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For the first time in Europe, registrations for EVs overtook diesel
- ginko 6y agoI wonder if this is completely true. There were quite a few electric vehicles around 1900 while cars with diesel engines were rather uncommon at that point in time.
- swlkr 6y agoI’m not sure if you had to register your car in 1900 So there may have been more electric cars in 1900 but not more electric car registrations
- robin_reala 6y agoVehicle registration has been required in the UK since 1904.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y agoSo far, you are ahead in these Olympics of pedantry.
- pp19dd 6y agoFrance required identifying plates as early as 1783 for horse carriages in various form and then made it standardized as of August 14, 1893. Germany followed in 1896, to keep track of its growing vehicles. First state in USA, New York, required registrations as of April 25, 1901. And Britain required them as of January 1, 1904.
- swlkr 6y agoI stand corrected
- pp19dd 6y agoNot sure that you really should. Or that you were incorrect. The 'rounded year 1900' was the very onset of both vehicle conversion to horseless, and the onset of registration legislations, but not necessarily its enforcement. It's reasonable to think that compliance will always trail behind regulations. But in the grand scheme of things, we've never had more horseless cars in circulation than today, in 2020. The electric ratios of 1900 we're talking about are rounding errors by comparison to today. But what I find fascinating most of all that it's been a hundred years and we're having similar conversations, again. Hundred years ago there were massive arguments about traffic pollution in the cities. However, it revolved around horseshit in the streets. People welcomed the newfangled gas belching cars and hailed them as the clean wave of the future.
- xorcist 6y agoAccording to wikipedia, the first diesel car sold commercially was in 1933 (Citroën Rosalie). "In history" can probably be seen as relative to that. Most electric car companies were bankrupt before 1920, however I would be surprised if not some application survived, making your statement technically correct.
- abrowne 6y agoHard to compare since the "27 markets in Europe" didn't all exist in 1900 either.
- rich_sasha 6y agoSounds like good news, but... the way the headline reads, gives me some disquiet. Diesels gained popularity as the more eco-friendly, efficient car, justifying their higher price tag. Then it turned out to be a lie. Now they are replaced by the more eco-friendly, efficient electric cars. I hope it doesn't end the same way this time!
- jhoechtl 6y agoWhat part of it is a lie? It's only a lie if you have been indoctrinated by EPA because of hegemonial car politics in the US favouring gas. Diesel still is more efficient than electro taking the whole supply chain into account. The lack of efficiency of e-vehicles is only justified if you have a "I do not care about efficiency" power source = the sun. And even in that case its questionable if the required ressources to produce, distribute and refurbish batteries will ever outcompete the production ressource requirements of carbon fuel. Not to speak about that you can pour every diesel in every car, this is not true for car batteries.
- sideshowb 6y agoElectric beats diesel even on the current UK grid mix which still heavily relies on natural gas. This is far from "not caring about efficiency". It just turns out a centralized big turbine plus electrical distribution is more efficient than ICE in every vehicle.
- jhoechtl 6y agoI fully understand the thermodynamics of ICEs and that every electric motor in a car is easily more efficient in converting power into torque. However the efficiency of converting sun into electricity is around 35%. While driving your car carries a heavy battery of 100es of kilogramms which can only store 1/3 of energy per volume compared to eg. Diesel. So in my calculation the net efficiency of diesel is higher.
- theluketaylor 6y ago
- conradfr 6y agoIn other news France faces power cuts and electricity rationing as shortage threatens [1] (despite announcing the contrary last June). [1] https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1362163/france-electricity-shortage-blackout-RTE https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1362163/france-electric...
- paulez 6y agoNo power cut so far https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/la-consommation-delectricite-en-france# https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/la-consommation-delectric... It might happen if the temperature drops below average for several days, we're not there yet.
- patd 6y agoIsn't it mostly due to the fact that half of France France warms itself using electricity ?
- eloisant 6y agoNo, the majority of French households are using gaz. The reason France faces power cuts could be because they recently shut down a nuclear powerplant (which is a non-sense considering nuclear doesn't emit any CO2 and we'll have to buy coal electricity from Germany instead...)
- tannhaeuser 6y agoWhat? In Germany, they tell us we have to buy evil nuclear power from France ;) And the rise in EV sales is because they're being subsidized left and right, including installation of wall boxes with 900 EUR. It's antisocial, though, because you've got to own a house in the first place. And so is the ongoing exodus of producing small cars in most of EU's car industry because of draconian Euro 7 emission requirements impossible to meet at a reasonable price point; ie. the enormous cost of maintaining roads being financed via taxes are only benefitting those who'll be able to afford long-distance EVs and undesired (from CO2 PoV) e-commerce/road logistics.
- 6y ago
- 2ion 6y agoOnly because the state is throwing money at it like crazy. No taxes on EVs. Subsidies to the tune of 10000€. Per private purchase. There are certain types of lower end EV (like Renault Zoe) that can be purchased effectively for nearly free right now.
- polytely 6y ago>the state is throwing money at it like crazy. which state? this article is about europe as a whole? >No taxes on EVs. Subsidies to the tune of 10000€. Per private purchase. There are certain types of lower end EV (like Renault Zoe) that can be purchased effectively for nearly free right now. big if true, please point me towards this subsidy because I would like a free car
- zaarn 6y agoI think OP forgets that most car prices already have subsidies factored in.
- ihalip 6y agoIn Romania, we have a gov-funded program[1] that subsidizes up to ~9300€ off the price (but not more than 50% of its price) of a new electric/hybrid car, when you trade in an old car. Some conditions apply. [1] https://www.afm.ro/vehicule_electrice.php https://www.afm.ro/vehicule_electrice.php
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y agoTo give some idea - that's roughly twice the annual average household income in Romania.
- prostanac 6y ago> when you trade in an old car. nitpick. there are two programs. "rabla plus", the 9300 euro one, applies regardless. you can receive an additional 1300 euros through the "rabla" program if you trade in a car (which will be discarded to the junk yard). this second subsidy applies to any new car purchase.
- stinos 6y agoBit off-topic perhaps, but he SUV popularity remains baffling to me especially in this age. That's maybe because I'm looking from the wrong angle or I'm just wrong when it comes to physics. In general I see a pretty big car with a rather big front with flat parts and a high wheelbase. So in comparision with a more 'normal' one that means the user pays extra per mile because of the additional weight and wind resistance? So what makes that extra cost worth it, why does this type of car thrive so well? Is it just looks (I think they're ugly but that's irrelevant)? Is it the 'everyone has one' effect? Does it handle better perhaps? More on-topic: will the energy problem come into play when transitioning these cars into the EV-space? edit to clarify, seeing the comments regarding hard to reach areas etc, where an SUV does something useful: I'm talking standard Western European countries here with mild climate, hardly any snow, i.e. no use for 4WD or so.
- maxerickson 6y agoIn the US fuel prices are low enough to just not worry about the difference in fuel consumption. Especially for people shopping for the $40,000+ models. Several thousands gallons over the life of the vehicle or so.
- rob74 6y agoYeah, but this article is about Europe, and SUVs make up over 40% of new registrations. Mind you, the typical "European" SUVs, while bigger than other European cars, are midgets compared to what someone from the States would call an SUV.
- wsc981 6y agoI don't think many people in Europe really prefer SUVs, perhaps it's just the best type of electric car that is on offer or maybe the one with the biggest subsidies. Of course I speak from my point of view as someone who was raised in The Netherlands. In The Netherlands I never saw many SUVs on the road. Elon Musk is actually contemplating [0] to produce smaller EVs for the European market and I think those could become very popular indeed. Smaller cars are generally just nicer to use in compact crowded cities. --- [0] https://electrek.co/2020/11/24/elon-musk-tesla-hatchback-electric-model-designed-in-europe/ https://electrek.co/2020/11/24/elon-musk-tesla-hatchback-ele...
- paganel 6y agoThis list includes frankenstein hybrids like the Mercedes GLE 450 Hybrid [1], there's nothing environmentally friendly about that vehicle. [1] https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mercedes-benz/gle-class/2020/2020-mercedes-benz-gle450-interior-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mercedes-benz/gle-class/2020...
- paol 6y agoYes, this is important. As soon as you start counting hybrids the statistics become somewhat meaningless, not all hybrids are created equal. Some almost seem to just amount to greenwashing, but maybe I'm just cynical.
- cjrp 6y agoSome aren't even about greenwashing, they're actually about increasing performance; I'd say that's worse from an environmental point of view.
- quotemstr 6y agoWhy do you think that increasing performance in itself bad for the environment?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- cjrp 6y agoNot so much increasing performance, but what's required for that, e.g. the extra weight of the battery and motors to provide ~10km of electric-only range on the McLaren P1.
- crispyporkbites 6y agoFaster you go the more fuel you burn per mile above around 50-60mph depending on the car The faster you accelerate the more you’re going to braking to slow back down again (unless you’re accelerating onto open roads) Performance cars are more likely to be driven by people who don’t care about the environment and drive as such. Tires wear out faster ...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- barrenko 6y agoReally really doubt this is true.
- taksintikk 6y agoBravo.
- 02020202 6y agoi own a ton of copper stock so bring it on :D
- MrRiddle 6y agoThis includes mild hybrid. Example engine from popular Volvo XC60 is B4P 145+10 kW (197+14 KS). Soo, yeah, huge number of those vehicles included are actually diesel powered cars. The fact it adds a bit of torque from electric motor doesn’t change a thing.
- mothsonasloth 6y agoI don't care if the car is propelled by organic ethical cow methane. I will never buy a new car, even with subsidies. It's just a bad investment overall. To make matters worse, there is no incentive to buy a certified used EV (at least for Europe). For the cynical amongst us, this is the best time to buy a luxury used Diesel car e.g. (Audi A6, BMW 5 series etc.)
- snemvalts 6y agoDiesels sometimes command a 30-40% price difference to petrol engines in Germany thanks to the bans and the stigma - perfect if you're living in Eastern Europe and willing to import.
- weego 6y agoI honestly don't think I could sleep at night, having bought a new car, knowing how much its depreciating just sat there. An acquaintance bought his dream audi TT a few years ago, and after a couple of years of ownership we calculated that every time he drove it to the shop to get lunch it cost him $35 in depreciation on top of whatever he bought.
- matsemann 6y agoI bike everywhere, but have been considering buying a car for some trips where it's impractical: Visiting family far away, go to the mountains to ski etc. I could always rent, but I have ended up only doing it sporadically. Spending ~$50 on a city car to have it for a day out of the city has made the barrier so high. But having calculated cost of owning a car (parking, insurance, repairs, deprecation, gas etc) I have realized I could do that every weekend all year, and still probably come out ahead. Even if comparing to buying a used car. So here's to hoping I will be better at doing it this winter.
- rightbyte 6y agoI don't buy new cars either. The initial drop of in value is just insane. You can buy a really nice used car with electric windows(!) for the same price as new low end crap cars like Dacia. I never understood who buys those new if they already are looking for something cheap.
- Dumblydorr 6y agoHow are fully one quarter of new, NEW, sales diesel in EU? In the US, diesel is rather uncommon, whereas with BEV, it's mostly tesla and the leaf, I haven't seen many BEVs from other makers.
- d3ckard 6y agoDiesels are much more economical than petrol. Whether it is cost efficient depends on yearly mileage and how good a deal you get, but it’s a fact. My diesel E Class with 4 wheel drive burns considerably less fuel than my previous petrol Golf, while having better performance, more mass and greatly increased size. I would buy an electric, but they are just too damn expensive right now.
- ojagodzinski 6y agoFake news. Electrified are counted as pure electric, plug-in hybrids, full hybrids and mild hybrids. "Mild hybrids" is just a petrol car with bigger starter motor.
- logiccircuit 6y agoYeah but it makes german carmakers looks good - in fact we are back to square one: guzzlers and high polluting engines.
- lumberjack 6y agoI calculated fuel savings if I owned an EV. I did it for Germany. The fuel savings are basically negligible (it was about 200 Euros per year). This is due to high electricity prices. In the US at least you can say, I will pay $15k more upfront, but then I will get it back in fuel savings. But in Europe people drive far less and electricity is significantly more expensive. It's still not financially wise to own an EV.
- Rygian 6y agoYou could include caveats into that blanket generalization. Take France, which is just next door to Germany. Electricity cost is easily half of Germany's, and CO₂ emissions are about one fifth. I've gone from 50 €/month on diesel fuel to 10 €/month on very low CO₂ electricity.
- user5994461 6y agoSpending 50€ in France is about half a filling at current gasoline price. You were barely using your car at all.
- happosai 6y agoMost european countries don't have as insanely expensive electricity as Germany. I have 0.12€/kWh here in Finland.
- Daniel_sk 6y agoThat's what they got for stopping almost all nuclear power plants and replacing them with dirty coal and gas power plants (+ much more pollution). And now the power grid will be under even much more strain with EVs...
- Proven 6y agoFor the first time in <insert nany state or territory> history, <taxpayer funded solution> overtook <free market choice>. Conclusion: free market sucks
- mr_nobody 6y agoI bought a car this year. I was thinking about Tesla or Porsche Taycan, but unfortunately in Poland there is no infrastructure to charge them. I live in the flat so I had to go with gasoline car. Maybe in the next 5 years.
- logiccircuit 6y agoI dont know but perhaps selling the flat and buying a house with the money you would have spent on either of the two cars would have been wiser? Or showing status is more important around that part of europe?
- jeromegv 6y agoYou really think that the difference between EV and gazoline is big enough that you could upgrade from an apartment to a house? And let's not forget that a whole society living in single housing is a lot less eco-friendly than someone living in an apartment in a dense city and being able to do a lot of errands walking. Transportation emissions is not the only eco-impact, there's a lot that goes into housing and non efficient use of land.
- logiccircuit 6y agothe cars s/he mentioned are estimated at 100k euros, and in poland thats a lot. dont be fooled by european hybrids - they pollute more because the electric engine runs for short distances, and when it doesnt carrying it actually takes more fuel. i am all for evs and proper hybrids but this is not the case.
- bradlys 6y agoThe Porsche Taycan and all Teslas are full EVs - which is what that were considering purchasing.
- mr_nobody 6y agoThank you! I don't want to live in a single housing period. Atm EV isn't an option for people living in the flats without access to the public infrastructure. If I bought a house I would have to commute 5x longer distance every day.
- logiccircuit 6y agodont be fooled - these are mainly german hybrid cars which are in fact guzzlers. the new german carmaker scam is to slap a low quality electric engine on an otherwise highly polluting car, so buyers avoid paying taxes (there are many incentives for buying evs and hybrids, sadly exploited by such carmakers).
- cblconfederate 6y agoOnce could also say that "diesel went below EVs"
- olivermarks 6y agoLet's not forget vehicle manufacturers have been whipsawed over the last decade, first instructed and legislated over to focus on clean diesel over short timeframes, requiring massive investment. Then scientific opinions changed and the massive subsidies and legislative pressure switched to electric vehicles, with diesel being effectively outlawed in passenger vehicles 2016 example https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/2016/cleaner-safer-smarter-mobility https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/2016/cleaner-safer-smarter-m...
- dewey 6y agoNot surprised. At least here in Austria there were very good offers for electric cars this year where (especially small businesses) received big government bonuses for corona, electric cars in general and other tax cuts.
- Daniel_sk 6y agoIf that also includes MHEV then the statistics tell nothing. I bought a new Audi A6, it's a quite massive 3.0 diesel (210kW / 282 hp), I was actually surprised it's a hybrid when I went to register it and pay the "tax" - I got 50% off because it's a hybrid. I had to actually look it up on Google. It turns out most new Audi cars are MHEV, which is basically only used when the car is "coasting", the motor is decoupled from the rest and if you don't disable Start-Stop then it will also be turned off. Now in this special circumstance there is an additional battery + small electric motor that will only help to start the engine again. That's it. The motor doesn't really pull the vehicle. It does save some fuel especially on the highway, but not in the city. Audi mentions up to 0.7 liters / 100 kilometers for Audi Q8. I see it mainly as a benefit for the driver, in most EU countries you pay a lot money for bigger (more kW) cars.
- iso1631 6y agoI'm fine with litres and km, but struggle with fuel/distance (ratehr than distance/fuel) That saving is like going from 35mpg to 39mpg, or 50 to 58, or 27 to 29.
- Daniel_sk 6y agoFor me, mpg doesn't tell anything :-). You get used to it, I guess they are both the same thing in the end. In EU the distance in this case is always 100 km. So when someone says that the fuel consumption of his car is 6 liters, everyone knows it's 6 liters / 100 kilometers. So you can always just compare the amount of fuel (e.g. most cars consume about 6-7 liters).
- iso1631 6y agoIn the UK I know most cars do about 45mpg, or about 16km per litre - the higher the number the better. If I put 10l in, I'll be able to travel 160km. It's the swapping round that confuses me. I know it's "how much fuel will I need to go X distance", I just don't grok it intuitively that way round The "per 100km" seems arbitrary to me too, why not 60ml/km.
- acd 6y agoThis is very good news for air quality in cities. Dirty diesel has for a long while polluted city air, while car makers claimed they where "clean". The only clean part about diesels where lower co2 emissions, diesels pollute a lot of small particles which are bad for humans to breathe. Modern hybrid cars has as low fuel consumption as diesels but pollutes a lot less particles in cities.
- pedrocr 6y agoThat used to be the case, but with the latest Euro regulations diesel and gasoline are at the same requirements for emissions.