10 ms·

I'm curious what's the typical salary for devs at Japanese startups. I'm assuming it should at least be higher than megacorps which, from what I understand, are

I'm curious what's the typical salary for devs at Japanese startups. I'm assuming it should at least be higher than megacorps which, from what I understand, are more traditional and based on years spent at the company. I also wonder how much culture clash there are for foreigners working at these companies e.g. how do they handle conflicts or disagreements with seniority.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
Japanese employee to employer relationships are like working in a normal corporate environment however there is no negotiation and the raises are small. The trade-off is their decent salaries and you have stable employment.
tjpnz 6y ago
>I also wonder how much culture clash there are for foreigners working at these companies e.g. how do they handle conflicts or disagreements with seniority. Can't speak for startups but megacorps started in the last 10 years tend to be pretty chill places to work with good pay and perks. My current team is managed by a foreigner and there's a 50/50 split between local and foreign engineers. I haven't personally had any issues attributable to culture, they can still happen but you tend to have to go looking for them.
cirno 6y ago
Exceptions abound, but in general software development jobs even at smaller studios pay a lot less in Japan than in the US. In Tokyo you'd expect to make around 400,000 yen a month, which is about $3500 a month. That sounds nice until you see that a 400sqft apartment with no bedrooms can cost 100,000 yen or more. A one bedroom can hit 150,000 - 200,000 yen in a nice area with convenient access to train stations. Edit: the website linked has good statistics on this: https://www.tokyodev.com/2020/01/07/japan-developer-salaries/ https://www.tokyodev.com/2020/01/07/japan-developer-salaries... Notably, "this 2018 survey conducted by the Japanese government found that the average "System Engineer" (a roughly analogous position to a software developer) in Japan had 12 years of experience and an annual compensation of ¥5.5 million."
- mehrzad 6y ago
  It's fascinating to me hearing about how Hong Kong and Tokyo have similar cost of living to even some of the most expensive metros in the US, but the pay isn't as competitive. It makes me wonder why the market hasn't adjusted (by people moving to smaller cities, pay raises, etc).
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    We have the same issue in Canada as well. Toronto and Vancouver, our two most expensive cities, have salaries below many other cities while having some of the highest housing costs.
    - smnrchrds 6y ago
      It's not Canada or Japan or UK that is special, it's the US. If you imagine US tech salary levels are normal, you would come to the conclusion that the entire rest of the world underpays their developers. But at that point, wouldn't it be more accurate to say other countries' salaries ought to be what defines 'normal' and US salaries are the exceptional case, not the other way around?
  - robjan 6y ago
    I live in Hong Kong. We have 0% capital gains tax, 0% dividend tax and my effective income tax is around 5%. Many people get this down to 0% by getting married, having kids, giving money to their parents, offsetting against mortgage interest payments etc. Healthcare is a lot cheaper than in the US too. Living here is definitely workable. Adding to that, most people live with their family until they get married in their early thirties and over half of the permanent resident population live in very heavily subsidised public housing.
    - gautamcgoel 6y ago
      How do you like HK? Would you recommend it to an American?
  - ehnto 6y ago
m3at 6y ago
Your question is too broad, but to give at least one data point: a data science dev with a few years of experience (1 to 5), can expect between ¥6M and ¥12M/year in a startup. > it should at least be higher than megacorps Yes, with exceptions > how much culture clash there are for foreigners In my subjective and limited experience, not much. Start-ups in Japan are rare (compared to most tech cities), Japanese founders/employees often do not want to emulate the working culture of big companies, on the contrary they might work in a startup to avoid it. Knowledge of English and living abroad experience also seem more common than average
wirthjason 6y ago
I’m American, my wife is Japanese, we have a young half daughter. (I also studied Japanese in college and lived here, so it would be a good culture fit for myself.) When I’ve broadly looked into working in Japan the pay seems to be better for foreign companies than domestic ones. But on the whole, I think the job opportunities are less. A large foreign company like say Google or an international bank will pay more competitive wages than a domestic company. While startups likely have more variability in pay the same pattern holds. I’ve seen ranges senior devs that are for approx $70k USD. That’s a huge pay cut for someone coming from the US. If you were teaching English in Japan that would be a huge step up however. Similarly culture will be better for a foreign company than a domestic one — hours, overtime, company politics, etc. Your language ability would also be a critical factor. Consequently, for me, it seems better to develop a career in the US and visit Japan. Now a company that is 100% remote that would allow you to live anywhere in the world and pay US wages would be an interesting opportunity.
- mikeomoto 6y ago
  > Seems better to develop a career in the US and visit Japan There's another school of thought here; there's actually a lot of value that you could bring by emphasizing the fact that you can act as a bridge between foreign engineers and japanese ones.
- ehnto 6y ago
  > Now a company that is 100% remote that would allow you to live anywhere in the world and pay US wages would be an interesting opportunity. They exist, but you don't just get free reign to work wherever you want. Most countries tax systems are not well equipped to handle international income, so you have to figure that out for every country you stay in, or try to fly under the radar and potentially commit a felony in a foreign country. It's getting better though, with some countries starting to offer specific visas and tax options for digital nomad style living.
  - suyash 6y ago
    yes, most companies that allow remote work pay according to cost of living
zeronone 6y ago
Here are some good resources on tech salaries in Tokyo/Japan. https://japan-dev.com/blog/software-developer-salaries-in-japan-the-ultimate-guide https://japan-dev.com/blog/software-developer-salaries-in-ja... https://opensalary.jp/en/ https://opensalary.jp/en/

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

Japanese employee to employer relationships are like working in a normal corporate environment however there is no negotiation and the raises are small. The trade-off is their decent salaries and you have stable employment.

tjpnz 6y ago

>I also wonder how much culture clash there are for foreigners working at these companies e.g. how do they handle conflicts or disagreements with seniority. Can't speak for startups but megacorps started in the last 10 years tend to be pretty chill places to work with good pay and perks. My current team is managed by a foreigner and there's a 50/50 split between local and foreign engineers. I haven't personally had any issues attributable to culture, they can still happen but you tend to have to go looking for them.

cirno 6y ago

Exceptions abound, but in general software development jobs even at smaller studios pay a lot less in Japan than in the US. In Tokyo you'd expect to make around 400,000 yen a month, which is about $3500 a month. That sounds nice until you see that a 400sqft apartment with no bedrooms can cost 100,000 yen or more. A one bedroom can hit 150,000 - 200,000 yen in a nice area with convenient access to train stations. Edit: the website linked has good statistics on this: https://www.tokyodev.com/2020/01/07/japan-developer-salaries/ https://www.tokyodev.com/2020/01/07/japan-developer-salaries... Notably, "this 2018 survey conducted by the Japanese government found that the average "System Engineer" (a roughly analogous position to a software developer) in Japan had 12 years of experience and an annual compensation of ¥5.5 million."

mehrzad 6y ago
It's fascinating to me hearing about how Hong Kong and Tokyo have similar cost of living to even some of the most expensive metros in the US, but the pay isn't as competitive. It makes me wonder why the market hasn't adjusted (by people moving to smaller cities, pay raises, etc).
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  We have the same issue in Canada as well. Toronto and Vancouver, our two most expensive cities, have salaries below many other cities while having some of the highest housing costs.
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    It's not Canada or Japan or UK that is special, it's the US. If you imagine US tech salary levels are normal, you would come to the conclusion that the entire rest of the world underpays their developers. But at that point, wouldn't it be more accurate to say other countries' salaries ought to be what defines 'normal' and US salaries are the exceptional case, not the other way around?
- robjan 6y ago
  I live in Hong Kong. We have 0% capital gains tax, 0% dividend tax and my effective income tax is around 5%. Many people get this down to 0% by getting married, having kids, giving money to their parents, offsetting against mortgage interest payments etc. Healthcare is a lot cheaper than in the US too. Living here is definitely workable. Adding to that, most people live with their family until they get married in their early thirties and over half of the permanent resident population live in very heavily subsidised public housing.
  - gautamcgoel 6y ago
    How do you like HK? Would you recommend it to an American?
- ehnto 6y ago

m3at 6y ago

Your question is too broad, but to give at least one data point: a data science dev with a few years of experience (1 to 5), can expect between ¥6M and ¥12M/year in a startup. > it should at least be higher than megacorps Yes, with exceptions > how much culture clash there are for foreigners In my subjective and limited experience, not much. Start-ups in Japan are rare (compared to most tech cities), Japanese founders/employees often do not want to emulate the working culture of big companies, on the contrary they might work in a startup to avoid it. Knowledge of English and living abroad experience also seem more common than average

wirthjason 6y ago

I’m American, my wife is Japanese, we have a young half daughter. (I also studied Japanese in college and lived here, so it would be a good culture fit for myself.) When I’ve broadly looked into working in Japan the pay seems to be better for foreign companies than domestic ones. But on the whole, I think the job opportunities are less. A large foreign company like say Google or an international bank will pay more competitive wages than a domestic company. While startups likely have more variability in pay the same pattern holds. I’ve seen ranges senior devs that are for approx $70k USD. That’s a huge pay cut for someone coming from the US. If you were teaching English in Japan that would be a huge step up however. Similarly culture will be better for a foreign company than a domestic one — hours, overtime, company politics, etc. Your language ability would also be a critical factor. Consequently, for me, it seems better to develop a career in the US and visit Japan. Now a company that is 100% remote that would allow you to live anywhere in the world and pay US wages would be an interesting opportunity.

mikeomoto 6y ago
> Seems better to develop a career in the US and visit Japan There's another school of thought here; there's actually a lot of value that you could bring by emphasizing the fact that you can act as a bridge between foreign engineers and japanese ones.
ehnto 6y ago
> Now a company that is 100% remote that would allow you to live anywhere in the world and pay US wages would be an interesting opportunity. They exist, but you don't just get free reign to work wherever you want. Most countries tax systems are not well equipped to handle international income, so you have to figure that out for every country you stay in, or try to fly under the radar and potentially commit a felony in a foreign country. It's getting better though, with some countries starting to offer specific visas and tax options for digital nomad style living.
- suyash 6y ago
  yes, most companies that allow remote work pay according to cost of living

zeronone 6y ago

Here are some good resources on tech salaries in Tokyo/Japan. https://japan-dev.com/blog/software-developer-salaries-in-japan-the-ultimate-guide https://japan-dev.com/blog/software-developer-salaries-in-ja... https://opensalary.jp/en/ https://opensalary.jp/en/