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Melting ice patch in Norway reveals large collection of ancient arrows
- jeffbee 6y agoThose are pretty strong against guardians.
- viraptor 6y agoThis made me think of a book plot I'd like read: melting ice reveals a sign "we've been in this situation, at this point you've got 5 years to revert the climate trend or die".
- xyzelement 6y agoWouldn't this finding imply the reverse situation - we've been at this level of climate before during a -cooling- time (hence ice) and we're now going through a reversal of that cooling?
- viraptor 6y agoIt depends how optimistic you are. It could be a message from a civilisation wiped out ages ago, because they knew at what point they crossed the line when the changes were irreversible. (ignore the continent drift and the placement of the sign for a bit :) ) Devices left behind kept working for some time, speeding up the recovery enough that we can't see that period clearly in any usual natural markers.
- bioinformatics 6y agoNah, it's not optimism, it's intelligence, really. Yes, it's definitely a message from peoples of olden ages.
- tchvil 6y agoI was thinking exactly this too. And found quite a few other articles about glacier archaeology, like this one: https://climateaudit.org/2005/11/18/archaeological-finds-in-retreating-swiss-glacier/ https://climateaudit.org/2005/11/18/archaeological-finds-in-... As it dates back from 2005... I'm not sure the parent one will spark any doubt either
- permo-w 6y agoSurely it would imply that they had 5 years and they succeeded
- Gravityloss 6y agoWe might have passed the "holocene climate optimum" already (haven't researched it much) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_%28period%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_%28period%29 During the holocene, (last 10,000 years, ie after the ice age) Northern Europe has seen much warmer temperatures than the average of last century. Finland had oak forests in the stone age five thousand years ago. And there were much colder periods than now in between etc. Currently there's a lot of old oaks only in the warmest most favorable locations and forests are mostly pine. After all they take centuries to grow. But oak is again spreading.
- ISL 6y agoNot too far from : http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/fwalter/AST389/TEXTS/Nightfall.htm http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/fwalter/AST389/TEXTS/Nightfall.h...
- viraptor 6y agoHa, you made me realise that it would be basically a message for a Seldon Crisis.
- api 6y agoReminds me somehow of a joke from a genetics class of mine: A block of what appears to be encoded language is found in the DNA of virtually all organisms. It includes a primer with a key to decoding it. After years and years of work by the world’s greatest cryptographers, the message is deciphered. It reads: “Danger! Extremely hazardous self-replicating agents! For hazardous waste cleanup use only. In case of spill or uncontrolled replication, contact...”
- sebmellen 6y agoThat's brilliant! I wonder what kind of hazardous waste life was meant to clean up..? And what was the contact address!??
- tetris11 6y agoIt'd be cool if the primer doesn't align to anyone yet, and all humans alive right now are just a few variants off from receiving the message
- teddyh 6y agoIt could be worse: http://dresdencodak.com/2009/07/12/fabulous-prizes/ http://dresdencodak.com/2009/07/12/fabulous-prizes/
- chrisco255 6y agoHow do you suppose the Vikings reverted the climate during the Medieval Warm Period? Interestingly, Norse Mythology centers around Frost Giants signalling the end of the world. They feared the ice returning. Why do you think that is?
- viraptor 6y agoI was not thinking about the Viking times in this case, but honestly I love the frost giants version!
- sebcat 6y agoFimbulvinter (a long winter) was a sign of Ragnarök. Ice giants was not a sign.
- chrisco255 6y agoFair enough. Point still stands. The Norse feared long and continuous winter. Not warming. Why?
- PeterisP 6y agoBecause the area is currently colder than average or optimal for human habitation and agriculture. Colder climates make Scandinavian peninsula uninhabitable (e.g. as it was during Weichselian glaciation) and local warming would likely even be helpful for the long-term habitability and agriculture of that particular region (unlike the much more populated areas in warmer climates), the costs and risks for Nordic countries mainly come from the change as such, requiring adaptation. The Norse people who were living in the northern parts of modern Norway would probably prefer if these lands had the climate of current Oslo area or Denmark, not fear that.
- roywiggins 6y agoQuite possibly because they had actually experienced what happens when the summer doesn't come. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_weather_events_of_535%E2%80%93536 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_weather_events_of_53...
- jstanley 6y agoReminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_stone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_stone
- inglor_cz 6y agoOh, yeah, we have a lot of them in the Elbe. (CZ).
- pilsetnieks 6y agoTo me, it rather reminds of the (actually existing) Japanese tsunami stones - the stones littering the coasts of Japan bearing inscriptions warning not to build homes below the point. The Fukushima Daiichi plant was built below that point, in fact it was built on the beachfront. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidbressan/2018/03/11/how-century-old-tsunami-stones-saved-lives-in-the-tohoku-earthquake-of-2011/?sh=590a536a44fd https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidbressan/2018/03/11/how-cen...
- throwaway888abc 6y agoGreat link, thanks. Learn from the past ^2.
- ornornor 6y agoThis was cool. And goes to show how we never learn...
- lb1lf 6y ago-Not only was the plant built more or less on the seafront, the sheds housing the backup generators were quite literally built on the quay stones. In hindsight (which, after all, is 20/20), it would have made sense to keep a set of backup generators on the top of the reactor building, just in case a tsunami came a-knocking.
- chairmanwow1 6y agoIs it normal to hide these archaeological sites? Just seemed weird to not publicize the finding. I suppose it’s better to have tourists and locals come visiting.
- stan_rogers 6y agoYes, it is normal - and that's because sites quickly become useless for archaeology when the souvenir-hunters and traders in artifacts come a-calling. It's not just about what is there, but where everything is in relation to everything else.
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoStill, melting ice can render ephemeral objects unrecognizable in days. Even if 'pot-hunters' moved in, they would at least preserve something. As it is, perhaps millions of artifacts are decaying to be lost forever? That's not good archaeology either. I'm of two minds on this.
- viraptor 6y ago> I suppose it’s better to have tourists Not if they will move / not report interesting items, or stomp over ground you want to see undisturbed for some time. Just look how quickly the recent monolith discovery changed into a tourist attraction and got popular on the internet.
- AlotOfReading 6y agoYes, it's typical. For one, you don't want people disturbing sensitive sites that may need to be revisited periodically. Things that have the allure of value tend to make otherwise reasonable people greedy and come sniffing around for things to loot. It's not hidden from anyone with credentials or the government, just the general public.
- trianglem 6y agoAbsolutely not. Humanity is not trust worthy. It’s going to be a couple of days before Instagram influencers descend on the site and destroy it.
- rmac 6y agothe picture in this article is of one arrow. ONE?!
- just-juan-post 6y ago> The researchers have also found reindeer antlers and bones and other biological matter but have been surprised by how few of them have been revealed as the ice melts. Sites like this can be a "kill zone" where animals tend to naturally gather like say a watering hole or a cluster of exceptionally tempting edible plants. No need to create a lure or decoys, just wait for them to come. Lack of bones may indicate that kills were moved before they were dissected.
- jhellan 6y agoReindeer do gather on snow patches in summer/early autumn to avoid insects.
- vmception 6y agoReads like a /r/nosleep title, or writing prompt
- thunderrabbit 6y agoIt reminds me that this happens every year in some parts of the world, with loose items and such found in the spring. Therefore, I imagine it happened every year in that part of Norway for the years leading up to this very long freeze that's now thawing.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y agoIt's hard to imagine living in a world where the same ground produces food hunted with bow and arrow for 5200 years. I mean... what constitutes a generation gap in that world?
- WalterBright 6y agoMore advanced weapons require a lot of diverse foundational technologies which took a very long time to develop, simply because of a lack of writing, a lack of even the concept of those technologies, a lack of labor specialization, and a lack of the concept of an organized development process.
- ruined 6y agocould probably still hunt deer there today. we're the outliers. pick any two random people from that span of millennia, and they will have an understanding between them that is impenetrable to us.
- z3t4 6y agoReindeer was domesticated. So they didn't need to hunt them.
- canada_dry 6y agoA bit more in-depth article (with addtl pics): https://secretsoftheice.com/news/2020/11/25/prehistoric-arrow-bonanza/ https://secretsoftheice.com/news/2020/11/25/prehistoric-arro...
- smusamashah 6y agoIs carbon dating accurate? I mean is the part in arrow 6000 year old or the wood part? Does it work for today's items?
- dboreham 6y agoYes and no: between 60kya and 800ya.
- dt123 6y agosay wuut
- alltakendamned 6y agoThe people behind this research have a rather interesting Twitter account on which they document many of their finds and glacial archeology in general. It's called Secrets of the Ice and is at https://twitter.com/brearkeologi https://twitter.com/brearkeologi Their main website is https://secretsoftheice.com/ https://secretsoftheice.com/ And their own article about these finds has more information and more pictures and is probably a better source if you're interested in this: https://secretsoftheice.com/news/2020/11/25/prehistoric-arrow-bonanza/ https://secretsoftheice.com/news/2020/11/25/prehistoric-arro...
- OpticalWindows 6y agoThis photo is rather alarming https://twitter.com/ZLabe/status/1320024088954294275/photo/1 https://twitter.com/ZLabe/status/1320024088954294275/photo/1
- sbeller 6y agoJust an exponential function showing its true colors, not sure what is alarming here. /s
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoHasn't done this for 6000 years. Its doing things like this everywhere. So while one data point can be thought of as 'normal' or 'just how an exponential function works', a global phenomenon is damning. We're in a very fast, very abrupt warming time. Nothing like any historical period. Not explainable as normal variation.
- ornornor 6y agoNah we all know global warming is a hoax. /s
- raarts 6y agoSure, but we now can say with certainty that 2020 isn't the hottest year on record for that particular region.
- ChuckMcM 6y agoKind of makes you want to hang out along the edge of glaciers to see the big reveal. Pretty interesting find. The arrow in the picture appears to be metal so not stone age. And the question of why so many in that spot? Did something in the ice collect them there from all over? Or was their a seasonal hunting ground where these guys hunted? Sadly what I see in hunting spots around the bay are discarded plastic shotgun shell hulls[1]. Sadly I think those things will last for a very long time. [1] Yes, I pick them up when I find them and hike them out but clearly not everyone does.
- Proven 6y agoIn other words, don't worry about the so called global warming.
- Commodore_64 6y agoReality is just one big Jojo reference