6 ms·

Meanwhile, actual US citizens who were married to somebody with an ITIN (for example, my wife is in the process of getting her immigrant visa and green card), g

Meanwhile, actual US citizens who were married to somebody with an ITIN (for example, my wife is in the process of getting her immigrant visa and green card), got $0 stimulus money whatsoever. Apparently the administration was trying to punish people married to illegal immigrants, and all the people suffering through the legal and extremely slow immigration process get bundled in with them?

whimsicalism 6y ago
Yes, it also penalized attending college.
Natsu 6y ago
It seemed to work for those with a green card, at least, though I was sort of worried that it would be counted as 'public assistance' for the purposes of the 'public charge' rule that's now being enforced. Seems that it's not being considered as such, though, at least according to the lawyer I talked to.
- kylehotchkiss 6y ago
  So long as you got your SSN (which I hear are printed much faster than green cards) you should have gotten it. Thankfully public charge rule is on the way out, and I wish you a smooth journey to citizenship without that policy looming much longer :D
- jkaplowitz 6y ago
  Nah, the public charge rule refers to a specific set of federal benefits. This legislatively created extra tax refund is not one of those.
  - Natsu 6y ago
    I figured that it would make no sense to count it as such, but I also thought it made no sense to require every field on each immigration form to be filled out. With PDF form validation being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see people listed as having 5 kids named NA NA NA in USCIS records in the future.
WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
Claim it on your taxes... the $1200 was just basically a tax credit given ahead of time. If you qualify, you can claim it in January... won't help you today :(
- pc86 6y ago
  But they don't qualify, that's the point. If you have an ITIN you don't qualify for this kind of tax credit.
- jkaplowitz 6y ago
  The rules are even weirder than that. The advance tax credit doesn't have to be repaid even if 2020 income makes one qualify for a smaller amount than actually received or for no payment at all. But if 2020 income is low enough to qualify for a higher payment, you do get to claim the difference on the 2020 tax return. Even weirder, if your payment would be different between 2018 and 2019 income, the actual payment the law granted earlier this year depended on which returns had been filed at the time the IRS determined eligibility, with no adjustment for subsequent filings. I qualified for my full payment based on my 2018 income, would not have qualified for anything based on my 2019 income, and did not expect to qualify for 2020 either (although the impact of the pandemic means I actually would). I made sure not to file my 2019 tax return until after I got my payment. Very badly designed legislation, though there may not have been much alternative if they wanted to act quickly.
  - WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
    Well huzzah for year over year poverty. Being caught outside of the spotty economic recovery (trumpeted by media+pols as being widespread and holistic) finally paid a dividend.
belltaco 6y ago
>Apparently the administration was trying to punish people married to illegal immigrants, and all the people suffering through the legal and extremely slow immigration process get bundled in with them They say that, but under Stephen Miller almost every single aspect of legal immigration has been made harder, slower and more expensive than before. After all Steve Bannon said the high number of Asian CEOs in Silicon Valley is not compatible with a civic society and that it's worth it for the US to lose economically while restricting legal immigration. So what you encountered was a feature, not a bug.
- legolas2412 6y ago
  Now, that may be the media soundbite, the actual numbers may surprise you. In 2015, under the obama administration, out of 531k immigrant visas (green cards), only 21k were for employment based categories, with 8600 for investors (visas for sale), and only 11k for EB1,2,3 categories (that is high skilled employees of companies and academics/professors in universities). In 2019, out of 462k green cards, there were 28k employment visas, with 16k for EB1,2,3 categories. So, an asian would have a better opportunity to get a green card and subsequently become CEO under the trump administration. Both republcians and democrats want this feature of preventing high skilled immigration. [1] https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2019AnnualReport/FY19AnnualReport-%20TableI.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Annual... [2] https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2019AnnualReport/FY19AnnualReport-%20TableII.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Annual...
  - dalyons 6y ago
    FYI as an immigrant on a visa(so im attuned to this stuff) availability of visas and greencards lowered drastically in 2020. Some of it was purportedly "due to the pandemic" but it was mostly barriers miller/trump wanted to introduce anyway. I would expect the 2020 numbers to be much lower, and if this administration had stayed in power, continued to be much lower into 2021+.
rayiner 6y ago
It wasn’t “the administration.” The $1,200 stimulus is structured as a refundable tax credit. The CARES Act itself—which was enacted by a Democratic House and Republican Senate—clearly requires everyone filing a joint return to have a valid SSN. Section 2201(g) says: > (g) IDENTIFICATION NUMBER REQUIREMENT.— ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—No credit shall be allowed under subsection (a) to an eligible individual who does not include on the return of tax for the taxable year— ‘‘(A) such individual’s valid identification number, ‘‘(B) in the case of a joint return, the valid identification number of such individual’s spouse, and ‘‘(C) in the case of any qualifying child taken into account under subsection (a)(2), the valid identification number of such qualifying child. > ‘‘(2) VALID IDENTIFICATION NUMBER.— ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of paragraph (1), the term ‘valid identification number’ means a social security number (as such term is defined in section 24(h)(7)).
- waheoo 6y ago
  But.. but.. the narrative..
- jimz 6y ago
  Ah yes, the clause that neatly manages to exclude tax payers who have ITNs that look and at filing time function just like an SSN but somehow are neatly trimmed out here, I wonder how that got in there...
  - bigbubba 6y ago
    How did it get there?
  - rayiner 6y ago
    It got there because Congress, not the administration, put it in there.
    - WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
      It'd be fair to say that vocal hostility toward immigration is more concentrated in one party - and that that party is spread across the WH and Congress. To be reasonable tho, effective hostility toward immigration is historically well represented in both parties (eg: immigration policies under the previous admin).
crazygringo 6y ago
It's annoying but can't you file separately instead of jointly for your 2020 return? If I'm interpreting the statute correctly, you'd then receive the stimulus next year. (Since anyone who didn't receive it but is qualified will receive it on their 2020 return, filed in 2021.)
- lazyasciiart 6y ago
  Yes, but that’s going to be six-twelve months later than it should have been. And for some people, the penalty for filing separately will outweigh $1200 - such as single income households.

whimsicalism 6y ago

Yes, it also penalized attending college.

Natsu 6y ago

It seemed to work for those with a green card, at least, though I was sort of worried that it would be counted as 'public assistance' for the purposes of the 'public charge' rule that's now being enforced. Seems that it's not being considered as such, though, at least according to the lawyer I talked to.

kylehotchkiss 6y ago
So long as you got your SSN (which I hear are printed much faster than green cards) you should have gotten it. Thankfully public charge rule is on the way out, and I wish you a smooth journey to citizenship without that policy looming much longer :D
jkaplowitz 6y ago
Nah, the public charge rule refers to a specific set of federal benefits. This legislatively created extra tax refund is not one of those.
- Natsu 6y ago
  I figured that it would make no sense to count it as such, but I also thought it made no sense to require every field on each immigration form to be filled out. With PDF form validation being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see people listed as having 5 kids named NA NA NA in USCIS records in the future.

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago

Claim it on your taxes... the $1200 was just basically a tax credit given ahead of time. If you qualify, you can claim it in January... won't help you today :(

pc86 6y ago
But they don't qualify, that's the point. If you have an ITIN you don't qualify for this kind of tax credit.
jkaplowitz 6y ago
The rules are even weirder than that. The advance tax credit doesn't have to be repaid even if 2020 income makes one qualify for a smaller amount than actually received or for no payment at all. But if 2020 income is low enough to qualify for a higher payment, you do get to claim the difference on the 2020 tax return. Even weirder, if your payment would be different between 2018 and 2019 income, the actual payment the law granted earlier this year depended on which returns had been filed at the time the IRS determined eligibility, with no adjustment for subsequent filings. I qualified for my full payment based on my 2018 income, would not have qualified for anything based on my 2019 income, and did not expect to qualify for 2020 either (although the impact of the pandemic means I actually would). I made sure not to file my 2019 tax return until after I got my payment. Very badly designed legislation, though there may not have been much alternative if they wanted to act quickly.
- WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
  Well huzzah for year over year poverty. Being caught outside of the spotty economic recovery (trumpeted by media+pols as being widespread and holistic) finally paid a dividend.

belltaco 6y ago

>Apparently the administration was trying to punish people married to illegal immigrants, and all the people suffering through the legal and extremely slow immigration process get bundled in with them They say that, but under Stephen Miller almost every single aspect of legal immigration has been made harder, slower and more expensive than before. After all Steve Bannon said the high number of Asian CEOs in Silicon Valley is not compatible with a civic society and that it's worth it for the US to lose economically while restricting legal immigration. So what you encountered was a feature, not a bug.

legolas2412 6y ago
Now, that may be the media soundbite, the actual numbers may surprise you. In 2015, under the obama administration, out of 531k immigrant visas (green cards), only 21k were for employment based categories, with 8600 for investors (visas for sale), and only 11k for EB1,2,3 categories (that is high skilled employees of companies and academics/professors in universities). In 2019, out of 462k green cards, there were 28k employment visas, with 16k for EB1,2,3 categories. So, an asian would have a better opportunity to get a green card and subsequently become CEO under the trump administration. Both republcians and democrats want this feature of preventing high skilled immigration. [1] https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2019AnnualReport/FY19AnnualReport-%20TableI.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Annual... [2] https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2019AnnualReport/FY19AnnualReport-%20TableII.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Annual...
- dalyons 6y ago
  FYI as an immigrant on a visa(so im attuned to this stuff) availability of visas and greencards lowered drastically in 2020. Some of it was purportedly "due to the pandemic" but it was mostly barriers miller/trump wanted to introduce anyway. I would expect the 2020 numbers to be much lower, and if this administration had stayed in power, continued to be much lower into 2021+.

rayiner 6y ago

It wasn’t “the administration.” The $1,200 stimulus is structured as a refundable tax credit. The CARES Act itself—which was enacted by a Democratic House and Republican Senate—clearly requires everyone filing a joint return to have a valid SSN. Section 2201(g) says: > (g) IDENTIFICATION NUMBER REQUIREMENT.— ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—No credit shall be allowed under subsection (a) to an eligible individual who does not include on the return of tax for the taxable year— ‘‘(A) such individual’s valid identification number, ‘‘(B) in the case of a joint return, the valid identification number of such individual’s spouse, and ‘‘(C) in the case of any qualifying child taken into account under subsection (a)(2), the valid identification number of such qualifying child. > ‘‘(2) VALID IDENTIFICATION NUMBER.— ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of paragraph (1), the term ‘valid identification number’ means a social security number (as such term is defined in section 24(h)(7)).

waheoo 6y ago
But.. but.. the narrative..
jimz 6y ago
Ah yes, the clause that neatly manages to exclude tax payers who have ITNs that look and at filing time function just like an SSN but somehow are neatly trimmed out here, I wonder how that got in there...
- bigbubba 6y ago
  How did it get there?
- rayiner 6y ago
  It got there because Congress, not the administration, put it in there.
  - WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
    It'd be fair to say that vocal hostility toward immigration is more concentrated in one party - and that that party is spread across the WH and Congress. To be reasonable tho, effective hostility toward immigration is historically well represented in both parties (eg: immigration policies under the previous admin).

crazygringo 6y ago

It's annoying but can't you file separately instead of jointly for your 2020 return? If I'm interpreting the statute correctly, you'd then receive the stimulus next year. (Since anyone who didn't receive it but is qualified will receive it on their 2020 return, filed in 2021.)

lazyasciiart 6y ago
Yes, but that’s going to be six-twelve months later than it should have been. And for some people, the penalty for filing separately will outweigh $1200 - such as single income households.