9 ms·

Governors take heat for violating their own coronavirus restrictions

80 points by mrfusion 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
guscost 6y ago
Corruption? In my republic? It’s more common than you think.
- contingencies 6y ago
  Same story over in Australia today https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/i-am-far-from-perfect-berejiklian-concedes-covid-19-test-mistake-20201125-p56hw4.html https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/i-am-far-from-perfect-be...
- Snoozle 6y ago
  I haven't heard a spin off of that meme for almost a decade.
bird_monster 6y ago
As they should.
antepodius 6y ago
The Brahmins eat steak bare-faced while you sip insect-protein soylent in your shipping container. You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy, you fucking pig.
- dang 6y ago
  Ouch. We ban accounts that post like this, for what will be obvious reasons if you read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Can you please do that and use HN as intended?
brighton36 6y ago
Coronavirus is mostly a performance. The governors perform it on camera. This is similar to the security theatre performances after 9/11.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  I think that is being overly harsh, there are more than a quarter million Americans that would certainly disagree with you were they still alive to do so.
  - brighton36 6y ago
    I have no doubt. That's why I said 'mostly'. It's a cold. A bad one, for some. Mostly, we perform the act of the pandemic. The acts offer confidence to the neurotic.
  - easytiger 6y ago
    And every other natural death in the last 1000 years? Are they too entitled to theoretical disgruntlement?
  - pengaru 6y ago
    > there are more than a quarter million Americans that would certainly disagree with you were they still alive to do so It's not like Americans are known for taking particularly good care of themselves. I'm not sure of any scenario once community spread was rampant across the nation where substantial numbers of Americans wouldn't have died. Let's not forget this nation has been supposedly battling an "obesity epidemic" for pretty much my entire adult life (I'm >40), and the fact that Dialysis centers have become a common sight throughout the nation. These problems existed prior to COVID-19, in many ways this is Americans sleeping in their own bed decades in the making.
  - wutbrodo 6y ago
    Do you have a source for this? I'm not aware of any estimates that attribute almost 100% of US deaths to our poor public health response. That would imply that there was a realistic scenario in which we'd have roughly zero deaths. Though there are countries that managed this, I've yet to see any evidence that this is _entirely_ attributable to public health levers (and there are a few characteristics in common among many of them: many are small islands, many had been hit badly by pandemics in the past, almost all are East Asian, and IIRC none of them are large federal systems, a massive exogenous variable when it comes to governance). Or perhaps you're you're interpreting the parent comment overliterally? I understood it to mean that Coronavirus restrictions are safety theater, not that the virus itself is a fantasy.
tunesmith 6y ago
It's interesting how charges of hypocrisy often have two completely opposite motivations. Both sides point out the inconsistency between the stated value and the action, or, the "preaching" and the "practice". But the difference is in which side is favored. In the more common usage, the charge of hypocrisy comes from someone who is in favor of the stated value, the "preaching", and is opposed to the inconsistent act or "practice". In this case, the belief that the Governors should follow their own coronavirus restrictions. But you also see a lot of the opposite. People who rail against hypocrisy because they are against the stated value, and are more than fine with the "practice". In this case, people who are opposed to the coronavirus restrictions, but then are all too happy to scream hypocrisy anyway. The latter case really aggravates me. It almost makes me feel their charges of hypocrisy are hypocritical somehow. At least, I wish the difference would be pointed out more often. It really is a different phenomenon. I think the former case has more moral authority, and the latter case is bad faith. EDIT: Thanks for followup comments. After thinking about it more, I can think of plenty of other examples where I'm against the stated value and get aggravated at hypocrisy, so I guess I don't believe it is bad faith after all. The difference between the two motivations still interests me though and I wish more people would be clear on which side they fall on (when they charge hypocrisy).
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  If you're against the stated value, then having the value imposed by decree irks you. It's infuriating to see the one who imposed it on you acting in the way that you want to but now can't.
- ummonk 6y ago
  I'm someone who supports many (but not all) of the coronavirus restrictions, but I think the latter case is perfectly reasonable. The point people make is "these politicians are imposing stupid restrictions on us that they know are stupid as evidenced by the fact they won't abide the restrictions".
- lordnacho 6y ago
  Surely the second case is where you point out the hypocrisy because it means the hypocrite also does not believe their actions are needed, thus supporting the observer's belief? You could look at the UK where several government officials have broken the quarantine rules. You can see that as meaning they don't really think the rules are needed, but politics demands they act like something has been done. Someone who thinks the lockdown rules are unnecessary would point this out.
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
They take heat... but not enough, yet. Maybe if they actually had to live by the rules they make, they'd be a little less drastic in the rules they make...
- jaywalk 6y ago
  Expecting politicians to live by the rules they impose on us commoners? Preposterous!
teekert 6y ago
Nice, our Minister of Justice and Security (the Netherlands) did the same thing, right after he had a big mouth calling people breaking the rules "Anti-Socials". But hey, at least we got some nice funny movies like this one out of the whole ordeal: [0] [0] https://www.bitchute.com/video/FMHV2EgH7ZXF/ https://www.bitchute.com/video/FMHV2EgH7ZXF/
rconti 6y ago
Newsom deserves the heat he got for the dinner; Even if it's a close enough group that you or I would feel comfortable, the Governor of course has to model not just "good enough" behavior, but the best behavior. The schools thing is a just a stupid political twitter troll from that SD Mayor. Lots of schools in CA are (or were) doing hybrid in-person models. CA is #2 in covid-19 cases statewide, but #41 in cases per 100k population. I credit, in part, the leadership of many state officials who are at least saying the right things, and modeling the best behavior helps.
- Shivetya 6y ago
  The politicians doing what they please and trying to justify it as some have done is just par for the course. Few are giving real thought to how it really impacts the average person because they have long lived above them economically to the point all they can do is pay lip service. Fear is an incredible political weapon and its being used adeptly. The real issue is with schools is we have a perfect scenario for real education reform but we are doing everything but that. Instead we are leaving an incredible number of students behind because everyone is thinking of their political power under the guise of their health and that of the children. Parents are frustrated because many of them have to work because either their job is deemed essential or apparently not as much of a risk; as if the cashier at a grocery store is not more at risk than a teacher. If anything the pandemic is further reducing the trust people have in their elected officials and one can hope it pans out in upcoming elections both local and national. This won't be gone even through the majority of next year.
  - throwawaysea 6y ago
    > If anything the pandemic is further reducing the trust people have in their elected officials and one can hope it pans out in upcoming elections both local and national. It has certainly caused a loss of trust for me but I don't think it will pan out as change in upcoming elections because COVID has become a political issue, with political outcomes at stake. The leveraging of a crisis for political gain is a classic pattern, but we don't seem to be acknowledging it is happening right now. Some examples: COVID is being used as a vague justification for universal healthcare, for permanent closure of streets to vehicular traffic, for increased low-income housing, for increased taxes to fund safety nets (like homeless shelters), for normalizing deeper state involvement in business practices (like evictions), and so on. Obviously, COVID was also a big factor in the presidential election, since it hurt an otherwise strong economy, enabled the George Floyd incident to turn into months-long protests and riots (employed/busy citizens would not have the time or energy to do things like block highways daily), etc. The political underpinnings of lockdown policies are clear when you see how heavy the pushback is against any transition to remote learning or decentralized learning or school choice. We're being told at once that even saving a single life is worth shutting down the entire country, but also being told that in-person public school education is an essential service (this is the position of the Biden COVID task force). Anything that might enable alternative education models is off the table since it goes against the politics of teacher unions and the Democratic platform, particularly with education increasingly becoming a vehicle for early political indoctrination (for example introducing gender politics or the factually-incorrect 1619 project into schools). How can all this be taken except as partisan exploitation of a crisis? But in the US, with people as divided as they are, I expect everyone to just stick to their tribe. So it goes...
randlet 6y ago
The "rules for thee but not for me" on display by elected officials is maddening. It's certainly not unique to the US. Here in Canada the mayor of Windsor recently had "an unfortunate accident" (ate at a restaurant with a group of people hours after calling for zero tolerance) [1]. Earlier in the pandemic the premier of Ontario Doug Ford drove to his cottage after asking everyone else to stay away from theirs. There's never any consequences and leaves people (me at least) increasingly frustrated, angry, and feeling a complete lack of faith in our politicians. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-mayor-dining-covid-1.5812980 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-mayor-dining-... [2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ford-cottage-covid-19-coronavirus-1.5561167 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ford-cottage-covid-19...
- easytiger 6y ago
  It's entirely predictably that some politicians would behave in this fashion. What shocks me is that that is your reaction; not that this indicates the rules are themselves ludicrous.
  - randlet 6y ago
    You're shocked I expect politicians to enact policies in good faith and then abide by them themselves? edit: I'm no longer surprised they act this way, but it still angers me greatly.
    - easytiger 6y ago
      I'm shocked that people don't apply the basic principles of human nature. The rules are ridiculous. Some people will see that. Politicians are implementing policy because that's what they need to be seen to be doing, not because they honestly believe it should apply universally. Ergo some politicians will be found in a state of hypocrisy. The man responsible for much of the policy in the west, a UK advisor l, was caught breaching the rules to have sex with a married woman.
      - 6y ago
rsynnott 6y ago
In Ireland we're busy trying to figure out how to get rid of a Supreme Court judge, after one broke the lockdown rules and then refused to resign: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/government-seeks-legal-advice-over-stand-off-between-judges-1.4404872 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/government-see... From the _same incident_, we also lost a minister, a senator, and the EU trade commissioner. Those all helpfully resigned without too much shoving.
- scruple 6y ago
  Wow. Hadn't heard anything about that. Thanks for sharing.
mcguire 6y ago
Ok, so I don't really care about the politicians (politicians gonna politician; what can you do?), but any word about the "with a group of prominent lobbyists, including several who represent the California Medical Association"? I assume the AMA is going to deny all involvement, because they probably weren't involved, but I'm sure hearing the lobbyists justifications would be entertaining.
- korethr 6y ago
  The hypocrisy displayed in this incident is especially teeth grinding. It's maddening enough to see a leader flouting their own rules. But then to add people representing a medical organization just makes it that much worse. As you say, politicians gonna politician. But I would expect that if anyone would actually know better, it would be members of a medical organization.
  - trhway 6y ago
    What if they know better. After all who else if not them. Just couple days ago an epidemiologist on NPR was talking that those summer beach restrictions didn't make sense as being outside is least risky situation. I suppose many other restrictions are the same "Do Something". Like the current curfew in CA.
    - ethbr0 6y ago
      There's a reason "doctors make the worst patients" is a joke. Because it's entirely possible to be brilliant in one thing and ignorant in another, and seductively easy to forget that knowledge doesn't always transfer.
      - burnthrow 6y ago
        But in this analogy, we are "patients" only by legal force.
        ethbr0 6y ago
taxicabjesus 6y ago
I've been watching some mainstream media with my father in recent weeks. It's amazing to me how concerned they tell their audience to be, and how excited they are that our deliverance is at hand thanks to the imminent availability of a 90% effective vaccine. Never mind that the vaccine has not been shown to do anything to help people who are deficient in vitamin D or zinc or any other kind of malnourishment, nor to help deal with the darkness that happens the same time every year. Some people think the Asian countries did well because they're mask ninjas. Another theory is that the countries that have done well just have more exposure/cross-immunity [0] to coronaviruses (from bats/etc), or there may be some protection from TB/pneumonia vaccines that are commonly used in Japan/South Korea/etc. I'm more likely to believe those who say the response to COVID-19 is much more of a problem than the virus itself: https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013/status/1331506523915382786 https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013/status/133150652391538278... Governors are more likely to be skeptical than their plebs, but they have to balance managing their party's partisan hysterics with their actual risk factors (less likely to be malnourished, etc). > Fewer Republican governors have been caught violating their own orders — in large part because they have not implemented the same kinds of restrictions that public health experts say are critical to curbing the spread of a deadly virus. Floridians and North Dakotans and Swedes are fortunate to have more enlightened leadership that question the supposed "public health experts". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-reactivity#In_immunology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-reactivity#In_immunology
- gruez 6y ago
  >Never mind that the vaccine has not been shown to do anything to help people who are deficient in vitamin D or zinc or any other kind of malnourishment, Source? >nor to help deal with the darkness that happens the same time every year. I'm not sure whether this is a joke or not. A vaccine can't help with the orbit of the earth around the sun ...well no shit? >Another theory is that the countries that have done well just have more exposure/cross-immunity [0] to coronaviruses (from bats/etc) Do you think east asia is some homogeneous group that all eat bat soup or something? >there may be some protection from TB/pneumonia vaccines that are commonly used in Japan/South Korea/etc. I'm not sure what you mean by "TB/pneumonia vaccines". Searching up "tuberculosis vaccine" on wikipedia leads to me to this[1], which says it's administered in russia. Given the size of the outbreak there, it doesn't seem like it's working very well. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine
throwawaysea 6y ago
Clearly, even politicians who are trying to signal an "every life matters" stance actually harbor a different set of values that deviate from their public performances. I don't fault them for having those values, but I do fault them for enacting coercive/authoritarian policies while actually believing in something different. Instead, I would rather they acknowledge that they should stop at educating the public, encouraging best practices, and making resources (testing, PPE, etc) broadly available. I would rather individuals and businesses decide for themselves how they will act. Those who are very risk averse can self-isolate for as long as they want (indefinitely if they want zero risk exposure in life), or can wear full-body coverings when they venture out, and so on. Those who are comfortable with [working, dining out, going for a hike, whatever] can do so at their own risk. I feel especially bad for the children and young adults affected by lockdown policies, as they will be set back socially, emotionally, and professionally despite the risk to them being almost zero. With the median age of a COVID death in the mid-high 70s, we're stealing from the young to accommodate the very old. Ultimately, the coronavirus is a background condition like a weather event, and individuals should be allowed to make decisions about the risks they are willing to accept as part of living their life. Forcing particular tradeoffs between risk and reward on society is the same as forcing everyone to have the same value system. I don't think that makes sense in a free society.
RickJWagner 6y ago
So very tired of the endless politicization and criticism of Covid handling efforts. The US will soon have a new administration. I'm trying to select relevant metrics for: - Covid handling - Black shootings from LEO - Employment statistics - Real wage growth - Insurance coverage - etc. It will be very interesting to see how things really go.
saagarjha 6y ago
This is infuriating. Not just for the hypocrisy, which is par for the course already, but it gives credence to the argument of “these restrictions are stupid” because you can point at these people who have trouble following the rules. This lets people (some who are in this very thread) take necessary and reasonable policy and claim it is “impossible to follow” when it’s just “this elected person is a complete idiot who decided to go to a dinner party during a pandemic”.
- jtsiskin 6y ago
  Yes, it’s extremely infuriating, this has soured my day. The millionaire lobbyist birthday party, the $350 and up plating, the enclosed space, no masks, the other lobbyist guests. It makes it pretty hard to believe they are thinking about their constituents or even have the ability to empathize with them at all. Are we supposed to believe these friendships have 0 effect on enacted policy? Is it the wealth and power these people have had throughout their life that makes them do things like this? Is it the fact they know they could get the best doctors and treatment if they did happen to catch the disease, whereas the waitstaff serving them doesn’t even have insurance? It plays so infuriatingly perfect into the “the virus severity is a hoax made to profit big pharma and give more power to the government” conspiracy. I’m beginning to see how people could become convinced of things like this and then jump to even more extremist conspiracies

80 points by mrfusion 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

guscost 6y ago

Corruption? In my republic? It’s more common than you think.

contingencies 6y ago
Same story over in Australia today https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/i-am-far-from-perfect-berejiklian-concedes-covid-19-test-mistake-20201125-p56hw4.html https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/i-am-far-from-perfect-be...
Snoozle 6y ago
I haven't heard a spin off of that meme for almost a decade.

bird_monster 6y ago

As they should.

antepodius 6y ago

The Brahmins eat steak bare-faced while you sip insect-protein soylent in your shipping container. You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy, you fucking pig.

dang 6y ago
Ouch. We ban accounts that post like this, for what will be obvious reasons if you read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Can you please do that and use HN as intended?

brighton36 6y ago

Coronavirus is mostly a performance. The governors perform it on camera. This is similar to the security theatre performances after 9/11.

rootusrootus 6y ago
I think that is being overly harsh, there are more than a quarter million Americans that would certainly disagree with you were they still alive to do so.
- brighton36 6y ago
  I have no doubt. That's why I said 'mostly'. It's a cold. A bad one, for some. Mostly, we perform the act of the pandemic. The acts offer confidence to the neurotic.
- easytiger 6y ago
  And every other natural death in the last 1000 years? Are they too entitled to theoretical disgruntlement?
- pengaru 6y ago
  > there are more than a quarter million Americans that would certainly disagree with you were they still alive to do so It's not like Americans are known for taking particularly good care of themselves. I'm not sure of any scenario once community spread was rampant across the nation where substantial numbers of Americans wouldn't have died. Let's not forget this nation has been supposedly battling an "obesity epidemic" for pretty much my entire adult life (I'm >40), and the fact that Dialysis centers have become a common sight throughout the nation. These problems existed prior to COVID-19, in many ways this is Americans sleeping in their own bed decades in the making.
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  Do you have a source for this? I'm not aware of any estimates that attribute almost 100% of US deaths to our poor public health response. That would imply that there was a realistic scenario in which we'd have roughly zero deaths. Though there are countries that managed this, I've yet to see any evidence that this is _entirely_ attributable to public health levers (and there are a few characteristics in common among many of them: many are small islands, many had been hit badly by pandemics in the past, almost all are East Asian, and IIRC none of them are large federal systems, a massive exogenous variable when it comes to governance). Or perhaps you're you're interpreting the parent comment overliterally? I understood it to mean that Coronavirus restrictions are safety theater, not that the virus itself is a fantasy.

tunesmith 6y ago

It's interesting how charges of hypocrisy often have two completely opposite motivations. Both sides point out the inconsistency between the stated value and the action, or, the "preaching" and the "practice". But the difference is in which side is favored. In the more common usage, the charge of hypocrisy comes from someone who is in favor of the stated value, the "preaching", and is opposed to the inconsistent act or "practice". In this case, the belief that the Governors should follow their own coronavirus restrictions. But you also see a lot of the opposite. People who rail against hypocrisy because they are against the stated value, and are more than fine with the "practice". In this case, people who are opposed to the coronavirus restrictions, but then are all too happy to scream hypocrisy anyway. The latter case really aggravates me. It almost makes me feel their charges of hypocrisy are hypocritical somehow. At least, I wish the difference would be pointed out more often. It really is a different phenomenon. I think the former case has more moral authority, and the latter case is bad faith. EDIT: Thanks for followup comments. After thinking about it more, I can think of plenty of other examples where I'm against the stated value and get aggravated at hypocrisy, so I guess I don't believe it is bad faith after all. The difference between the two motivations still interests me though and I wish more people would be clear on which side they fall on (when they charge hypocrisy).

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
If you're against the stated value, then having the value imposed by decree irks you. It's infuriating to see the one who imposed it on you acting in the way that you want to but now can't.
ummonk 6y ago
I'm someone who supports many (but not all) of the coronavirus restrictions, but I think the latter case is perfectly reasonable. The point people make is "these politicians are imposing stupid restrictions on us that they know are stupid as evidenced by the fact they won't abide the restrictions".
lordnacho 6y ago
Surely the second case is where you point out the hypocrisy because it means the hypocrite also does not believe their actions are needed, thus supporting the observer's belief? You could look at the UK where several government officials have broken the quarantine rules. You can see that as meaning they don't really think the rules are needed, but politics demands they act like something has been done. Someone who thinks the lockdown rules are unnecessary would point this out.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

They take heat... but not enough, yet. Maybe if they actually had to live by the rules they make, they'd be a little less drastic in the rules they make...

jaywalk 6y ago
Expecting politicians to live by the rules they impose on us commoners? Preposterous!

teekert 6y ago

Nice, our Minister of Justice and Security (the Netherlands) did the same thing, right after he had a big mouth calling people breaking the rules "Anti-Socials". But hey, at least we got some nice funny movies like this one out of the whole ordeal: [0] [0] https://www.bitchute.com/video/FMHV2EgH7ZXF/ https://www.bitchute.com/video/FMHV2EgH7ZXF/

rconti 6y ago

Newsom deserves the heat he got for the dinner; Even if it's a close enough group that you or I would feel comfortable, the Governor of course has to model not just "good enough" behavior, but the best behavior. The schools thing is a just a stupid political twitter troll from that SD Mayor. Lots of schools in CA are (or were) doing hybrid in-person models. CA is #2 in covid-19 cases statewide, but #41 in cases per 100k population. I credit, in part, the leadership of many state officials who are at least saying the right things, and modeling the best behavior helps.

Shivetya 6y ago
The politicians doing what they please and trying to justify it as some have done is just par for the course. Few are giving real thought to how it really impacts the average person because they have long lived above them economically to the point all they can do is pay lip service. Fear is an incredible political weapon and its being used adeptly. The real issue is with schools is we have a perfect scenario for real education reform but we are doing everything but that. Instead we are leaving an incredible number of students behind because everyone is thinking of their political power under the guise of their health and that of the children. Parents are frustrated because many of them have to work because either their job is deemed essential or apparently not as much of a risk; as if the cashier at a grocery store is not more at risk than a teacher. If anything the pandemic is further reducing the trust people have in their elected officials and one can hope it pans out in upcoming elections both local and national. This won't be gone even through the majority of next year.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  > If anything the pandemic is further reducing the trust people have in their elected officials and one can hope it pans out in upcoming elections both local and national. It has certainly caused a loss of trust for me but I don't think it will pan out as change in upcoming elections because COVID has become a political issue, with political outcomes at stake. The leveraging of a crisis for political gain is a classic pattern, but we don't seem to be acknowledging it is happening right now. Some examples: COVID is being used as a vague justification for universal healthcare, for permanent closure of streets to vehicular traffic, for increased low-income housing, for increased taxes to fund safety nets (like homeless shelters), for normalizing deeper state involvement in business practices (like evictions), and so on. Obviously, COVID was also a big factor in the presidential election, since it hurt an otherwise strong economy, enabled the George Floyd incident to turn into months-long protests and riots (employed/busy citizens would not have the time or energy to do things like block highways daily), etc. The political underpinnings of lockdown policies are clear when you see how heavy the pushback is against any transition to remote learning or decentralized learning or school choice. We're being told at once that even saving a single life is worth shutting down the entire country, but also being told that in-person public school education is an essential service (this is the position of the Biden COVID task force). Anything that might enable alternative education models is off the table since it goes against the politics of teacher unions and the Democratic platform, particularly with education increasingly becoming a vehicle for early political indoctrination (for example introducing gender politics or the factually-incorrect 1619 project into schools). How can all this be taken except as partisan exploitation of a crisis? But in the US, with people as divided as they are, I expect everyone to just stick to their tribe. So it goes...

randlet 6y ago

The "rules for thee but not for me" on display by elected officials is maddening. It's certainly not unique to the US. Here in Canada the mayor of Windsor recently had "an unfortunate accident" (ate at a restaurant with a group of people hours after calling for zero tolerance) [1]. Earlier in the pandemic the premier of Ontario Doug Ford drove to his cottage after asking everyone else to stay away from theirs. There's never any consequences and leaves people (me at least) increasingly frustrated, angry, and feeling a complete lack of faith in our politicians. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-mayor-dining-covid-1.5812980 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-mayor-dining-... [2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ford-cottage-covid-19-coronavirus-1.5561167 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ford-cottage-covid-19...

easytiger 6y ago
It's entirely predictably that some politicians would behave in this fashion. What shocks me is that that is your reaction; not that this indicates the rules are themselves ludicrous.
- randlet 6y ago
  You're shocked I expect politicians to enact policies in good faith and then abide by them themselves? edit: I'm no longer surprised they act this way, but it still angers me greatly.
  - easytiger 6y ago
    I'm shocked that people don't apply the basic principles of human nature. The rules are ridiculous. Some people will see that. Politicians are implementing policy because that's what they need to be seen to be doing, not because they honestly believe it should apply universally. Ergo some politicians will be found in a state of hypocrisy. The man responsible for much of the policy in the west, a UK advisor l, was caught breaching the rules to have sex with a married woman.
    - 6y ago

rsynnott 6y ago

In Ireland we're busy trying to figure out how to get rid of a Supreme Court judge, after one broke the lockdown rules and then refused to resign: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/government-seeks-legal-advice-over-stand-off-between-judges-1.4404872 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/government-see... From the _same incident_, we also lost a minister, a senator, and the EU trade commissioner. Those all helpfully resigned without too much shoving.

scruple 6y ago
Wow. Hadn't heard anything about that. Thanks for sharing.

mcguire 6y ago

Ok, so I don't really care about the politicians (politicians gonna politician; what can you do?), but any word about the "with a group of prominent lobbyists, including several who represent the California Medical Association"? I assume the AMA is going to deny all involvement, because they probably weren't involved, but I'm sure hearing the lobbyists justifications would be entertaining.

korethr 6y ago
The hypocrisy displayed in this incident is especially teeth grinding. It's maddening enough to see a leader flouting their own rules. But then to add people representing a medical organization just makes it that much worse. As you say, politicians gonna politician. But I would expect that if anyone would actually know better, it would be members of a medical organization.
- trhway 6y ago
  What if they know better. After all who else if not them. Just couple days ago an epidemiologist on NPR was talking that those summer beach restrictions didn't make sense as being outside is least risky situation. I suppose many other restrictions are the same "Do Something". Like the current curfew in CA.
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    There's a reason "doctors make the worst patients" is a joke. Because it's entirely possible to be brilliant in one thing and ignorant in another, and seductively easy to forget that knowledge doesn't always transfer.
    - burnthrow 6y ago
      But in this analogy, we are "patients" only by legal force.
      - ethbr0 6y ago

taxicabjesus 6y ago

I've been watching some mainstream media with my father in recent weeks. It's amazing to me how concerned they tell their audience to be, and how excited they are that our deliverance is at hand thanks to the imminent availability of a 90% effective vaccine. Never mind that the vaccine has not been shown to do anything to help people who are deficient in vitamin D or zinc or any other kind of malnourishment, nor to help deal with the darkness that happens the same time every year. Some people think the Asian countries did well because they're mask ninjas. Another theory is that the countries that have done well just have more exposure/cross-immunity [0] to coronaviruses (from bats/etc), or there may be some protection from TB/pneumonia vaccines that are commonly used in Japan/South Korea/etc. I'm more likely to believe those who say the response to COVID-19 is much more of a problem than the virus itself: https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013/status/1331506523915382786 https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013/status/133150652391538278... Governors are more likely to be skeptical than their plebs, but they have to balance managing their party's partisan hysterics with their actual risk factors (less likely to be malnourished, etc). > Fewer Republican governors have been caught violating their own orders — in large part because they have not implemented the same kinds of restrictions that public health experts say are critical to curbing the spread of a deadly virus. Floridians and North Dakotans and Swedes are fortunate to have more enlightened leadership that question the supposed "public health experts". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-reactivity#In_immunology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-reactivity#In_immunology

gruez 6y ago
>Never mind that the vaccine has not been shown to do anything to help people who are deficient in vitamin D or zinc or any other kind of malnourishment, Source? >nor to help deal with the darkness that happens the same time every year. I'm not sure whether this is a joke or not. A vaccine can't help with the orbit of the earth around the sun ...well no shit? >Another theory is that the countries that have done well just have more exposure/cross-immunity [0] to coronaviruses (from bats/etc) Do you think east asia is some homogeneous group that all eat bat soup or something? >there may be some protection from TB/pneumonia vaccines that are commonly used in Japan/South Korea/etc. I'm not sure what you mean by "TB/pneumonia vaccines". Searching up "tuberculosis vaccine" on wikipedia leads to me to this[1], which says it's administered in russia. Given the size of the outbreak there, it doesn't seem like it's working very well. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine

throwawaysea 6y ago

Clearly, even politicians who are trying to signal an "every life matters" stance actually harbor a different set of values that deviate from their public performances. I don't fault them for having those values, but I do fault them for enacting coercive/authoritarian policies while actually believing in something different. Instead, I would rather they acknowledge that they should stop at educating the public, encouraging best practices, and making resources (testing, PPE, etc) broadly available. I would rather individuals and businesses decide for themselves how they will act. Those who are very risk averse can self-isolate for as long as they want (indefinitely if they want zero risk exposure in life), or can wear full-body coverings when they venture out, and so on. Those who are comfortable with [working, dining out, going for a hike, whatever] can do so at their own risk. I feel especially bad for the children and young adults affected by lockdown policies, as they will be set back socially, emotionally, and professionally despite the risk to them being almost zero. With the median age of a COVID death in the mid-high 70s, we're stealing from the young to accommodate the very old. Ultimately, the coronavirus is a background condition like a weather event, and individuals should be allowed to make decisions about the risks they are willing to accept as part of living their life. Forcing particular tradeoffs between risk and reward on society is the same as forcing everyone to have the same value system. I don't think that makes sense in a free society.

RickJWagner 6y ago

So very tired of the endless politicization and criticism of Covid handling efforts. The US will soon have a new administration. I'm trying to select relevant metrics for: - Covid handling - Black shootings from LEO - Employment statistics - Real wage growth - Insurance coverage - etc. It will be very interesting to see how things really go.

saagarjha 6y ago

This is infuriating. Not just for the hypocrisy, which is par for the course already, but it gives credence to the argument of “these restrictions are stupid” because you can point at these people who have trouble following the rules. This lets people (some who are in this very thread) take necessary and reasonable policy and claim it is “impossible to follow” when it’s just “this elected person is a complete idiot who decided to go to a dinner party during a pandemic”.

jtsiskin 6y ago
Yes, it’s extremely infuriating, this has soured my day. The millionaire lobbyist birthday party, the $350 and up plating, the enclosed space, no masks, the other lobbyist guests. It makes it pretty hard to believe they are thinking about their constituents or even have the ability to empathize with them at all. Are we supposed to believe these friendships have 0 effect on enacted policy? Is it the wealth and power these people have had throughout their life that makes them do things like this? Is it the fact they know they could get the best doctors and treatment if they did happen to catch the disease, whereas the waitstaff serving them doesn’t even have insurance? It plays so infuriatingly perfect into the “the virus severity is a hoax made to profit big pharma and give more power to the government” conspiracy. I’m beginning to see how people could become convinced of things like this and then jump to even more extremist conspiracies