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I'm type 1. I used to believe artificial sweeteners caused the body to raise its blood sugar because the drink is perceived to be sweet, but when I got a CGM I

I'm type 1. I used to believe artificial sweeteners caused the body to raise its blood sugar because the drink is perceived to be sweet, but when I got a CGM I was able to verify that they do not. I'd be interested in a switched label test with CGMs and T1s because a potential insulin response would be absent. I realize this study is qualified (type 2, preprandial < 200mgdl, lab setting, fake labels, short term) and laud the potential connection between stress and elevated fasting glucose (seems similar to the connection between sleep and elevated glucose.) I've read the study and am just adding a personal anecdote to the thread.

mtgx 6y ago
Some do, some don't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYfqvTZWilw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYfqvTZWilw
arleny 6y ago
I could be wrong, but it seems like there's a distinction between perceived sugar (amount of sugar in drink) as mentioned in the study and perceived sweetness (how sweet the drink tastes) which is what you're referring to.
- 1123581321 6y ago
  You’re right. I tried to make my disclaimer thorough enough. :) However, unless there’s something particular about the visual vs. the taste path, there should be some overlap. I think the anticipation (stress) is the part of this study with the most interesting implications to me.
  - arleny 6y ago
    Agreed. My girlfriend is t1 diabetic and during periods of stress (recently, starting a new job) her blood glucose becomes much more sporadic.
milesvp 6y ago
I’ve done a certain amount of research around GI due to my wife twice having gestational diabetes, and it was hard to find good numbers in general, but I couldn’t find any numbers related to artificial sweetners. I did find a lot of people claiming artificial sweetners didn’t cause a rise in glucose, which makes sense because the only way to get glucose would be for the liver to release glucose as a response. What I don’t know definitely is whether or not artificial sweetners cause an insulin response (though there seems to he a growing body of evidence that some do cause the pancreas to produce insulin). There also seems to be a growing body of evidence that artificial sweeteners cause gut bacterial changes ( which, as I write this, makes me wonder if my current gastro intestinal drama might be related to a recent reintroduction of diet soda in my diet...). I will say as an anecdote, that I find intermittent fasting (skipping breakfast and late lunch) much easier when I have diet soda than when I have tea with sugar in the morning.
- tharkun__ 6y ago
  This. Kind of, since I just don't drink any soda but I still find that skipping breakfast and having late lunch (or dinner only) is much easier if I didn't have carbs for breakfast. Coffee and a waffle with syrup will make me hungry by lunch. Coffee only or with butter/coconut oil means no hunger until much later. It's like the body "knows" there must be more carbs out there if you recently had some and wants more. If there were no carbs it "assumes" there aren't more so if no extra food is added (we ate all the mammoth meat yesterday and now we gotta go hunt first) I'll just use up the fat stores.
gazzini 6y ago
I’m not diabetic, but I’m using a CGM for a few weeks, out of curiosity. My only surprising finding was that diet sodas don’t spike my glucose, but they do crash it, probably because my insulin response is triggered by perceived sweetness.
- 1123581321 6y ago
  That is interesting. My response is flat, but of course my insulin production is all but non-existent.
- nikkwong 6y ago
  How did you get it prescribed? I can't get my doctor to give me one.
  - gazzini 6y ago
    I have a friend who is a doctor. He was using it himself & offered to write me an Rx. I’m now doing it a second time, using the levels health app [0]. If you can make it to the front of their massive waiting list (and don’t mind paying their fee), it’s the easiest way to get one. [0]: https://www.levelshealth.com https://www.levelshealth.com
    - novok 6y ago
      What did the doctor write to get it covered by insurance? How much does levels cost?
      - gazzini 6y ago
        It wasn’t covered by insurance, but the Freestyle Libre CGM was $37 at CVS & lasts for 2 weeks. The major cost factor (for most people) is getting a doctor to write you an Rx. Levels is around $400, but all you have to do is fill out a form online & wait. They get a doctor to evaluate your profile & write an Rx, and then they fill the prescription & send it to you with patches & everything. Their app also does more data analysis than the default Libre app, and it puts the food-log directly on the glucose graph, which is surprisingly useful.
moralestapia 6y ago
(Speculation) I believe it has more to do with the psychological effect of "knowing" beforehand that you are about to consume a high amount of sugar. In the case of artificial sweeteners you know it's going to be sweet, yes, but you also already know that it is not real sugar and you are somehow "safe", and so, the stress involved is diminished.
kazinator 6y ago
> artificial sweeteners caused the body to raise its blood sugar because the drink is perceived to be sweet This is subtly different from the effects claimed by the study, namely that blood sugar can change simply due to the test subject believing that a drink has high sugar content. Substances other than sugar can affect the sugar balance. This is why dogs can die from hypoglycemic shock if they consume xylitol. Their body is fooled into thinking its sugar, and the insulin response then evacuates the actual sugar from their bloodstream.
- buu700 6y ago
  That's pretty interesting. Is it due to the taste, i.e. can it be replicated with any non-caloric or low-calorie sweetener, or is it an effect specific to xylitol (or sugar alcohols in general)?
  - omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
    I think it's a combination of taste and calorie content that can throw things off. https://news.yale.edu/2020/03/03/yale-study-may-help-resolve-bitter-debate-over-low-cal-sweeteners https://news.yale.edu/2020/03/03/yale-study-may-help-resolve...
- 1123581321 6y ago
  Yes, which suggests a stress connection. Xylitol in dogs is a unique, (sadly) predictable toxicology, like their reaction to chocolate, and is more like what the human reaction to drinking artificial sweeteners would be, if humans had a similar vulnerability.
  - malkia 6y ago
    My wife always has headaches after trying to consume any sugar-alternatives - be it chocolate, coca cola, or chewing gum...
    - 1123581321 6y ago
      I get those sometimes. It’s fair to say they are not exactly aids to well-being.

mtgx 6y ago

Some do, some don't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYfqvTZWilw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYfqvTZWilw

arleny 6y ago

I could be wrong, but it seems like there's a distinction between perceived sugar (amount of sugar in drink) as mentioned in the study and perceived sweetness (how sweet the drink tastes) which is what you're referring to.

1123581321 6y ago
You’re right. I tried to make my disclaimer thorough enough. :) However, unless there’s something particular about the visual vs. the taste path, there should be some overlap. I think the anticipation (stress) is the part of this study with the most interesting implications to me.
- arleny 6y ago
  Agreed. My girlfriend is t1 diabetic and during periods of stress (recently, starting a new job) her blood glucose becomes much more sporadic.

milesvp 6y ago

I’ve done a certain amount of research around GI due to my wife twice having gestational diabetes, and it was hard to find good numbers in general, but I couldn’t find any numbers related to artificial sweetners. I did find a lot of people claiming artificial sweetners didn’t cause a rise in glucose, which makes sense because the only way to get glucose would be for the liver to release glucose as a response. What I don’t know definitely is whether or not artificial sweetners cause an insulin response (though there seems to he a growing body of evidence that some do cause the pancreas to produce insulin). There also seems to be a growing body of evidence that artificial sweeteners cause gut bacterial changes ( which, as I write this, makes me wonder if my current gastro intestinal drama might be related to a recent reintroduction of diet soda in my diet...). I will say as an anecdote, that I find intermittent fasting (skipping breakfast and late lunch) much easier when I have diet soda than when I have tea with sugar in the morning.

tharkun__ 6y ago
This. Kind of, since I just don't drink any soda but I still find that skipping breakfast and having late lunch (or dinner only) is much easier if I didn't have carbs for breakfast. Coffee and a waffle with syrup will make me hungry by lunch. Coffee only or with butter/coconut oil means no hunger until much later. It's like the body "knows" there must be more carbs out there if you recently had some and wants more. If there were no carbs it "assumes" there aren't more so if no extra food is added (we ate all the mammoth meat yesterday and now we gotta go hunt first) I'll just use up the fat stores.

gazzini 6y ago

I’m not diabetic, but I’m using a CGM for a few weeks, out of curiosity. My only surprising finding was that diet sodas don’t spike my glucose, but they do crash it, probably because my insulin response is triggered by perceived sweetness.

1123581321 6y ago
That is interesting. My response is flat, but of course my insulin production is all but non-existent.
nikkwong 6y ago
How did you get it prescribed? I can't get my doctor to give me one.
- gazzini 6y ago
  I have a friend who is a doctor. He was using it himself & offered to write me an Rx. I’m now doing it a second time, using the levels health app [0]. If you can make it to the front of their massive waiting list (and don’t mind paying their fee), it’s the easiest way to get one. [0]: https://www.levelshealth.com https://www.levelshealth.com
  - novok 6y ago
    What did the doctor write to get it covered by insurance? How much does levels cost?
    - gazzini 6y ago
      It wasn’t covered by insurance, but the Freestyle Libre CGM was $37 at CVS & lasts for 2 weeks. The major cost factor (for most people) is getting a doctor to write you an Rx. Levels is around $400, but all you have to do is fill out a form online & wait. They get a doctor to evaluate your profile & write an Rx, and then they fill the prescription & send it to you with patches & everything. Their app also does more data analysis than the default Libre app, and it puts the food-log directly on the glucose graph, which is surprisingly useful.

moralestapia 6y ago

(Speculation) I believe it has more to do with the psychological effect of "knowing" beforehand that you are about to consume a high amount of sugar. In the case of artificial sweeteners you know it's going to be sweet, yes, but you also already know that it is not real sugar and you are somehow "safe", and so, the stress involved is diminished.

kazinator 6y ago

> artificial sweeteners caused the body to raise its blood sugar because the drink is perceived to be sweet This is subtly different from the effects claimed by the study, namely that blood sugar can change simply due to the test subject believing that a drink has high sugar content. Substances other than sugar can affect the sugar balance. This is why dogs can die from hypoglycemic shock if they consume xylitol. Their body is fooled into thinking its sugar, and the insulin response then evacuates the actual sugar from their bloodstream.

buu700 6y ago
That's pretty interesting. Is it due to the taste, i.e. can it be replicated with any non-caloric or low-calorie sweetener, or is it an effect specific to xylitol (or sugar alcohols in general)?
- omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
  I think it's a combination of taste and calorie content that can throw things off. https://news.yale.edu/2020/03/03/yale-study-may-help-resolve-bitter-debate-over-low-cal-sweeteners https://news.yale.edu/2020/03/03/yale-study-may-help-resolve...
1123581321 6y ago
Yes, which suggests a stress connection. Xylitol in dogs is a unique, (sadly) predictable toxicology, like their reaction to chocolate, and is more like what the human reaction to drinking artificial sweeteners would be, if humans had a similar vulnerability.
- malkia 6y ago
  My wife always has headaches after trying to consume any sugar-alternatives - be it chocolate, coca cola, or chewing gum...
  - 1123581321 6y ago
    I get those sometimes. It’s fair to say they are not exactly aids to well-being.