8 ms·

That's sad and unfair, another act of terrorism against what has been a peaceful country for quite a while, after all. Iran has been quite virtuous, while the U

by kome 6y ago

That's sad and unfair, another act of terrorism against what has been a peaceful country for quite a while, after all. Iran has been quite virtuous, while the US and its allies (Israel and Saudi Arabia) have been waging constant war. (Israel vs. Palestine and Jordan / Saudi Arabia against Yemen). That's deeply shameful. I wonder why isn’t there a “are we the baddies?” moment in the west…

rdxm 6y ago
the level of straight up bull shit in this post is quite something to behold....
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> Iran has been quite virtuous I don’t think we should be assassinating scientists. But Tehran has been no angel [1]. Which is sad, since their people are one of the more peaceful in the region, judging from the limited polling we have. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_ter...
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > Tehran has been no angel Neither have been its main nemesis, the Saudis, Israelis and the U.S. I find this kind of isolated statement doesn't help to explain anything, but paint the Iranians as irrational. I have 1000 problems with their form of government, but I don't think they are irrational.
  - eitland 6y ago
    > Neither have been its main nemesis, the Saudis, Israelis and the U.S. One of these is not like the others: Israel for all its warts has been quite consistent in leaving alone those who doesn't mess with them. Of course it makes competely sense given how they are consistently outnumbered in every way but quality, but still. They also have a long history of peaceful sharing of civilian technology etc etc.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      > Israel for all its warts has been quite consistent in leaving alone those who doesn't mess with them. Technically that's true of the Iranians too. You can't credibly say that Israel or the U.S. hasn't been 'messing with them' for ages, can you?
      - eitland 6y ago
        Iran funds Hezbollah that operates next to Israel. It is well known. Iran is suspected to fund and ship rockets that are used against Israel. I won't say it is confirmed but it will be no bif surprise if the rumors are confirmed. Iran officials often speak about eradicating Israel. The opposite never happens. Israel is not known to operate any milits in or around Iran, they are not suspected of shipping rockets to Irans neighbors and they are not known to talk enthusiastically about flattening Iran or killing its inhabitants. I think we can agree that it is a poorly kept secret that they are probably behind a number of assassinations, industrial espionage and possibly sabotage but the difference is still enormous.
        whimsicalism 6y ago
        > Iran funds Hezbollah that operates next to Israel Both Israel and the United States extensively fund political parties around the world, some of which have military wings. > Israel is not known to operate any milits in or around Iran, There is a long history of Israeli-funded paramilitaries in the region, I know someone who worked in one. They also funded militias in Syria. > they are not suspected of shipping rockets to Irans neighbors The US does that for them. > hey are not known to talk enthusiastically about flattening Iran or killing its inhabitants. Hamas offered Israel a ceasefire and Netanyahu responded by going on camera and ripping up the offer.
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      > leaving alone those who doesn't mess with them Like armenians?
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > Neither have been its main nemesis, the Saudis, Israelis and the U.S. I agree. OP said the Iranians have been virtuous. My point is nobody is virtuous in these sorts of conflicts. Washington has the original sin of supporting an authoritarian against the Iranian people. But we have supported bad leaders in lots of places, from Cuba and Korea to Vietnam, that didn’t start menacing their neighbours and sponsoring terrorists.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      > we have supported bad leaders in lots of places, from Cuba and Korea to Vietnam, that didn’t start menacing their neighbours and sponsoring terrorists I'd argue Cuba suffered worse sanctions than Iran and yeah, their government is much more humane than Iran's.
- equilibrium 6y ago
  Israel is by no means an angel either. 1. Assasination of Jacob Israël de Haan (1924), a Dutch-Jewish diplomat, for attempting to make a peace deal with the Emir of Mecca - his plan was a Palestinian state in a Jordanian federation, the Zionists would drop the Balfour declaration and any claim to a state in exchange for unrestricted immigration. He was assassinated when leaving a synagogue by Avraham Tehomi (who admitted to it much later), on the orders of Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, who later became the 2nd President of Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Isra%C3%ABl_de_Haan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Isra%C3%ABl_de_Haan 2. King David Hotel Bombing (1946) where right-wing Zionist terrorists attacked a British HQ located within the hotel killing 91 and injuring 46. The leader of the perpetrators, Manachem Begin became the Prime Minister of Israel in 1977 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing 3. USS Liberty (1967) where Israel deliberately attacked an American Cargo Vessel killing 34 without any repurcussions: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident 4. Deir Yassin Massacre (1948) where 110 villagers were slaughtered, some members of the perpetrators were at a later time, absorbed into the IDF, one even became PM of Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre 5. Document [1] from IDF archives (1948) which after translation states: "In the villages lying between Nahraiya and Tarshiha there are no foreign troops for the time being.The villages are armed and ready for action[2]. Your orders are to occupy, kill the men[3], destroy and burn down the villages of Kabri, Umm al-Faraj and al-Nahr." [1]https://i.redd.it/e8q5ore6vi231.jpg https://i.redd.it/e8q5ore6vi231.jpg [2] Ilan Pappe notes that the villagers had no proper arms, only for hunting purposes and people who served in the police; without Arab troops that were absent they stood no chance [2] In April 1948, the Intelligence of the Hagana defined men as anyone above the age of 10 6. Palestinian Exodus "Nakba" (1948) was an expulsion of 700,000 Palestinian Arabs from their Homeland during the war and establishment of Israel in May 1948, these includes testimonies of massacres, rape and looting: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-how-israel-systematically-hides-evidence-of-1948-expulsion-of-arabs-1.7435103 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-how-is... 7. Assassination of Folke Bernadotte, (1948) UN Mediator for Palestinian Refugees by Israel's Zionist Paramilitary Group, Lehi. The killing was approved by the three-man 'center' of Lehi, one of which, after the assassination, became 7th Prime Minister of Israel (Yitzhak Shamir). No one was convicted for the assassination: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte#Assassination https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte#Assassinati... These are just some of many incidents.
snicksnak 6y ago
> Iran has been quite virtuous They hang dissidents from cranes in the streets or straight up executing them after torturing a confession out of them.
shortandsweet 6y ago
I often struggle to become convinced of what to believe with these sorts of things. Is the media to be believed? Is this state or that nation bad? But, I know that during the Arab spring the Iranian revolutionary guard killed their own people. That removed all of my doubt, the Iranian government is bad. Anyone that would kill their own people are capable of much worse. They had no due process, no investigation, just killing in the streets. It didn't take the opinion of a news anchor for me to reach that conclusion, I saw it with my eyes.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  Agreed in general, but this standard needs to be applied uniformly, even when stories like [1] show up. 1 - https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201117/12384545723/government-argues-court-that-it-can-kill-us-citizens-will-with-zero-judicial-oversight.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201117/12384545723/gover...
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Israel sterilized its own black citizens in the 90s. Every country has killed its own people. The United States isn't morally bankrupt for winning the civil war.
- stunt 6y ago
  Not to mention, the current regime in Iran is in power as the result of previous interventions by the U.S. and the UK. And yet we think another regime change is going to fix the mess we created for them years ago.
ronyfadel 6y ago
And Iran arming and supporting Hezbollah in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Kuwait etc.. doesn’t sound so virtuous to me.
throwaway894345 6y ago
Whatever you think of it, it's not "terrorism" (the objective is presumably to deter a state nuclear weapons program and not specifically to frighten the masses). While any loss of life is unfortunate, and while the US and Israel are not without blemish, this assassination was very targeted (no collateral) and it plausibly deters Iran from advancing (and thus using) its nuclear weapons program. This seems like a pretty good deal on balance, at least for those who can accept that the world is not perfect and very often the loss of a single life is the best one can hope for to prevent the losses of tens or hundreds of thousands of lives. Anyway, I want to steer clear of the "which country is more evil?" question because it's so very unlikely to yield productive discourse (we can use enumeration fallacy to support whichever position we like even if we agree on core values).
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > it plausibly deters Iran from advancing (and thus using) its nuclear weapons program Having looked quite deeply into this, Iran does not currently have, nor peruses such a program. Meanwhile Israel not only does have a nuclear program, but refuses to sign any treaties regulating it.
  - hnracer 6y ago
    What do you make of the Israeli's sharing of intel to the public regarding a purported illegal nuclear weapons research program currently ongoing inside Iran. Is that evidence fabricated, and if so how do we know that?
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      Because there wasn't any new credible intelligence in there even per the U.S., which is no friend of Iran [1] and because Israel has been rehashing the same shit forever now. > Is that evidence fabricated, and if so how do we know that? It is generally up to the party offering evidence to prove its authenticity, not the other way around. 1 - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/netanyahu-s-info-iran-nukes-known-u-s-intelligence-years-n870456 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/netanyahu-s-info-iran-n...
eitland 6y ago
> Iran has been quite virtuous, Are we talking about the same Iran? Because the Iran I know funds Hezbollah. It's not a well kept secret either. > while the US and its allies (Israel and Saudi Arabia) have been waging constant war. (Israel vs. Palestine and Jordan / Saudi Arabia against Yemen). Are we talking about the same Israel? Because for all their warts the Israelis are extremely restrictive and has been for a couple of decades even in the face of constant missile attacks, tunnel digging etc etc. Even before that they have given away massive areas for peace agreements - and kept their part of the deal. I agree Palestinians are in a rough spot, but lets not forget an almost equal amount of Israelis/Jews were chased from their homes at the same time, and lets not forget that Israeli officials tried to get the locals to stay (because they were afraid to get carpet bombed if they were alone, but still.)
- milani 6y ago
  > Because the Iran I know funds Hezbollah Have you ever considered researching what Hezbollah is and is not? Or its origin and history? > Are we talking about the same Israel? It seems we are not! I think searching "occupied territory of Palestine" would shed some light on what we are talking about.
  - eitland 6y ago
    I've read books upon books on Israeli history, general middle East history, the Iran-Iraq conflict etc since I got interested back in 1994, so I'm probably more aware of many of the nuances than many others. I feel extremely sorry for the poor Palestinian people but I place the blame mostly where I think it fairly and squarely belongs: on the thoroughly botched UN. Also note that just because media keep repeating the Palestinian myth doesn't mean it is true. The has never been a Palestinian country before 1948 when Israel was created. It was always part of Syria, Iraq, Egypt or something else.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      > The has never been a Palestinian country before 1948 when Israel was created There were people who lived in a place and they were kicked out of their homes by the UN mandate. I don't think whether Palestine had been incorporated into the Western westphalian system is really relevant to the moral claims at hand.
Hnrobert42 6y ago
Calling Iran a “peaceful country” and “virtuous” is not supported by the facts. Iran develops nuclear weapons despite its negotiated agreements.[1] It engages in hostile acts throughout the region directly and through proxies like Hezbollah. [2] It interferes with domestic elections of other countries. [3] 1- https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-11-11/un-agency-iran-continues-to-stockpile-enrich-uranium https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-11-11/un-age... 2- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Persian_Gulf_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Persian_Gulf_crisis 3- https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/21/russia-iran-us-voter-data-security-fbi-election https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/21/russia-iran-...
- cochne 6y ago
  Perhaps [1] has something to do with this? "Iran has openly announced all violations of the nuclear deal in advance, which have followed the decision by the U.S. to pull out unilaterally in 2018."
  - Hnrobert42 6y ago
    As I responded to another comment, the other P5+1 members remained in the agreement. If Iran wishes to withdraw, it can.
- gitweb 6y ago
  The US breaks its negotiated agreements, engages in hostile acts throughout the world, and interferes in elections in other countries. If we were to believe America is a peaceful country, then we'd have to say the same about Iran.
  - Hnrobert42 6y ago
    You are changing the subject. My comment said nothing about whether the U.S. is a peaceful nation.
- aborsy 6y ago
  What the hell? US withdrew from agreement, took out enriched uranium, brought back and amplified sanctions, killed the head of the military... What are Iranian leaders supposed to do!
gadders 6y ago
I think this needs a "/s" on it.
- kome 6y ago
  nope

by kome 6y ago

rdxm 6y ago

the level of straight up bull shit in this post is quite something to behold....

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> Iran has been quite virtuous I don’t think we should be assassinating scientists. But Tehran has been no angel [1]. Which is sad, since their people are one of the more peaceful in the region, judging from the limited polling we have. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_ter...

AsyncAwait 6y ago
> Tehran has been no angel Neither have been its main nemesis, the Saudis, Israelis and the U.S. I find this kind of isolated statement doesn't help to explain anything, but paint the Iranians as irrational. I have 1000 problems with their form of government, but I don't think they are irrational.
- eitland 6y ago
  > Neither have been its main nemesis, the Saudis, Israelis and the U.S. One of these is not like the others: Israel for all its warts has been quite consistent in leaving alone those who doesn't mess with them. Of course it makes competely sense given how they are consistently outnumbered in every way but quality, but still. They also have a long history of peaceful sharing of civilian technology etc etc.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    > Israel for all its warts has been quite consistent in leaving alone those who doesn't mess with them. Technically that's true of the Iranians too. You can't credibly say that Israel or the U.S. hasn't been 'messing with them' for ages, can you?
    - eitland 6y ago
      Iran funds Hezbollah that operates next to Israel. It is well known. Iran is suspected to fund and ship rockets that are used against Israel. I won't say it is confirmed but it will be no bif surprise if the rumors are confirmed. Iran officials often speak about eradicating Israel. The opposite never happens. Israel is not known to operate any milits in or around Iran, they are not suspected of shipping rockets to Irans neighbors and they are not known to talk enthusiastically about flattening Iran or killing its inhabitants. I think we can agree that it is a poorly kept secret that they are probably behind a number of assassinations, industrial espionage and possibly sabotage but the difference is still enormous.
      - whimsicalism 6y ago
        > Iran funds Hezbollah that operates next to Israel Both Israel and the United States extensively fund political parties around the world, some of which have military wings. > Israel is not known to operate any milits in or around Iran, There is a long history of Israeli-funded paramilitaries in the region, I know someone who worked in one. They also funded militias in Syria. > they are not suspected of shipping rockets to Irans neighbors The US does that for them. > hey are not known to talk enthusiastically about flattening Iran or killing its inhabitants. Hamas offered Israel a ceasefire and Netanyahu responded by going on camera and ripping up the offer.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    > leaving alone those who doesn't mess with them Like armenians?
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > Neither have been its main nemesis, the Saudis, Israelis and the U.S. I agree. OP said the Iranians have been virtuous. My point is nobody is virtuous in these sorts of conflicts. Washington has the original sin of supporting an authoritarian against the Iranian people. But we have supported bad leaders in lots of places, from Cuba and Korea to Vietnam, that didn’t start menacing their neighbours and sponsoring terrorists.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    > we have supported bad leaders in lots of places, from Cuba and Korea to Vietnam, that didn’t start menacing their neighbours and sponsoring terrorists I'd argue Cuba suffered worse sanctions than Iran and yeah, their government is much more humane than Iran's.
equilibrium 6y ago
Israel is by no means an angel either. 1. Assasination of Jacob Israël de Haan (1924), a Dutch-Jewish diplomat, for attempting to make a peace deal with the Emir of Mecca - his plan was a Palestinian state in a Jordanian federation, the Zionists would drop the Balfour declaration and any claim to a state in exchange for unrestricted immigration. He was assassinated when leaving a synagogue by Avraham Tehomi (who admitted to it much later), on the orders of Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, who later became the 2nd President of Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Isra%C3%ABl_de_Haan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Isra%C3%ABl_de_Haan 2. King David Hotel Bombing (1946) where right-wing Zionist terrorists attacked a British HQ located within the hotel killing 91 and injuring 46. The leader of the perpetrators, Manachem Begin became the Prime Minister of Israel in 1977 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing 3. USS Liberty (1967) where Israel deliberately attacked an American Cargo Vessel killing 34 without any repurcussions: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident 4. Deir Yassin Massacre (1948) where 110 villagers were slaughtered, some members of the perpetrators were at a later time, absorbed into the IDF, one even became PM of Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre 5. Document [1] from IDF archives (1948) which after translation states: "In the villages lying between Nahraiya and Tarshiha there are no foreign troops for the time being.The villages are armed and ready for action[2]. Your orders are to occupy, kill the men[3], destroy and burn down the villages of Kabri, Umm al-Faraj and al-Nahr." [1]https://i.redd.it/e8q5ore6vi231.jpg https://i.redd.it/e8q5ore6vi231.jpg [2] Ilan Pappe notes that the villagers had no proper arms, only for hunting purposes and people who served in the police; without Arab troops that were absent they stood no chance [2] In April 1948, the Intelligence of the Hagana defined men as anyone above the age of 10 6. Palestinian Exodus "Nakba" (1948) was an expulsion of 700,000 Palestinian Arabs from their Homeland during the war and establishment of Israel in May 1948, these includes testimonies of massacres, rape and looting: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-how-israel-systematically-hides-evidence-of-1948-expulsion-of-arabs-1.7435103 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-how-is... 7. Assassination of Folke Bernadotte, (1948) UN Mediator for Palestinian Refugees by Israel's Zionist Paramilitary Group, Lehi. The killing was approved by the three-man 'center' of Lehi, one of which, after the assassination, became 7th Prime Minister of Israel (Yitzhak Shamir). No one was convicted for the assassination: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte#Assassination https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte#Assassinati... These are just some of many incidents.

snicksnak 6y ago

> Iran has been quite virtuous They hang dissidents from cranes in the streets or straight up executing them after torturing a confession out of them.

shortandsweet 6y ago

I often struggle to become convinced of what to believe with these sorts of things. Is the media to be believed? Is this state or that nation bad? But, I know that during the Arab spring the Iranian revolutionary guard killed their own people. That removed all of my doubt, the Iranian government is bad. Anyone that would kill their own people are capable of much worse. They had no due process, no investigation, just killing in the streets. It didn't take the opinion of a news anchor for me to reach that conclusion, I saw it with my eyes.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
Agreed in general, but this standard needs to be applied uniformly, even when stories like [1] show up. 1 - https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201117/12384545723/government-argues-court-that-it-can-kill-us-citizens-will-with-zero-judicial-oversight.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201117/12384545723/gover...
whimsicalism 6y ago
Israel sterilized its own black citizens in the 90s. Every country has killed its own people. The United States isn't morally bankrupt for winning the civil war.
stunt 6y ago
Not to mention, the current regime in Iran is in power as the result of previous interventions by the U.S. and the UK. And yet we think another regime change is going to fix the mess we created for them years ago.

ronyfadel 6y ago

And Iran arming and supporting Hezbollah in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Kuwait etc.. doesn’t sound so virtuous to me.

throwaway894345 6y ago

Whatever you think of it, it's not "terrorism" (the objective is presumably to deter a state nuclear weapons program and not specifically to frighten the masses). While any loss of life is unfortunate, and while the US and Israel are not without blemish, this assassination was very targeted (no collateral) and it plausibly deters Iran from advancing (and thus using) its nuclear weapons program. This seems like a pretty good deal on balance, at least for those who can accept that the world is not perfect and very often the loss of a single life is the best one can hope for to prevent the losses of tens or hundreds of thousands of lives. Anyway, I want to steer clear of the "which country is more evil?" question because it's so very unlikely to yield productive discourse (we can use enumeration fallacy to support whichever position we like even if we agree on core values).

AsyncAwait 6y ago
> it plausibly deters Iran from advancing (and thus using) its nuclear weapons program Having looked quite deeply into this, Iran does not currently have, nor peruses such a program. Meanwhile Israel not only does have a nuclear program, but refuses to sign any treaties regulating it.
- hnracer 6y ago
  What do you make of the Israeli's sharing of intel to the public regarding a purported illegal nuclear weapons research program currently ongoing inside Iran. Is that evidence fabricated, and if so how do we know that?
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    Because there wasn't any new credible intelligence in there even per the U.S., which is no friend of Iran [1] and because Israel has been rehashing the same shit forever now. > Is that evidence fabricated, and if so how do we know that? It is generally up to the party offering evidence to prove its authenticity, not the other way around. 1 - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/netanyahu-s-info-iran-nukes-known-u-s-intelligence-years-n870456 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/netanyahu-s-info-iran-n...

eitland 6y ago

> Iran has been quite virtuous, Are we talking about the same Iran? Because the Iran I know funds Hezbollah. It's not a well kept secret either. > while the US and its allies (Israel and Saudi Arabia) have been waging constant war. (Israel vs. Palestine and Jordan / Saudi Arabia against Yemen). Are we talking about the same Israel? Because for all their warts the Israelis are extremely restrictive and has been for a couple of decades even in the face of constant missile attacks, tunnel digging etc etc. Even before that they have given away massive areas for peace agreements - and kept their part of the deal. I agree Palestinians are in a rough spot, but lets not forget an almost equal amount of Israelis/Jews were chased from their homes at the same time, and lets not forget that Israeli officials tried to get the locals to stay (because they were afraid to get carpet bombed if they were alone, but still.)

milani 6y ago
> Because the Iran I know funds Hezbollah Have you ever considered researching what Hezbollah is and is not? Or its origin and history? > Are we talking about the same Israel? It seems we are not! I think searching "occupied territory of Palestine" would shed some light on what we are talking about.
- eitland 6y ago
  I've read books upon books on Israeli history, general middle East history, the Iran-Iraq conflict etc since I got interested back in 1994, so I'm probably more aware of many of the nuances than many others. I feel extremely sorry for the poor Palestinian people but I place the blame mostly where I think it fairly and squarely belongs: on the thoroughly botched UN. Also note that just because media keep repeating the Palestinian myth doesn't mean it is true. The has never been a Palestinian country before 1948 when Israel was created. It was always part of Syria, Iraq, Egypt or something else.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    > The has never been a Palestinian country before 1948 when Israel was created There were people who lived in a place and they were kicked out of their homes by the UN mandate. I don't think whether Palestine had been incorporated into the Western westphalian system is really relevant to the moral claims at hand.

Hnrobert42 6y ago

Calling Iran a “peaceful country” and “virtuous” is not supported by the facts. Iran develops nuclear weapons despite its negotiated agreements.[1] It engages in hostile acts throughout the region directly and through proxies like Hezbollah. [2] It interferes with domestic elections of other countries. [3] 1- https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-11-11/un-agency-iran-continues-to-stockpile-enrich-uranium https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-11-11/un-age... 2- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Persian_Gulf_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Persian_Gulf_crisis 3- https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/21/russia-iran-us-voter-data-security-fbi-election https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/21/russia-iran-...

cochne 6y ago
Perhaps [1] has something to do with this? "Iran has openly announced all violations of the nuclear deal in advance, which have followed the decision by the U.S. to pull out unilaterally in 2018."
- Hnrobert42 6y ago
  As I responded to another comment, the other P5+1 members remained in the agreement. If Iran wishes to withdraw, it can.
gitweb 6y ago
The US breaks its negotiated agreements, engages in hostile acts throughout the world, and interferes in elections in other countries. If we were to believe America is a peaceful country, then we'd have to say the same about Iran.
- Hnrobert42 6y ago
  You are changing the subject. My comment said nothing about whether the U.S. is a peaceful nation.
aborsy 6y ago
What the hell? US withdrew from agreement, took out enriched uranium, brought back and amplified sanctions, killed the head of the military... What are Iranian leaders supposed to do!

gadders 6y ago

I think this needs a "/s" on it.

kome 6y ago
nope