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Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bi
by leoh 6y ago
Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It also is said to last thousands of miles, if not 1e4 miles+.
- Finnucane 6y agoThe advantage here is that the chain could be made backwards-compatible with existing conventional drivetrains. The Gates drive can't be retrofitted onto older frames.
- Sunspark 6y agoWhy can't it be? My bike is a fixed gear track frame. If the threads of the sprockets are compatible with the rear wheel, then it should be able to fit.
- Tomte 6y agoThe belt is a closed loop and under high tension when installed. Your frame needs to be able to be opened to let the belt in, then your sprocket pack needs to be able to move backwards, so you can put tension on it.
- tigerBL00D 6y ago> then your sprocket pack needs to be able to move backwards, so you can put tension on it I am assuming that's what the poster meant by putting emphasis on his frame being a fixed gear one. Those normally have horizontal dropouts to put tension in the chain.
- Tomte 6y agoThanks, I had no idea!
- davidgould 6y agoBut they don’t have split frames so there is no way to install the belt in the first place.
- usrusr 6y agoUnlike a chain the belt is a closed loop, you can only use it with a frame that can be opened in the rear triangle.
- turbinerneiter 6y agoThere is however a belt drive systm with a split belt. Seems to be quite new and expensive and propably come switch its own upsides and downsides.
- alistairSH 6y agoHow do you handle gears with the belt? Most of the bike I've seen in the US that use the system are single-speeds. I suppose you could use a internally-geared hub, but a Rohloff is mega-expensive and the Shimano offerings leave a lot to be desired.
- wishinghand 6y agoI bought a Spot Ajax with an Alfine 11 speed hub. Shifts well and has a good spread. I’m a recreational bicyclist though, I have no idea how it “performs”.
- alistairSH 6y agoFor recreation/commuting/city use, the Alfine is fine. Unless Shimano has revamped it in the last few years, it isn't particularly robust and doesn't work well for high-power use (mountain biking, in particular).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoThey're going onto e-bikes that will never be pedaled under human power.
- GhostVII 6y agoIf you want to shift gears using the carbon drive you have to use an internal gear hub, which has a lot less range than a traditional derailleur and is less efficient. So if you are riding a racing or mountain bike a chain system is probably a better way to go. Also it looks like you can't shift under load with the internal hubs which is a problem if you are trying to climb hills quickly.
- kleer001 6y ago> a lot less range Maybe in the more popular implementations like from Shimano. But there's internal hubs with greater ratio spread than chained: The Rohloff: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html https://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html
- Yetanfou 6y ago...which at ~€1100 costs more than many people will spend on a bike, weighs more than a full set of sprockets and a derailleur, is less efficient due to the staged planetary drive, can only be repaired by sending it back to the factory, can (like other planetary drives) not be shifted under load and as such is more of an interesting novelty than a real solution to the stated problem.
- filmor 6y agoGood internal hub gears can be shifted under load, and the Rohloff one is probably as good as it gets.
- Yetanfou 6y agoThe Rohloff can not be shifted under load. You can shift by quickly letting off power, shift and then resume like you can do with other planetary gear systems. Here's a discussion on the subject of shifting under load, with opinions from "both" sides: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4172.0 http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4172.0
- 6y ago
- toxik 6y agoI have seen maybe one driveshaft based bike, and I’m European, and that was at the school of mechanical engineering.
- rorykoehler 6y agoWhat about potential of the ceramicspeed driven design? https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/driven/ https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/driven/
- TwoBit 6y agoI cannot believe that thing is viable.
- S_A_P 6y agoIt appears that it currently is not...
- FpUser 6y agoSome cyclists are indoctrinated to the point that they might actually buy this insanity.
- rorykoehler 6y agoHN is becoming more conservative by the day. Shouldn’t companies/people be applauded for thinking outside of the box and trying to innovate?
- Kliment 6y agoInnovation can be good, scamming other people into spending money on things that don't work, not so much. There's a whole lot of the latter masquerading as the former. There's also a whole lot of user/customer/community hostile innovation, like the entire advertising industry.
- rorykoehler 6y agoThat’s not the case here though. The design I linked is a legitimate attempt at solving a real problem. Whether it works as well as intended or not is a separate issue.
- Yetanfou 6y agoI've destroyed a number of Sturmey Archer planetary drive clutches - the square cross-shaped bit which transfers force from the sprocket holder to the drive - by just using them, leaving me wary of planetary drives. While I've also gone through derailleurs they do seem to handle power better than planetary drives and have the additional advantage of feeling far more like a direct drive. One of the advantages of a bicycle is its simplicity, there is not much between your feet and whatever goes for road you happen to be on. I'll gladly give up 2% of efficiency to keep the system simple, repairable with off-the-shelf parts which can be found anywhere in the world and affordable.
- analog31 6y agoThen you're a stronger cyclist than me, because I've ridden S-A AW hubs for decades and have broken Zero of them. I've have had them open to determine that they tend to stay in pristine condition under normal use. But the common IGH's do come with specs for minimum gear ratio front to back (2:1, I think), suggesting an implied torque limit. I've always wondered which part was the weak link. The cogs wear out under normal use (I've replaced a couple so far) but that's true on derailleur bikes as well.
- Yetanfou 6y ago> I've always wondered which part was the weak link. Well, now you know... especially in 3d gear (when the cross drives the planetary hub by engaging on the top of the cog axles) the clutch is under high load. I often rode that bike with a heavy trailer (made from a shipping crate and some moped wheels which I happened to have lying around) to haul my guitar, amp and saxophone through the Dutch countryside to practice with my band, this may have put too much of a load on the hub.
- analog31 6y agoI'm a double bassist, and have only seen pictures of people cycling with their basses, but they are all either from the Netherlands or NYC.
- owenversteeg 6y agoI live in the Netherlands and have traveled Europe very extensively and I have never seen one single belt driven bike... I have a feeling that it'll be a long time before Europe widely adopts them :) Does look very cool, though.
- danishdev 6y ago"Largely adopted" also avid cyclist both in the city and in the countryside, and I don't recall seeing one of these ever
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- usrusr 6y agoI've seen many, but only in shops. On the road they just don't look that much different, they are the kind of bicycle that doesn't draw any attention and you surely won't see any parked because they are way out of street parking price range anyways (particularly in the Netherlands were most bikes don't even cost as much as the belt itself because returning home on foot isn't much fun)
- pierot 6y agoOh, but you can see those from time to time Belgium. Largely adopted? No, not at all.
- pandemic_region 6y agoCube has one https://www.cube.eu/en/2020/bikes/urban/hyde/cube-hyde-pro-blacknblue-2020/ https://www.cube.eu/en/2020/bikes/urban/hyde/cube-hyde-pro-b... , I bought the 2018 model it's really nice and convenient to drive. Going back to traditional chain once you drove one of these may be similar to automatic vs manual gear shift in a car, why would you? Note: I'm a casual cyclist.
- simooooo 6y ago
- danburbridge 6y agoGates only quote between 95-98% efficiency. You can relatively easily get to 98% with conventional chains using wax and oversizing chainrings and sprockets and you don't need to worry about splitting your frame to replace them... This is a very niche product but sounds like an interesting approach. The users of it likely won't care if it needs replacing every ride if it means saving watts and winning (olympic) races.
- layoutIfNeeded 6y ago>Europe has largely adopted it I'm a European cyclist and only ever seen conventional chains.
- gameswithgo 6y agonot as efficient though
- cptskippy 6y ago> Europe has largely adopted it I'm not sure you're using the term "largely adopted" correctly. It implies that something is the majority or norm, not a rare occurrence.
- shirakawasuna 6y agoAny idea of the sustainability of the Gates Carbon Drive system? Looks like it's made of polymer + carbon fiber. On the other hand, traditional chains eat+shed oil and grease.
- robga 6y agoMy Gates carbon belt is like new after 8 years riding my Schindelhauer Siegfried. I seem to remember 10 years quoted when I bought it.
- teva 6y agoMine is 5 years old still going strong and I commute everyday. But check this guy https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive-best-bicycle-drivetrain/ https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive-best-bicycle-drivetr...
- mauvehaus 6y agoI have to be honest, when IKEA launched the Sladda, I had high hope that they'd sell a zillion of them so I could pick one up barely used for a pittance in a couple years. Sadly, that seems to have not happened, and we'll have to wait a bit longer for the belt drive to become commonplace :-(
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jiofih 6y agoAs a counterpoint to all the other comments: EU, my electric bike has a belt. Most high end electrics do. Might not be the same outside of the cycle countries (nl, dk...).
- rconti 6y agoI've got a belt-drive "commuter bike" that doesn't get ridden much these days. It currently has a Gates Carbon Drive which I mostly like, and you're mostly correct. But it came with a Continental belt drive system that was awful. I snapped my first belt on it under load when it was about 6 months old. The damn thing always squeaked no matter how clean i tried to keep it. The rear wheel had to be on perfectly straight or sometimes the belt would slip one way or the other -- and of course, belt tension is very hard to get right. I think the gates system operates at lower tension than my continental did, which is a plus. I hope the Gates belt is stronger than the Continental one, but I don't know for sure. I think Ghost ultimately was willing to goodwill replace the continental trash with a complete Gates drive system because a continental belt could not be sourced anymore. But, I still have to worry about the nightmare of axle nuts, belt tension, removing the tiny nut from the hub to disconnect the shifting, and removing the brake caliper (!!!) to fix a flat.
- 8note 6y agoSounds like your next thing is to switch to tubeless tires so you don't have to do that so often
- lqet 6y ago> Europe has largely adopted it I live in a very bike-friendly European town. I use my bike daily. I have seen maybe 10 if these things in the last 3 years, mostly owned by elderly people who were sold high-end e-bikes they don't need.
- gerbler 6y agoI have a Gates Carbon drive too. It's extremely convenient, but my understanding is that it's lower efficiency compared to a well-mantained chain. Due to the practical challenges of maintaining a steel chain, I think Gates does well and it's a great commuter option.
- enriquto 6y ago> Europe has largely adopted it, I'm an avid leerer of other's bikes, and in my long and fruitful bike leering career in Europe, I have seen just one (1) gates drive.
- jacquesm 6y agoI disagree both about the adoption rate and the superiority of the tech. It only works if the frame can be opened up and this means the whole bike has to be designed around the belt drive system. It's a slow thing to do and quite expensive, whereas replacing a regular chain takes less than five minutes (it's a bit more messy though).