancer is one of them. It would make no sense to include immunosuppressed people in the initial trials for a vaccine, the purpose of which is to determine whether a vaccine can induce an immune response.
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  Yeah, agreed. My selfish concern is then whether or not the vaccine will work for them.
  - chimeracoder 6y ago
    > My selfish concern is then whether or not the vaccine will work for them. We won't have hard data on that specific question for a very long time, but it's something your/their doctor would be better equipped to make an educated guess about, given the specifics of their situation ("immunosuppressed" can mean a range of things). In some cases, a vaccine might do nothing. In some, it might be actively dangerous. In some, it might have a weaker but still nonzero protective effect. But I wouldn't trust anything you read on HN that tries tell you anything more specific than that.
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
    Unfortunately, vaccines can't really help immunocompromised people, as their immune system is simply unable to fight off any infection, regardless of whether it recognizes the infection or not (of course, this may be a matter of degrees). That is why, for example, people with advanced AIDS can die from essentially any pathogen.
    - chimeracoder 6y ago
      Your answer isn't exactly wrong, but it's painting with a broad brush. "immunocompromised" is a broad term (even more so than "immunosuppressed"), so there definitely are people who are immunocompromised who could potentially benefit from a vaccine (again, we don't have hard data on that yet for any of the vaccine candidates and won't for a while).
    - iso1210 6y ago
      They do help indirectly - by innoculating the 90% who can take a vaccine, the 10% who can't (for example babies when it comes to measles vaccines) are unlikely to actually catch the disease.
      - tsimionescu 6y ago
        Oh, for sure, I wasn't trying to say vaccines shouldn't be used! They are extremely important to a healthy population overall, and it is all the more important for people with healthy immune systems to get them to help protect those that can't benefit directly.
    - lokar 6y ago
      Transplant recipients (which must be on suppressants for life) can and do take vaccines and they work. They generally can't take live virus vaccines, but that's about it AFAIK.
shabda 6y ago
Also, Anybody who has received an organ transplant is immunosuppressed. They take immunosuppressive drugs so that the transplanted organ is not rejected.
- raducu 6y ago
  It would be so nice if those people could have access to a coctail of synthetic antibodies that gave some protection to covid-19, the flu and others. Or perhaps a generic antibody that protects against most viruses(unlikely, given such an atibody does not exist in nature).
  - duskwuff 6y ago
    Antibodies don't themselves help fight infections; their role is simply to identify dangerous pathogens to white blood cells. In immunosuppressed patients, those cells often aren't present (or aren't responding properly), so adding antibodies wouldn't help.
    - projektfu 6y ago
      Antibodies also initiate the complement cascade and can thus kill cells directly.
w45673456354 6y ago
And autoimmune conditions, robbing a list from wikipedia: celiac disease, diabetes mellitus type 1, Graves' disease, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, and systemic lupus erythematosus. I don't know how many people with conditions take immunosuppression medication. I take it for arthritis and alopecia and have come across many people on similar meds for diabetes or other things. But that could be a form of confirmation bias
- Skunkleton 6y ago
  Don't forget organ transplants.
- rjsw 6y ago
  There was a suggestion that people with autoimmune conditions were more likely to get "long COVID".
  - raducu 6y ago
    What is "long covid"? People experiencing long term symptoms? I can believe that, my tinnitus after covid-19 is still there, even if I don't notice it as much. Actual viral infection? I really doubt that, thoug perhaps it could hide like the herpes virus.
    - noneeeed 6y ago
      The first. Long lingering after effects. For some they are fairly minor, but for many they seem to be quite tough, with significant problems doing any kind of physical activity. At the moment it's all quite nebulous, with a lot of anecdote and not enough data. But there are some studies starting up that might start to untangle what's going on.
- TearsInTheRain 6y ago
  Does this mean the vaccine wont be given to people with psoriasis?

JulianMorrison 6y ago

Also transplant recipients take suppressants so their immune system doesn't reject the graft.

chimeracoder 6y ago

> I think (from my parents and in-laws) that immunosuppression is normally associated with current cancer treatment. There are other reasons a person would be considered immunosuppressed, and plenty of non-chemotherapy drugs that have immunosuppressive effects. But yes, cancer is one of them. It would make no sense to include immunosuppressed people in the initial trials for a vaccine, the purpose of which is to determine whether a vaccine can induce an immune response.

disgruntledphd2 6y ago
Yeah, agreed. My selfish concern is then whether or not the vaccine will work for them.
- chimeracoder 6y ago
  > My selfish concern is then whether or not the vaccine will work for them. We won't have hard data on that specific question for a very long time, but it's something your/their doctor would be better equipped to make an educated guess about, given the specifics of their situation ("immunosuppressed" can mean a range of things). In some cases, a vaccine might do nothing. In some, it might be actively dangerous. In some, it might have a weaker but still nonzero protective effect. But I wouldn't trust anything you read on HN that tries tell you anything more specific than that.
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  Unfortunately, vaccines can't really help immunocompromised people, as their immune system is simply unable to fight off any infection, regardless of whether it recognizes the infection or not (of course, this may be a matter of degrees). That is why, for example, people with advanced AIDS can die from essentially any pathogen.
  - chimeracoder 6y ago
    Your answer isn't exactly wrong, but it's painting with a broad brush. "immunocompromised" is a broad term (even more so than "immunosuppressed"), so there definitely are people who are immunocompromised who could potentially benefit from a vaccine (again, we don't have hard data on that yet for any of the vaccine candidates and won't for a while).
  - iso1210 6y ago
    They do help indirectly - by innoculating the 90% who can take a vaccine, the 10% who can't (for example babies when it comes to measles vaccines) are unlikely to actually catch the disease.
    - tsimionescu 6y ago
      Oh, for sure, I wasn't trying to say vaccines shouldn't be used! They are extremely important to a healthy population overall, and it is all the more important for people with healthy immune systems to get them to help protect those that can't benefit directly.
  - lokar 6y ago
    Transplant recipients (which must be on suppressants for life) can and do take vaccines and they work. They generally can't take live virus vaccines, but that's about it AFAIK.

shabda 6y ago

Also, Anybody who has received an organ transplant is immunosuppressed. They take immunosuppressive drugs so that the transplanted organ is not rejected.

raducu 6y ago
It would be so nice if those people could have access to a coctail of synthetic antibodies that gave some protection to covid-19, the flu and others. Or perhaps a generic antibody that protects against most viruses(unlikely, given such an atibody does not exist in nature).
- duskwuff 6y ago
  Antibodies don't themselves help fight infections; their role is simply to identify dangerous pathogens to white blood cells. In immunosuppressed patients, those cells often aren't present (or aren't responding properly), so adding antibodies wouldn't help.
  - projektfu 6y ago
    Antibodies also initiate the complement cascade and can thus kill cells directly.

w45673456354 6y ago

And autoimmune conditions, robbing a list from wikipedia: celiac disease, diabetes mellitus type 1, Graves' disease, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, and systemic lupus erythematosus. I don't know how many people with conditions take immunosuppression medication. I take it for arthritis and alopecia and have come across many people on similar meds for diabetes or other things. But that could be a form of confirmation bias

Skunkleton 6y ago
Don't forget organ transplants.
rjsw 6y ago
There was a suggestion that people with autoimmune conditions were more likely to get "long COVID".
- raducu 6y ago
  What is "long covid"? People experiencing long term symptoms? I can believe that, my tinnitus after covid-19 is still there, even if I don't notice it as much. Actual viral infection? I really doubt that, thoug perhaps it could hide like the herpes virus.
  - noneeeed 6y ago
    The first. Long lingering after effects. For some they are fairly minor, but for many they seem to be quite tough, with significant problems doing any kind of physical activity. At the moment it's all quite nebulous, with a lot of anecdote and not enough data. But there are some studies starting up that might start to untangle what's going on.
TearsInTheRain 6y ago
Does this mean the vaccine wont be given to people with psoriasis?