23 ms·

Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike

187 points by gjlemond 6y ago

an_opabinia 6y ago
A lot of people coming in and poo pooing a very nice, very well designed bike. Very pretty and conventional looking. At this price range it’s more comparable to a Stromer, which is at once a much more vehicle-replacement oriented bike but also a bike that looks like a “Das Bike.” It would be nice if this bike had insurance and tracking like the Vanmoofs do. As an owner of two and knowing other owners, this is a dealbreaker. One guy has even gotten his X3 chopped by kleptos, and is now enjoying his new free replacement bike. This definitely competes for looks though.
- rckclmbr 6y ago
  I have 15k miles on my stromer, and I use the words "vehicle replacement" all the time. To me, its not something to go out and enjoy like I do on my bikes. Its something that gets me to work or the grocery store and back. I mean yea its fun, but it saves gas, I never get stuck in traffic, and can always find parking.
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    I used to live in a place that was walkable to a lot of places, but VERY bikeable to everywhere else. It had very low car traffic at the worst of times. It was also hilly. My commute to work was also a bus; but, there was an optional bike path I could take. I strongly considered getting an electric bike to go about the "longer" distances than were easy by walking. These e-bikes are perfect for the "everything's within a couple miles" distance that's just a bit far for walking when you have other things you want to do. I love the concept of them, so long as you respect the reality that you're both a bike and a potentially very fast one for pedestrians.
jeffbee 6y ago
Seems pretty OK, I personally do prefer hub motor ebikes over mid-drive, but without any lugs for racks I don't know if this is truly the pinnacle of versatility. Also the handlebar is not the right place to mount the front light. I don't know why manufacturers keep making this mistake. I guess it's because Americans just don't understand the bicycle as a utility vehicle. The light belongs on the fork crown.
- compiler-guy 6y ago
  The lights are built in, so the handlebars are irrelevant.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    So? The lights are also integrated on a VanMoof, but they're integrated in the right place. They used to put them in the right place on the Specialized Turbo but in the latest models they moved it up the the bar again, can't imagine why.
    - compiler-guy 6y ago
      So complaining that they don’t have the right mount point for a light when one doesn’t need to be mounted shows that the product either isn’t a good fit for you, or that you are grasping at straws. I think it is unlikely that a carefully designed bike like this missed something simple like that. Much more likely you are kissing something.
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        It’s a simple matter of geometry. The bar is too high for the light to effectively light the road.
        taude 6y ago
        Why wouldn't the lights be tilted down from the bars? I have external lights on my bike that are mounted ABOVE the handlebars, and don't seem to have any problem illuminating the road in front of me?
        compiler-guy 6y ago
        The light isn’t mounted on the bar.
- dayofthedaleks 6y ago
  Thanks for pointing out the lack of rack attachment points. That is a design failure.
YawningAngel 6y ago
I'm always confused by people of working age who ride bikes like this. What's the attraction of a more expensive and heavier bike that's no faster than pedaling yourself?
- ginko 6y ago
  You don't have to pedal yourself.
  - madeofpalk 6y ago
    For what it's worth, you do have to pedal yourself (its e-assist), but you just don't have to pedal as hard.
    - kazinator 6y ago
      This is not what I see; these things go-go-go, even if the rider puts out no effort. I see people going over 40 km/h on e-bikes while basically just barely pretending to pedal.
      - madeofpalk 6y ago
        This is not true. Have you ever used one? I own one and cycle with it daily. It takes less effort to cycle, and so you can get faster speeds easier - my Vanmook would get it 30kmph with medium effort effort on flat roads, but then i can coast on that for a bit as it slows down (its not maintaining this speed through a motor). But you still have to cycle - it's not a motorbike.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  A typical bicycle rider only exerts about 100W. A bike with a 250W motor will more than triple your output. I don't know why this rig is limited to 20 MPH, other than they must have wanted to qualify for "class 2" regulation. It is probably powerful enough to act as a class 3 bike, with a software change.
- globular-toast 6y ago
_verandaguy 6y ago
Coming from conventional bikes, I don't understand who this is for. Carbon fibre frames are prohibitively expensive and the market for them serves very involved, often professional or semi-pro cyclists whose performance bottlenecks are imposed by the bike instead of themselves. Ditto for some of the other details on the bike, like the medium-dish carbon rims — all for the sake of weight savings and aerodynamics (since carbon bikes will usually integrate things like formed handlebars and seat tubes, etc). Suffice it to say, you'd rarely see a commuter using a carbon bike. This bike, though, feels like a bit of an oxymoron. Expensive carbon frame with none of the aero features you'd usually see on one, including conventional handlebars. A lightweight carbon frame weighed down by a battery. High-performance rims and tyres but only one chain ring. Low-profile seat stays with mud guards on both wheels. A utilitarian, commuter feature set with a price tag that makes no sense at all.
- robert_foss 6y ago
  > A lightweight carbon frame weighed down by a battery. My thoughts exactly. Who's the target audience? And at that price point?
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    The price point is comparable to the Specialized Turbo Vado 5 SL, a third-generation e-bike from another American company. The weight savings can make a big difference when you have to carry your bike up stairs or bring it on a train. Keep in mind that e-bikes compete with cars.
    - robert_foss 6y ago
      Maybe you're right. The Specialized Turbo Vado 5 SL seems to be 14.6kg, and this bike 11.8kg. If they're otherwise comparable maybe this bike actually makes some sense.
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        Both are lighter than most. Many e-bikes are over 50 pounds, sometimes way over. The Rad Runner is 75 pounds, the Strommer ST3 is 72 pounds, etc.
chrismorgan 6y ago
A remark from a web developer on the implementation of this site: On my laptop, scrolling by touch, when I reach the image immediately above the colours section, I can’t easily go any further, because the carousel thingy that takes up most of the screen has schnaffled touch actions, and is only translating them into horizontal scrolling of that component, even if my finger is moving perfectly vertically. This is a bad implementation, because it’s reimplementing something the browser already offers, badly. This is a form of scrolljacking, which is always bad on content sites (I have encountered no exceptions; in apps, there are a very small list of justifiable cases, e.g. maps to turn it into zooming, though it still won’t work perfectly no matter what you do, because the web just doesn’t expose the right primitives). What it should do instead is to make the carousel thing just a normal scrollable container (though still visually hiding the scrollbar), and leave the whole scrolling thing to the browser, with the assistance of CSS snap points if available, or some gentle touchend and similar watching to simulate its effect if it’s not. (Also, clicking on the names of the colours below the carousel is badly broken, doing nothing half the time, and taking you to the wrong slide half of the rest of the time, to say nothing of them having an overly small hit target—the whole row of “Blanc / matte finish; black decals” should be the hit target.)
- scoopdewoop 6y ago
  FWIW, lots of web devs here. Thats why this is in the guidelines: Please don't complain about website formatting, back-button breakage, and similar annoyances. They're too common to be interesting. Exception: when the author is present. Then friendly feedback might be helpful.
  - chrismorgan 6y ago
    Thank you for pulling me up on that—I’ve certainly complained about things I find particularly annoying before, but I do try to make such complaints valuable by explaining the technical side of things (why the problem occurred, and why it matters) and a solution, which I know other developers find helpful sometimes. Done in moderation, I reckon that normally satisfies that guideline (because it’s not just a complaint, but turns it into a teaching opportunity). Also, judging by the poster’s username, the author is probably present.
S_A_P 6y ago
I’m sure if I have to ask I can’t afford it but what is the sticker price on the base model? I browsed the prolog spec sheet but maybe I missed it?
- S_A_P 6y ago
  Sorry it was covered by the cookie handling pop up.
- hashworks 6y ago
  For anyone else ignoring the cookie popup, $4500.
akulkarni 6y ago
`xx points by gjlemond` Did... did Greg LeMond post this?
- simcop2387 6y ago
  maybe, it's a rather old account that's never been used before as near as i can tell
  - cududa 6y ago
    Probably his son Geoff.
    - gjlemond 6y ago
      Truth Cullen ;-)
      - mav3rick 6y ago
        Please tell your Dad I saw the 30 on 30 on him called "Slaying the badger". It's the most fantastic testament to his grit and achievements. If he's ever in SF, I would happily buy him coffee / beer :)
        gjlemond 6y ago
        Noted!
      - cdolan 6y ago
        Awesome bike. Miss ripping down Pioneer and Dreamcatcher with you guys. Hope you’re well.
        gjlemond 6y ago
        Yo yo- I recognize the last name and yc refs. First name to Jog the memory? (Geoff)
globular-toast 6y ago
~12kg for anyone wondering. Minimum bicycle weight in the Tour de France is 6.8kg (~15lb). It's possible to make bicycles significantly lighter than this, but most manufacturers don't because of the rules of the Tour. I do recommend to anyone who hasn't done it yet to take a moment and marvel at the technological accomplishment that is the bicycle. The car takes far too much credit but ultimately it can only work by burning fossil fuels. The bicycle, on the other hand, is a machine weighing less than 7kg, that is up to 99% efficient and enabled a human to travel 5x faster than walking with no extra energy required. Adding an electric motor to a bicycle removes much of the elegance for me. But still better than cars when it comes to moving sacks of meat around, of course.
- jlrubin 6y ago
  Minimum bike weights serve 2 important roles other than "it's just the rules": 1) Fairness: While differences between bike manufacturers are large, the competition is about primarily athletics & setting standards allows less well resourced rider teams to compete. 2) Safety: Lighter bikes may compromise on strength/safety. Tours are already dangerous enough as is, a bike breaking poses a danger to all riders on the course not just the rider. Weight minimums ensure that there's not an attempt to drop the structural weight below safe limits. That said, weights can be decreased over time if there are legitimately new weight saving technologies that do not compromise strength of the bike.
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    Yes. I didn't wish to get into the politics of the Tour de France but merely give readers a perspective on conventional bicycle weights.
  - masklinn 6y ago
    > 1) Fairness: While differences between bike manufacturers are large, the competition is about primarily athletics & setting standards allows less well resourced rider teams to compete. FWIW that's one of the reasons why F1s have a minimum weight (also allow for a wider ranges of driver physiques).
yalogin 6y ago
Who is this for? Seems to serve a really really niche user base. If someone wants a electric drive in a bike, it’s not for exercise, they want it for commute. It starts at around 5k, wouldn’t they rather go for a scooter/Vespa at that price? They are more practical for chores. The only reason to want a bike is to carry into the apartment if they don’t want to be bothered with parking. So a super niche crowd?
- jeffbee 6y ago
  You cannot put a Vespa on the bike rack of a bus. You cannot carry a Vespa on a train. You cannot check a Vespa as luggage at the airport. An e-bike is categorically different than a scooter.
  - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
    In the US, I don't think it'd actually be legal to travel on an airline with a battery the size of the one in this bike - it appears to be a 250 Wh unit, and I understand the legal limit for lithium ion batteries is 160 Wh.
    - masklinn 6y ago
      > I understand the legal limit for lithium ion batteries is 160 Wh. For two batteries, with airline approval. According to the TSA, this can alternatively be a single battery up to 300Wh, again with airline approval.
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  I honestly don't think it's that expensive, comparitively. Electric bikes are around £2000-£3000 (though both the new Vanmoof and Cowboy are right at £2000), so this seems to be just priced a bit more premium for a presumably lighter and more premium bike. Sadly it lacks things like the insurace/bike theft protection that others have, which is a huge deal breaker. I do like the look of this bike, and if i was a bit more richer i would definitely one. Looks nicer than my Vanmoof. > wouldn’t they rather go for a scooter/Vespa at that price They're different things. You can ride a bike in places where you can't ride a Vespa.
knolan 6y ago
At that price they’re competing with the Specialized Vado SL which weights 33 pounds. I’ve a regular Vado 4.0, which is much heavier, that I use for my 25 km commute. Granted this a lot cheaper than the Creo but you’re getting a known quantity when you buy a Specialized system.
m3kw9 6y ago
Does it need AWS for it to work?
giardini 6y ago
Why call it "Prolog" - there's a once-commonly-used AI computer language with that name? Bad, bad choice!
- cranekam 6y ago
  Bicycle stage races often have a "prologue" (typically a short time trial) before the regular racing of long, full-day starts. That is probably the inspiration for the name, and "prolog" is just an unconventional marketing spelling of it.
Scarbutt 6y ago
What does "Assistance up to 20 mph" mean?
- cranekam 6y ago
  Most e-bikes are "assisted" rather than having a motorcycle-style twist throttle. You pedal and the motor contributes some additional power until you reach a certain speed (typically 20mph in the US, 25kph in Europe). At this point the motor stops assisting and the rider is contributing 100% of the effort. If you stop pedalling the motor stops assisting, regardless of your speed. In other words the motor will help you accelerate to 20mph but beyond that it's just your legs pushing a heavy bike.
  - masklinn 6y ago
    > beyond that it's just your legs pushing a heavy bike. Much of this bike's point is that it's a lighweight e though, at only 26lbs.
    - cranekam 6y ago
      Of course — I was just describing ebikes in general.
phonebucket 6y ago
This looks like a nifty bit of kit, but even if I could afford it, I probably wouldn’t buy it. Personally, I’m happy to add weight in the form of a steel frame in order to gain longevity and comfort.
SigmundA 6y ago
I get wanting light weight, my current aluminum ebike is 80 lbs, but my current ebike is a Juiced Ripcurrent S fat tire with 1kWh battery and I completely out speed and out range my friend who has a Turbo Vado SL while being much more comfortable and spending 1k less. The main downside with the weight is getting up on a bike rack to drive it somewhere, but they have rack with ramps now designed for heavy ebikes. I know for sure my next bike will have full suspension, coming from mountain bikes then going back to just a hard tail was rough, even when just riding on pavement. Added a really good suspension seat post but still not like a full suspension. I am looking closely at Watt Wagons new Hydra carbon full suspension at 58lbs. They are doing some good stuff with the Bafang mid drive and upgraded controller. https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/ripcurrent-s https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/ripcurrent-s https://wattwagons.com/collections/hydra https://wattwagons.com/collections/hydra
- mrep 6y ago
  Is it really that bad on pavement as I am thinking about getting the ripcurrent s for commuting next year once wfh ends? That hydra does look pretty sweet though but I'm not sure if it is worth an extra 2k.
  - SigmundA 6y ago
    Its ok much better with a Kinekt 2.1 seat post, but after you get used to how plush a full suspension bike is its hard to go back. Its not just ride comfort but control too, the rear suspension helps keep the rear tire in contact with the road instead of bouncing around with the whole bike. Also why a mid drive is somewhat better with full suspension due to less unsprung weight. The Juiced RCS is a lot of bang for the buck, the battery is huge and mine will top out at 32mph on flat ground and go 40+ miles on charge without holding back. I have 1300 miles on mine with no issues. Also look at Biktrix.
- andrewem 6y ago
  I saw someone riding a cargo ebike with a kid on it and went home excited to get one. Then I discovered it weighs over 70 pounds, which I can’t imagine working since to get it to my basement storage area requires carrying up several steps then down several more through the cramped bulkhead door. Maybe some people are strong enough for that not to be a significant annoyance, but I’m not one of them.
dayofthedaleks 6y ago
Shame it only does pedal assist up to 20mph. I consider 28mph/Class III to be essential if one is riding around potentially hostile motorists. This is a decent-ish price for a rear hub motor plus exotic frame but my dream verson of this would have a mid drive motor by the pedal crank, a belt in place of chain, and an internally geared rear hub.
- busterarm 6y ago
  > This is a decent-ish price for a rear hub motor plus exotic frame but my dream verson of this would have a mid drive motor by the pedal crank, a belt in place of chain, and an internally geared rear hub. Very much this. It's weird seeing the fantastic products coming out of places like Luna who really understand the market and then this... I'm looking at picking up either a Fat BABE or a Galaxy right now even and haven't been able to really make up my mind.
carapace 6y ago
Reminds me of Amory Lovins' "Hypercar": > The Hypercar is a design concept car developed by energy analyst Amory Lovins at the Rocky Mountain Institute. This vehicle would have ultra-light construction with an aerodynamic body using advanced composite materials, low-drag design, and hybrid drive. Designers of the Hypercar claim that it would achieve a three- to five-fold improvement in fuel economy, equal or better performance, safety, amenity, and[clarification needed], (sic) compared with today's cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercar_(concept_car) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercar_(concept_car)
underseacables 6y ago
LeMond is way behind here, and it seems like another last gasp for the spotlight before he’s resigned to history.
anonAndOn 6y ago
It's a very nice looking bike. However, as a bike commuter I prefer something that can handle the bumps and scratches of being in a bike rack next to other commuters which is one reason why I ride aluminum frames (the other being cost). Build this in aluminum and drop the sticker price and you are approaching the e-bike holy trinity of affordability, durability and usability. ps - if gjlemond is actually Greg... holy crap! You are an inspiration, sir.[0] [0]https://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/a27681555/greg-lemond-1989/ https://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/a27681555/greg-lemo...
- reportingsjr 6y ago
  There are already bikes that hit the points you're talking about. I've been seeing a ton of RadPower bikes around town lately, specifically because they hit the key points of being affordable, durable, and very usable. https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radmission-electric-metro-bike https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radmission-electric-m...
fiftyacorn 6y ago
Great to see the lemond brand back after that armstrong stuff Lemond was always a big hero of mine
pgt 6y ago
All roads lead to Prolog :) (that's the name of the bike model - not in the post title)
KerrickStaley 6y ago
For what it's worth, the Taiwanese company Gogoro already has an e-bike on the market that ships to the USA (the Eeyo 1s) that has the same weight, same range, and same motor wattage at the same price point. The design is a little more stylish too in my opinion, although it lacks fenders (which the Prolog has). [1] [2] Personally, I've looked at the Eeyo bike but can't really justify the price, given that you can buy a very nice full carbon non-electric bike from Bikes Direct for less than half the price. Even Gogoro's core product, an electric scooter, which is much faster, powerful, and more versatile, retails for less. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/28/21344679/gogoro-eeyo-1s-e-bike-review-score-price-date https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/28/21344679/gogoro-eeyo-1s-e... [2] https://eeyo.bike/us/ https://eeyo.bike/us/
- DenisM 6y ago
  eeyo is single-speed tho, LeMond has gears.
- johnwatson11218 6y ago
  One point in favor of the eBikes is that no matter how hot it got here in Arizona I was able to do some riding every day of the summer. So long as I had enough water and covered up my skin it seemed OK to hit the trails when it was 115 degrees. On a normal bike I stop attempting rides at about 104.
deleted 6y ago
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someonehere 6y ago
I’m going to date how old I am. I remember when LeMond was the spokesperson for Taco Bell at the height of his career. It’s weird hearing his name again and that memory being triggered in me.
tonylemesmer 6y ago
Love that Greg Lemond has been lurking on here for 8 years for this moment ;) Edit: Ah ok Geoff not Greg.
binarycodedhex 6y ago
Are beryllium or carbon fiber frames lighter?
Rokesmith 6y ago
Just a reminder that LeMond is credited with the great aphorism of cycling: "It never gets any easier, you just go faster." Fitting that he's associated with solutions to that particular conflict.
daviddaviddavid 6y ago
I've been waiting my entire career for my twin loves of cycling and logic programming to combine, but this is not what I expected!
maelito 6y ago
I'm building a website to document a gravel bike build, including links to buy the parts, price, weight, tips. I would be happy to know if this kind of open specs for bike builds exist already. It's far from solid and in French for now, sorry. https://github.com/laem/velolibre https://github.com/laem/velolibre The bike components are described in YAML. https://github.com/laem/velolibre/blob/master/vélos/1.yaml https://github.com/laem/velolibre/blob/master/vélos/1.yaml
infocollector 6y ago
This might be of interest to people who are looking at this bike -> https://nireeka.com/ https://nireeka.com/
ck2 6y ago
Whatever happened to that 3 pound bike? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/superstrata-bike https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/superstrata-bike Would rather have that than a 26 pound e-bike.
- QuotedForTruth 6y ago
  The frame weighs 3 lbs, not the whole bike. The bike weighs 16.5 lbs which is a normal lightweight bike weight. Their e-bike supposedly weighs 24 lbs.
outside1234 6y ago
I'm not sure who this product is for. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful product design. But at $4500, with straight bars, it clearly isn't for racers and at that price point, not for commuters either.
- reportingsjr 6y ago
  This is definitely targeted at middle aged people who want to have a fast bike to enjoy nice ride around town, but aren't nearly as fit as a "race" level road biker. This is probably a much bigger segment than you think. There are lots of middle aged people with tons of disposable income (as evidenced by the mid life crisis sports care trope) that like the idea of exercising, but don't want to put in the pain and effort of getting to the fitness level where mild climbs, higher speeds, etc are doable.
  - johnwatson11218 6y ago
    If only they could make the tires easy to fix when you get a flat. Some of these high end tires are nearly impossible to change when you are out on the road.
- jjav 6y ago
  It's clearly not for racers, it has a motor in it. Take a look at the prices for ebikes from similar reputable companies. $4500 is nowhere near the high end, so this is a pretty reasonable price for a commuter ebike. And at 26lbs definitely light for an ebike.
- t-writescode 6y ago
  Why not for commuters? If you're a well-to-do software engineer that lives 10 hilly miles from work, but with great bike paths the whole way, this is a perfect vehicle as with the electric assist, you're not going to work up a sweat on your way!
bombela 6y ago
Assist Up to 20 mph ~ 32 km/h Range 45 miles ~ 72 km Power 250 watts Weight 26 lb. ~ 11.8 kg
cpsempek 6y ago
Beautiful bike, but very disappointed to see a standard drivetrain. For a commuter I'm only interested in one with a belt drive and internal gearing. I'm not sure why these drivetrains are not becoming more common, especially for commuters.
- CamperBob2 6y ago
  Two things I've learned never to criticize on HN: derailleurs and rail transit. Fair warning...
  - cpsempek 6y ago
    Haha wasn't aware of this, but making note now.
- reportingsjr 6y ago
  Belt drives can be nice, but the reason they aren't as common is because they are incredibly expensive, unless you're getting a single speed which many, many people aren't going to want. I don't know if part of the reason they are so expensive is because they are a niche bike item, and bike stuff is already hideously overpriced, or if there is another reason.
  - cpsempek 6y ago
    Fair point, but this isn't a cheap bike, so maybe at least make the option available? I also am not certain on the exact reasons why internal gear hubs and belt drives are more expensive. I imagine manufacturing those hubs are more costly just by the nature of their design. It also used to be the case that you needed a specific frame built for a belt drive to run one, but they make breakable belts now so that's no longer a huge restriction. I have heard in Europe where bike commuting is far more common in the US where I'm living that belt drive and internal gearing are more common, but this was hearsay.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      Internal gearing is generally a lot heavier as well as being more expensive. Looking at the priorities on this build, I suspect that was as important as price.
exabrial 6y ago
My carbon full squish XCO bike weighs 26lbs. That's impressive.
mulmen 6y ago
This is really cool from a tech perspective. I’m sure it’s a great product too. The thing that bothers me about e-bikes in the US specifically is that we seem to be rediscovering scooters but worse. Among other things I am a motorcycle rider. I took the class. Before the pandemic I commuted on a 1970 Honda CB450. I know the risks, and the rules. These are mopeds at best. Electric motorcycles at worst. Europe and especially Asia already understand the benefits of scooters and traffic understands they exist. Taiepi even has special striping at lights to make scooter filtering safe and easy! I am optimistic that these kinds of devices will get more people on two-wheeled personal transportation but I’m concerned about the people going 30mph on bike paths or riding in the road with no education. Tangentially I’m disappointed that electric drive has translated to “no rules” on roads and bike paths. If I ride a 1980 Yamaha moped on a bike path people will look at me like I’m a maniac but I can go 50% faster on a bicycle and nobody seems to care.
- closeparen 6y ago
  Class 1 ebikes go no faster than an athletic cyclist would (20mph), and most bike lanes / paths are restricted to those. Another gambit I've seen that tends to moderate my speed on an ebike is a "green wave" tuned for 13mph. No point going any faster.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    Sure but where I live there is precisely zero enforcement of speed or capability. You also have to consider the effect of adding orders of magnitude more “athletic riders” to bike paths. Especially when the new riders are new to the speeds. And when pedestrians are used to having fast cyclists ride in the road, which is the norm here. Ebikes are nothing short of a menace on my local bike path.
  - brudgers 6y ago
    If the path is mixed with pedestrians, 20mph on a bicycle is irresponsible whether peddling or ebiking.
    - 6y ago
whazor 6y ago
Note that carbon fiber bikes cannot have child seats or other heavy attachments.
floatingatoll 6y ago
If I still lived in Eugene I would consider this a godsend for local exploration of all the non-road bike trails. Sure, I’m happy to explore them anyways, but being able to conserve my energy on hot days and get home sooner during a rainstorm would be invaluable. I don’t ever intend to be competitive, but it’s nice to go further in the same amount of wall clock time.

187 points by gjlemond 6y ago

A lot of people coming in and poo pooing a very nice, very well designed bike. Very pretty and conventional looking. At this price range it’s more comparable to a Stromer, which is at once a much more vehicle-replacement oriented bike but also a bike that looks like a “Das Bike.” It would be nice if this bike had insurance and tracking like the Vanmoofs do. As an owner of two and knowing other owners, this is a dealbreaker. One guy has even gotten his X3 chopped by kleptos, and is now enjoying his new free replacement bike. This definitely competes for looks though.

rckclmbr 6y ago
I have 15k miles on my stromer, and I use the words "vehicle replacement" all the time. To me, its not something to go out and enjoy like I do on my bikes. Its something that gets me to work or the grocery store and back. I mean yea its fun, but it saves gas, I never get stuck in traffic, and can always find parking.
- t-writescode 6y ago
  I used to live in a place that was walkable to a lot of places, but VERY bikeable to everywhere else. It had very low car traffic at the worst of times. It was also hilly. My commute to work was also a bus; but, there was an optional bike path I could take. I strongly considered getting an electric bike to go about the "longer" distances than were easy by walking. These e-bikes are perfect for the "everything's within a couple miles" distance that's just a bit far for walking when you have other things you want to do. I love the concept of them, so long as you respect the reality that you're both a bike and a potentially very fast one for pedestrians.

jeffbee 6y ago

Seems pretty OK, I personally do prefer hub motor ebikes over mid-drive, but without any lugs for racks I don't know if this is truly the pinnacle of versatility. Also the handlebar is not the right place to mount the front light. I don't know why manufacturers keep making this mistake. I guess it's because Americans just don't understand the bicycle as a utility vehicle. The light belongs on the fork crown.

compiler-guy 6y ago
The lights are built in, so the handlebars are irrelevant.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  So? The lights are also integrated on a VanMoof, but they're integrated in the right place. They used to put them in the right place on the Specialized Turbo but in the latest models they moved it up the the bar again, can't imagine why.
  - compiler-guy 6y ago
    So complaining that they don’t have the right mount point for a light when one doesn’t need to be mounted shows that the product either isn’t a good fit for you, or that you are grasping at straws. I think it is unlikely that a carefully designed bike like this missed something simple like that. Much more likely you are kissing something.
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      It’s a simple matter of geometry. The bar is too high for the light to effectively light the road.
      - taude 6y ago
        Why wouldn't the lights be tilted down from the bars? I have external lights on my bike that are mounted ABOVE the handlebars, and don't seem to have any problem illuminating the road in front of me?
      - compiler-guy 6y ago
        The light isn’t mounted on the bar.
dayofthedaleks 6y ago
Thanks for pointing out the lack of rack attachment points. That is a design failure.

YawningAngel 6y ago

I'm always confused by people of working age who ride bikes like this. What's the attraction of a more expensive and heavier bike that's no faster than pedaling yourself?

ginko 6y ago
You don't have to pedal yourself.
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  For what it's worth, you do have to pedal yourself (its e-assist), but you just don't have to pedal as hard.
  - kazinator 6y ago
    This is not what I see; these things go-go-go, even if the rider puts out no effort. I see people going over 40 km/h on e-bikes while basically just barely pretending to pedal.
    - madeofpalk 6y ago
      This is not true. Have you ever used one? I own one and cycle with it daily. It takes less effort to cycle, and so you can get faster speeds easier - my Vanmook would get it 30kmph with medium effort effort on flat roads, but then i can coast on that for a bit as it slows down (its not maintaining this speed through a motor). But you still have to cycle - it's not a motorbike.
jeffbee 6y ago
A typical bicycle rider only exerts about 100W. A bike with a 250W motor will more than triple your output. I don't know why this rig is limited to 20 MPH, other than they must have wanted to qualify for "class 2" regulation. It is probably powerful enough to act as a class 3 bike, with a software change.
globular-toast 6y ago

_verandaguy 6y ago

Coming from conventional bikes, I don't understand who this is for. Carbon fibre frames are prohibitively expensive and the market for them serves very involved, often professional or semi-pro cyclists whose performance bottlenecks are imposed by the bike instead of themselves. Ditto for some of the other details on the bike, like the medium-dish carbon rims — all for the sake of weight savings and aerodynamics (since carbon bikes will usually integrate things like formed handlebars and seat tubes, etc). Suffice it to say, you'd rarely see a commuter using a carbon bike. This bike, though, feels like a bit of an oxymoron. Expensive carbon frame with none of the aero features you'd usually see on one, including conventional handlebars. A lightweight carbon frame weighed down by a battery. High-performance rims and tyres but only one chain ring. Low-profile seat stays with mud guards on both wheels. A utilitarian, commuter feature set with a price tag that makes no sense at all.

robert_foss 6y ago
> A lightweight carbon frame weighed down by a battery. My thoughts exactly. Who's the target audience? And at that price point?
- jeffbee 6y ago
  The price point is comparable to the Specialized Turbo Vado 5 SL, a third-generation e-bike from another American company. The weight savings can make a big difference when you have to carry your bike up stairs or bring it on a train. Keep in mind that e-bikes compete with cars.
  - robert_foss 6y ago
    Maybe you're right. The Specialized Turbo Vado 5 SL seems to be 14.6kg, and this bike 11.8kg. If they're otherwise comparable maybe this bike actually makes some sense.
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      Both are lighter than most. Many e-bikes are over 50 pounds, sometimes way over. The Rad Runner is 75 pounds, the Strommer ST3 is 72 pounds, etc.

chrismorgan 6y ago

A remark from a web developer on the implementation of this site: On my laptop, scrolling by touch, when I reach the image immediately above the colours section, I can’t easily go any further, because the carousel thingy that takes up most of the screen has schnaffled touch actions, and is only translating them into horizontal scrolling of that component, even if my finger is moving perfectly vertically. This is a bad implementation, because it’s reimplementing something the browser already offers, badly. This is a form of scrolljacking, which is always bad on content sites (I have encountered no exceptions; in apps, there are a very small list of justifiable cases, e.g. maps to turn it into zooming, though it still won’t work perfectly no matter what you do, because the web just doesn’t expose the right primitives). What it should do instead is to make the carousel thing just a normal scrollable container (though still visually hiding the scrollbar), and leave the whole scrolling thing to the browser, with the assistance of CSS snap points if available, or some gentle touchend and similar watching to simulate its effect if it’s not. (Also, clicking on the names of the colours below the carousel is badly broken, doing nothing half the time, and taking you to the wrong slide half of the rest of the time, to say nothing of them having an overly small hit target—the whole row of “Blanc / matte finish; black decals” should be the hit target.)

scoopdewoop 6y ago
FWIW, lots of web devs here. Thats why this is in the guidelines: Please don't complain about website formatting, back-button breakage, and similar annoyances. They're too common to be interesting. Exception: when the author is present. Then friendly feedback might be helpful.
- chrismorgan 6y ago
  Thank you for pulling me up on that—I’ve certainly complained about things I find particularly annoying before, but I do try to make such complaints valuable by explaining the technical side of things (why the problem occurred, and why it matters) and a solution, which I know other developers find helpful sometimes. Done in moderation, I reckon that normally satisfies that guideline (because it’s not just a complaint, but turns it into a teaching opportunity). Also, judging by the poster’s username, the author is probably present.

S_A_P 6y ago

I’m sure if I have to ask I can’t afford it but what is the sticker price on the base model? I browsed the prolog spec sheet but maybe I missed it?

S_A_P 6y ago
Sorry it was covered by the cookie handling pop up.
hashworks 6y ago
For anyone else ignoring the cookie popup, $4500.

akulkarni 6y ago

`xx points by gjlemond` Did... did Greg LeMond post this?

simcop2387 6y ago
maybe, it's a rather old account that's never been used before as near as i can tell
- cududa 6y ago
  Probably his son Geoff.
  - gjlemond 6y ago
    Truth Cullen ;-)
    - mav3rick 6y ago
      Please tell your Dad I saw the 30 on 30 on him called "Slaying the badger". It's the most fantastic testament to his grit and achievements. If he's ever in SF, I would happily buy him coffee / beer :)
      - gjlemond 6y ago
        Noted!
    - cdolan 6y ago
      Awesome bike. Miss ripping down Pioneer and Dreamcatcher with you guys. Hope you’re well.
      - gjlemond 6y ago
        Yo yo- I recognize the last name and yc refs. First name to Jog the memory? (Geoff)

globular-toast 6y ago

~12kg for anyone wondering. Minimum bicycle weight in the Tour de France is 6.8kg (~15lb). It's possible to make bicycles significantly lighter than this, but most manufacturers don't because of the rules of the Tour. I do recommend to anyone who hasn't done it yet to take a moment and marvel at the technological accomplishment that is the bicycle. The car takes far too much credit but ultimately it can only work by burning fossil fuels. The bicycle, on the other hand, is a machine weighing less than 7kg, that is up to 99% efficient and enabled a human to travel 5x faster than walking with no extra energy required. Adding an electric motor to a bicycle removes much of the elegance for me. But still better than cars when it comes to moving sacks of meat around, of course.

jlrubin 6y ago
Minimum bike weights serve 2 important roles other than "it's just the rules": 1) Fairness: While differences between bike manufacturers are large, the competition is about primarily athletics & setting standards allows less well resourced rider teams to compete. 2) Safety: Lighter bikes may compromise on strength/safety. Tours are already dangerous enough as is, a bike breaking poses a danger to all riders on the course not just the rider. Weight minimums ensure that there's not an attempt to drop the structural weight below safe limits. That said, weights can be decreased over time if there are legitimately new weight saving technologies that do not compromise strength of the bike.
- globular-toast 6y ago
  Yes. I didn't wish to get into the politics of the Tour de France but merely give readers a perspective on conventional bicycle weights.
- masklinn 6y ago
  > 1) Fairness: While differences between bike manufacturers are large, the competition is about primarily athletics & setting standards allows less well resourced rider teams to compete. FWIW that's one of the reasons why F1s have a minimum weight (also allow for a wider ranges of driver physiques).

yalogin 6y ago

Who is this for? Seems to serve a really really niche user base. If someone wants a electric drive in a bike, it’s not for exercise, they want it for commute. It starts at around 5k, wouldn’t they rather go for a scooter/Vespa at that price? They are more practical for chores. The only reason to want a bike is to carry into the apartment if they don’t want to be bothered with parking. So a super niche crowd?

jeffbee 6y ago
You cannot put a Vespa on the bike rack of a bus. You cannot carry a Vespa on a train. You cannot check a Vespa as luggage at the airport. An e-bike is categorically different than a scooter.
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  In the US, I don't think it'd actually be legal to travel on an airline with a battery the size of the one in this bike - it appears to be a 250 Wh unit, and I understand the legal limit for lithium ion batteries is 160 Wh.
  - masklinn 6y ago
    > I understand the legal limit for lithium ion batteries is 160 Wh. For two batteries, with airline approval. According to the TSA, this can alternatively be a single battery up to 300Wh, again with airline approval.
madeofpalk 6y ago
I honestly don't think it's that expensive, comparitively. Electric bikes are around £2000-£3000 (though both the new Vanmoof and Cowboy are right at £2000), so this seems to be just priced a bit more premium for a presumably lighter and more premium bike. Sadly it lacks things like the insurace/bike theft protection that others have, which is a huge deal breaker. I do like the look of this bike, and if i was a bit more richer i would definitely one. Looks nicer than my Vanmoof. > wouldn’t they rather go for a scooter/Vespa at that price They're different things. You can ride a bike in places where you can't ride a Vespa.

knolan 6y ago

At that price they’re competing with the Specialized Vado SL which weights 33 pounds. I’ve a regular Vado 4.0, which is much heavier, that I use for my 25 km commute. Granted this a lot cheaper than the Creo but you’re getting a known quantity when you buy a Specialized system.

m3kw9 6y ago

Does it need AWS for it to work?

giardini 6y ago

Why call it "Prolog" - there's a once-commonly-used AI computer language with that name? Bad, bad choice!

cranekam 6y ago
Bicycle stage races often have a "prologue" (typically a short time trial) before the regular racing of long, full-day starts. That is probably the inspiration for the name, and "prolog" is just an unconventional marketing spelling of it.

Scarbutt 6y ago

What does "Assistance up to 20 mph" mean?

cranekam 6y ago
Most e-bikes are "assisted" rather than having a motorcycle-style twist throttle. You pedal and the motor contributes some additional power until you reach a certain speed (typically 20mph in the US, 25kph in Europe). At this point the motor stops assisting and the rider is contributing 100% of the effort. If you stop pedalling the motor stops assisting, regardless of your speed. In other words the motor will help you accelerate to 20mph but beyond that it's just your legs pushing a heavy bike.
- masklinn 6y ago
  > beyond that it's just your legs pushing a heavy bike. Much of this bike's point is that it's a lighweight e though, at only 26lbs.
  - cranekam 6y ago
    Of course — I was just describing ebikes in general.

phonebucket 6y ago

This looks like a nifty bit of kit, but even if I could afford it, I probably wouldn’t buy it. Personally, I’m happy to add weight in the form of a steel frame in order to gain longevity and comfort.

SigmundA 6y ago

I get wanting light weight, my current aluminum ebike is 80 lbs, but my current ebike is a Juiced Ripcurrent S fat tire with 1kWh battery and I completely out speed and out range my friend who has a Turbo Vado SL while being much more comfortable and spending 1k less. The main downside with the weight is getting up on a bike rack to drive it somewhere, but they have rack with ramps now designed for heavy ebikes. I know for sure my next bike will have full suspension, coming from mountain bikes then going back to just a hard tail was rough, even when just riding on pavement. Added a really good suspension seat post but still not like a full suspension. I am looking closely at Watt Wagons new Hydra carbon full suspension at 58lbs. They are doing some good stuff with the Bafang mid drive and upgraded controller. https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/ripcurrent-s https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/ripcurrent-s https://wattwagons.com/collections/hydra https://wattwagons.com/collections/hydra

mrep 6y ago
Is it really that bad on pavement as I am thinking about getting the ripcurrent s for commuting next year once wfh ends? That hydra does look pretty sweet though but I'm not sure if it is worth an extra 2k.
- SigmundA 6y ago
  Its ok much better with a Kinekt 2.1 seat post, but after you get used to how plush a full suspension bike is its hard to go back. Its not just ride comfort but control too, the rear suspension helps keep the rear tire in contact with the road instead of bouncing around with the whole bike. Also why a mid drive is somewhat better with full suspension due to less unsprung weight. The Juiced RCS is a lot of bang for the buck, the battery is huge and mine will top out at 32mph on flat ground and go 40+ miles on charge without holding back. I have 1300 miles on mine with no issues. Also look at Biktrix.
andrewem 6y ago
I saw someone riding a cargo ebike with a kid on it and went home excited to get one. Then I discovered it weighs over 70 pounds, which I can’t imagine working since to get it to my basement storage area requires carrying up several steps then down several more through the cramped bulkhead door. Maybe some people are strong enough for that not to be a significant annoyance, but I’m not one of them.

dayofthedaleks 6y ago

Shame it only does pedal assist up to 20mph. I consider 28mph/Class III to be essential if one is riding around potentially hostile motorists. This is a decent-ish price for a rear hub motor plus exotic frame but my dream verson of this would have a mid drive motor by the pedal crank, a belt in place of chain, and an internally geared rear hub.

busterarm 6y ago
> This is a decent-ish price for a rear hub motor plus exotic frame but my dream verson of this would have a mid drive motor by the pedal crank, a belt in place of chain, and an internally geared rear hub. Very much this. It's weird seeing the fantastic products coming out of places like Luna who really understand the market and then this... I'm looking at picking up either a Fat BABE or a Galaxy right now even and haven't been able to really make up my mind.

carapace 6y ago

Reminds me of Amory Lovins' "Hypercar": > The Hypercar is a design concept car developed by energy analyst Amory Lovins at the Rocky Mountain Institute. This vehicle would have ultra-light construction with an aerodynamic body using advanced composite materials, low-drag design, and hybrid drive. Designers of the Hypercar claim that it would achieve a three- to five-fold improvement in fuel economy, equal or better performance, safety, amenity, and[clarification needed], (sic) compared with today's cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercar_(concept_car) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercar_(concept_car)

underseacables 6y ago

LeMond is way behind here, and it seems like another last gasp for the spotlight before he’s resigned to history.

anonAndOn 6y ago

It's a very nice looking bike. However, as a bike commuter I prefer something that can handle the bumps and scratches of being in a bike rack next to other commuters which is one reason why I ride aluminum frames (the other being cost). Build this in aluminum and drop the sticker price and you are approaching the e-bike holy trinity of affordability, durability and usability. ps - if gjlemond is actually Greg... holy crap! You are an inspiration, sir.[0] [0]https://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/a27681555/greg-lemond-1989/ https://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/a27681555/greg-lemo...

reportingsjr 6y ago
There are already bikes that hit the points you're talking about. I've been seeing a ton of RadPower bikes around town lately, specifically because they hit the key points of being affordable, durable, and very usable. https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radmission-electric-metro-bike https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radmission-electric-m...

fiftyacorn 6y ago

Great to see the lemond brand back after that armstrong stuff Lemond was always a big hero of mine

pgt 6y ago

All roads lead to Prolog :) (that's the name of the bike model - not in the post title)

KerrickStaley 6y ago

For what it's worth, the Taiwanese company Gogoro already has an e-bike on the market that ships to the USA (the Eeyo 1s) that has the same weight, same range, and same motor wattage at the same price point. The design is a little more stylish too in my opinion, although it lacks fenders (which the Prolog has). [1] [2] Personally, I've looked at the Eeyo bike but can't really justify the price, given that you can buy a very nice full carbon non-electric bike from Bikes Direct for less than half the price. Even Gogoro's core product, an electric scooter, which is much faster, powerful, and more versatile, retails for less. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/28/21344679/gogoro-eeyo-1s-e-bike-review-score-price-date https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/28/21344679/gogoro-eeyo-1s-e... [2] https://eeyo.bike/us/ https://eeyo.bike/us/

DenisM 6y ago
eeyo is single-speed tho, LeMond has gears.
johnwatson11218 6y ago
One point in favor of the eBikes is that no matter how hot it got here in Arizona I was able to do some riding every day of the summer. So long as I had enough water and covered up my skin it seemed OK to hit the trails when it was 115 degrees. On a normal bike I stop attempting rides at about 104.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

someonehere 6y ago

I’m going to date how old I am. I remember when LeMond was the spokesperson for Taco Bell at the height of his career. It’s weird hearing his name again and that memory being triggered in me.

tonylemesmer 6y ago

Love that Greg Lemond has been lurking on here for 8 years for this moment ;) Edit: Ah ok Geoff not Greg.

binarycodedhex 6y ago

Are beryllium or carbon fiber frames lighter?

Rokesmith 6y ago

Just a reminder that LeMond is credited with the great aphorism of cycling: "It never gets any easier, you just go faster." Fitting that he's associated with solutions to that particular conflict.

daviddaviddavid 6y ago

I've been waiting my entire career for my twin loves of cycling and logic programming to combine, but this is not what I expected!

maelito 6y ago

I'm building a website to document a gravel bike build, including links to buy the parts, price, weight, tips. I would be happy to know if this kind of open specs for bike builds exist already. It's far from solid and in French for now, sorry. https://github.com/laem/velolibre https://github.com/laem/velolibre The bike components are described in YAML. https://github.com/laem/velolibre/blob/master/vélos/1.yaml https://github.com/laem/velolibre/blob/master/vélos/1.yaml

infocollector 6y ago

This might be of interest to people who are looking at this bike -> https://nireeka.com/ https://nireeka.com/

ck2 6y ago

Whatever happened to that 3 pound bike? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/superstrata-bike https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/superstrata-bike Would rather have that than a 26 pound e-bike.

QuotedForTruth 6y ago
The frame weighs 3 lbs, not the whole bike. The bike weighs 16.5 lbs which is a normal lightweight bike weight. Their e-bike supposedly weighs 24 lbs.

outside1234 6y ago

I'm not sure who this product is for. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful product design. But at $4500, with straight bars, it clearly isn't for racers and at that price point, not for commuters either.

reportingsjr 6y ago
This is definitely targeted at middle aged people who want to have a fast bike to enjoy nice ride around town, but aren't nearly as fit as a "race" level road biker. This is probably a much bigger segment than you think. There are lots of middle aged people with tons of disposable income (as evidenced by the mid life crisis sports care trope) that like the idea of exercising, but don't want to put in the pain and effort of getting to the fitness level where mild climbs, higher speeds, etc are doable.
- johnwatson11218 6y ago
  If only they could make the tires easy to fix when you get a flat. Some of these high end tires are nearly impossible to change when you are out on the road.
jjav 6y ago
It's clearly not for racers, it has a motor in it. Take a look at the prices for ebikes from similar reputable companies. $4500 is nowhere near the high end, so this is a pretty reasonable price for a commuter ebike. And at 26lbs definitely light for an ebike.
t-writescode 6y ago
Why not for commuters? If you're a well-to-do software engineer that lives 10 hilly miles from work, but with great bike paths the whole way, this is a perfect vehicle as with the electric assist, you're not going to work up a sweat on your way!

bombela 6y ago

Assist Up to 20 mph ~ 32 km/h Range 45 miles ~ 72 km Power 250 watts Weight 26 lb. ~ 11.8 kg

cpsempek 6y ago

Beautiful bike, but very disappointed to see a standard drivetrain. For a commuter I'm only interested in one with a belt drive and internal gearing. I'm not sure why these drivetrains are not becoming more common, especially for commuters.

CamperBob2 6y ago
Two things I've learned never to criticize on HN: derailleurs and rail transit. Fair warning...
- cpsempek 6y ago
  Haha wasn't aware of this, but making note now.
reportingsjr 6y ago
Belt drives can be nice, but the reason they aren't as common is because they are incredibly expensive, unless you're getting a single speed which many, many people aren't going to want. I don't know if part of the reason they are so expensive is because they are a niche bike item, and bike stuff is already hideously overpriced, or if there is another reason.
- cpsempek 6y ago
  Fair point, but this isn't a cheap bike, so maybe at least make the option available? I also am not certain on the exact reasons why internal gear hubs and belt drives are more expensive. I imagine manufacturing those hubs are more costly just by the nature of their design. It also used to be the case that you needed a specific frame built for a belt drive to run one, but they make breakable belts now so that's no longer a huge restriction. I have heard in Europe where bike commuting is far more common in the US where I'm living that belt drive and internal gearing are more common, but this was hearsay.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Internal gearing is generally a lot heavier as well as being more expensive. Looking at the priorities on this build, I suspect that was as important as price.

exabrial 6y ago

My carbon full squish XCO bike weighs 26lbs. That's impressive.

mulmen 6y ago

This is really cool from a tech perspective. I’m sure it’s a great product too. The thing that bothers me about e-bikes in the US specifically is that we seem to be rediscovering scooters but worse. Among other things I am a motorcycle rider. I took the class. Before the pandemic I commuted on a 1970 Honda CB450. I know the risks, and the rules. These are mopeds at best. Electric motorcycles at worst. Europe and especially Asia already understand the benefits of scooters and traffic understands they exist. Taiepi even has special striping at lights to make scooter filtering safe and easy! I am optimistic that these kinds of devices will get more people on two-wheeled personal transportation but I’m concerned about the people going 30mph on bike paths or riding in the road with no education. Tangentially I’m disappointed that electric drive has translated to “no rules” on roads and bike paths. If I ride a 1980 Yamaha moped on a bike path people will look at me like I’m a maniac but I can go 50% faster on a bicycle and nobody seems to care.

closeparen 6y ago
Class 1 ebikes go no faster than an athletic cyclist would (20mph), and most bike lanes / paths are restricted to those. Another gambit I've seen that tends to moderate my speed on an ebike is a "green wave" tuned for 13mph. No point going any faster.
- mulmen 6y ago
  Sure but where I live there is precisely zero enforcement of speed or capability. You also have to consider the effect of adding orders of magnitude more “athletic riders” to bike paths. Especially when the new riders are new to the speeds. And when pedestrians are used to having fast cyclists ride in the road, which is the norm here. Ebikes are nothing short of a menace on my local bike path.
- brudgers 6y ago
  If the path is mixed with pedestrians, 20mph on a bicycle is irresponsible whether peddling or ebiking.
  - 6y ago

whazor 6y ago

Note that carbon fiber bikes cannot have child seats or other heavy attachments.

floatingatoll 6y ago

If I still lived in Eugene I would consider this a godsend for local exploration of all the non-road bike trails. Sure, I’m happy to explore them anyways, but being able to conserve my energy on hot days and get home sooner during a rainstorm would be invaluable. I don’t ever intend to be competitive, but it’s nice to go further in the same amount of wall clock time.