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>> Then behavioral analysis was performed as previously described during 10 days, and finally, animals were “sacrificed” on day 31. Is “sacrificing” a common p

>> Then behavioral analysis was performed as previously described during 10 days, and finally, animals were “sacrificed” on day 31. Is “sacrificing” a common practice after test is finished? I’m probably not supposed to be bothered by this, but still kinda feels sad. On the other hand the discovery is fascinating. I guess it’s all part of the deal.

natchy 6y ago
As long as the animals are eaten then it's a lot better than factory farming IMO. I think people would eat meat less regularly if they see the animals butchered.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  I think people would eat meat less regularly if they see the animals butchered. I don't think this holds. It's pretty obvious that a Thanksgiving turkey or a rotisserie chicken used to be a whole animal, but we still eat those. Also, you really wouldn't want to eat lab animals, especially ones that have been subjected to pharmaceutical testing.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    There's a difference between obvious they were butchered and seeing them butchered. E.g. while I'm ok eating a chicken, I'm not sure I'd want one murdered and gutted as I watch, then immediately fried. It's likely different for people who grew up on a farm and know it as normal life.
    - nitrogen 6y ago
      It's likely different for people who grew up on a farm and know it as normal life. I've mostly just seen pictures of cows being butchered, but I did watch a rooster die when it had to be shot. It's not ideal. I still eat meat and will continue to do so until lab-grown alternatives are nutritionally and culinarily indistinguishable, and IMO what humans do for food is far more humane than what most of nature does.
- capnorange 6y ago
  > I think people would eat meat less regularly if they see the animals butchered. I have been on a carnivore diet for some time now. I wanted to know if I was capable of butchering. With some training from a pro, I did it around 6 times(goat). Gave up on meat since. For some reason I don't feel the same disgust with fishing, so my diet is mostly replaced with fish. Good thing about sea food is you get a lot more variety!
  - UShouldBWorking 6y ago
    Ive killed a bunch of chickens and goats too, it's horrendous to say the least. After we moved off the farm I stopped eating meat but just like you say feel the same about fish.
- smabie 6y ago
  I dunno, I lived in Africa and it was a pretty regular occurrence to either kill a goat/chicken or kill it yourself. Didn't seem to stop people from wanting to eat meat (including me).
- adrianN 6y ago
  For large parts of human history, if you wanted to eat meat you'd have not only to kill it yourself, but also to raise it yourself. People still ate meat. Imo the killing part is not actually that bad, it's everything we do to the animals before that that is truly horrendous.
- samatman 6y ago
  ...this is a weird thing to say in reply to a post about killing lab mice. I don't think the corpses were eaten, they took out the parts they needed to autopsy and tossed the rest in a biohazard bag, if it's anything like labs I've worked in.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  No one eats lab mice. But it is perfectly normal to kill them in order to fix the brain tissue so you can image it.
lambdaloop 6y ago
Yes, they used immunohistochemistry to tag cells, which generally requires removing the brain and imbuing it in a solution of chemicals and antibodies. Unfortunately, non-invasive techniques (such as MRI for instance) still don't give you the cell-level precision that is the field standard for such studies.
stinos 6y ago
I’m probably not supposed to be bothered by this Why not? I'd argue it's better to be bothered by it than just exclaim "ok it's for science" without any critical view. Anyway: it's extremely common especially with mice. You'd be suprised by the total numbers (which might be hard to acquire having to sift through animal-rights but the order of magnitude should be correct; I'm guessing a couple of tens of millions rodents per year in the US is ballpark correct). A bunch of reasons like what a sibling commenter says but also because you can usually not use mice which were used for experiment A in experiment B exepcting A had no influence.
radu_floricica 6y ago
Being bothered is perfectly ok. Just keep in mind the absurdly lopsided balance of cost vs benefit, when compared with something mundane like eating meat (which I do btw and still consider worthy, but is objectively several orders of magnitude less efficient).
Mumps 6y ago
(souce: work experience in mice/rat labs) In short: yes, sacrifice is common at experiment completion. Though it's done pragmatically and as an \ethically appropriate measure. A bit longer: most brain tissue studies require extraction, fixing, staining,... of brain. so are usually done _ex vivo_ . Even longer: But even where animal could be kept alive, it raises questions of what exactly one should do: - Do you keep paying for, up to, years to house an animal that can't be used for anything else? (consider, if you've applied treatments to it, you likely discredit it from inclusion in other studies). - Did your study cause long-term effects that would lead the animal to suffering were you to keep it alive? - You probably can't release the animal: most are raised from birth in facilities, they'd not likely survive long (not that mice live very long in the wild as it is). - Or, if you _did_ release them would they spread anything into the wild? \ ethically appropriate is decided by ethics boards. Please don't argue with me about what is or isn't ethical animal treatment.

natchy 6y ago

As long as the animals are eaten then it's a lot better than factory farming IMO. I think people would eat meat less regularly if they see the animals butchered.

nitrogen 6y ago
I think people would eat meat less regularly if they see the animals butchered. I don't think this holds. It's pretty obvious that a Thanksgiving turkey or a rotisserie chicken used to be a whole animal, but we still eat those. Also, you really wouldn't want to eat lab animals, especially ones that have been subjected to pharmaceutical testing.
- viraptor 6y ago
  There's a difference between obvious they were butchered and seeing them butchered. E.g. while I'm ok eating a chicken, I'm not sure I'd want one murdered and gutted as I watch, then immediately fried. It's likely different for people who grew up on a farm and know it as normal life.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    It's likely different for people who grew up on a farm and know it as normal life. I've mostly just seen pictures of cows being butchered, but I did watch a rooster die when it had to be shot. It's not ideal. I still eat meat and will continue to do so until lab-grown alternatives are nutritionally and culinarily indistinguishable, and IMO what humans do for food is far more humane than what most of nature does.
capnorange 6y ago
> I think people would eat meat less regularly if they see the animals butchered. I have been on a carnivore diet for some time now. I wanted to know if I was capable of butchering. With some training from a pro, I did it around 6 times(goat). Gave up on meat since. For some reason I don't feel the same disgust with fishing, so my diet is mostly replaced with fish. Good thing about sea food is you get a lot more variety!
- UShouldBWorking 6y ago
  Ive killed a bunch of chickens and goats too, it's horrendous to say the least. After we moved off the farm I stopped eating meat but just like you say feel the same about fish.
smabie 6y ago
I dunno, I lived in Africa and it was a pretty regular occurrence to either kill a goat/chicken or kill it yourself. Didn't seem to stop people from wanting to eat meat (including me).
adrianN 6y ago
For large parts of human history, if you wanted to eat meat you'd have not only to kill it yourself, but also to raise it yourself. People still ate meat. Imo the killing part is not actually that bad, it's everything we do to the animals before that that is truly horrendous.
samatman 6y ago
...this is a weird thing to say in reply to a post about killing lab mice. I don't think the corpses were eaten, they took out the parts they needed to autopsy and tossed the rest in a biohazard bag, if it's anything like labs I've worked in.
renewiltord 6y ago
No one eats lab mice. But it is perfectly normal to kill them in order to fix the brain tissue so you can image it.

lambdaloop 6y ago

Yes, they used immunohistochemistry to tag cells, which generally requires removing the brain and imbuing it in a solution of chemicals and antibodies. Unfortunately, non-invasive techniques (such as MRI for instance) still don't give you the cell-level precision that is the field standard for such studies.

stinos 6y ago

I’m probably not supposed to be bothered by this Why not? I'd argue it's better to be bothered by it than just exclaim "ok it's for science" without any critical view. Anyway: it's extremely common especially with mice. You'd be suprised by the total numbers (which might be hard to acquire having to sift through animal-rights but the order of magnitude should be correct; I'm guessing a couple of tens of millions rodents per year in the US is ballpark correct). A bunch of reasons like what a sibling commenter says but also because you can usually not use mice which were used for experiment A in experiment B exepcting A had no influence.

radu_floricica 6y ago

Being bothered is perfectly ok. Just keep in mind the absurdly lopsided balance of cost vs benefit, when compared with something mundane like eating meat (which I do btw and still consider worthy, but is objectively several orders of magnitude less efficient).

Mumps 6y ago

(souce: work experience in mice/rat labs) In short: yes, sacrifice is common at experiment completion. Though it's done pragmatically and as an \ethically appropriate measure. A bit longer: most brain tissue studies require extraction, fixing, staining,... of brain. so are usually done _ex vivo_ . Even longer: But even where animal could be kept alive, it raises questions of what exactly one should do: - Do you keep paying for, up to, years to house an animal that can't be used for anything else? (consider, if you've applied treatments to it, you likely discredit it from inclusion in other studies). - Did your study cause long-term effects that would lead the animal to suffering were you to keep it alive? - You probably can't release the animal: most are raised from birth in facilities, they'd not likely survive long (not that mice live very long in the wild as it is). - Or, if you _did_ release them would they spread anything into the wild? \ ethically appropriate is decided by ethics boards. Please don't argue with me about what is or isn't ethical animal treatment.