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Why are degree requirements so high for nurses? What's with this artificially imposed supply shortage?

watwut 6y ago
What do you think nurses do?
vinceguidry 6y ago
Because in most cases it's not going to be a doctor saving your life, it's going to be a nurse. They need to have the knowledge and skills to do so.
Enginerrrd 6y ago
They aren't! Nursing is one of very few licensed professions you can do with an associates degree. And that 2 years is PACKED with a ton of need-to-know skills. The field requires rather incredible breadth just for an entry level position. It's a very demanding program. These are people dealing with the possibility of life and death mistakes constantly without immediate supervision so a licensure is totally appropriate. I'm frankly bewildered at your question. It suggests extreme unfamiliarity with the required nursing skill-set. I was a paramedic, which took me 3 full-time semesters and also required a licensure to practice. And while we had to do a few things outside of the nursing scope, we probably only really covered maybe 1/3 of the skills and knowledge that nurses need to cover in 4 semesters.
- nine_zeros 6y ago
  There is a skillset required for nursing. But those skills can be taught. They are taught. What's stopping us from teaching them en-masse?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    The skills required to be a nuclear physicist can be taught, but that doesn't mean that they can be taught to anyone, regardless of aptitude. And nursing, in practice, requires more than just a specific set of trainable intellectual skills, it also requires physical and social skills and aptitudes,for which proficiency is less correlated with those for intellectual skills than it is across intellectual skills. And nursing (viewed broadly) skills are taught in mass, the nursing series of professions employs a huge number of people. RNs alone account for more than 1% of the entire US population, adding CNAs and LPN/LVNs, that goes up to a little under 2%.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Nursing is one of very few licensed professions you can do with an associates degree. There are lots of licensed professions you can do with a associates degree or less. (In California, the list includes Barber, Commercial Fisherman, Cosmetologist, Dental Hygienist, Drinking Water Plant Operator, Electrician, EMT, Funeral Service Director, General Contractor, ...and that's just through the “Gs” of positions covered by the National Occupational Licensing Database. [0] [0] https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/occupational-licensing-statute-database.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/occupatio... Nursing is actually a set of separately licensed professions, the lowest couple levels (CNA, LPN/LVN) typically require a non-degree certification, though the latter may also be offered in associates degree form in some institutions. RN requires either an associate's or bachelor's (ADN or BSN), and the levels beyond RN require additional education; NP requires at least a BSN, Nurse midwives and nurse anesthetists require at least a Masters.
cbozeman 6y ago
Did you just completely skip every biology course throughout high school and college? The human body is fucking complex. Staggeringly, mind-bogglingly so. And that's just our bodies. Add in just one component of nursing, like medication. We don't even know how most of the drugs we take work - called 'mechanism of action'. We don't know. We just know the shit does work. Now think about everything that can go wrong with a human body. Nurses are the front line workers that have to deal with that. Try to think a little before you type next time.
- AuryGlenz 6y ago
  I know a couple of RNs well and went to a school where approximately half of the students were going for nursing. What you’re describing is what doctors deal with, not nurses. My grandpa was just in the hospital and ornery due to not having any nicotine in him, but the nurses sure as hell couldn’t give him a patch without a doctor’s order, nor should they be able to. Nurses know some anatomy, major no-nos, and how to do things like place a catheter, an IV, etc. Don’t get me wrong, they’re absolutely essential, but I’ve regularly been amazed at the lack of medical knowledge at least some RNs have. My sister is one, and she’s coming home to visit my parents for Thanksgiving. My dad has lupus and finished cancer treatment this year. She thinks it’s ok as long as none of the patients she sees today have symptoms of COVID. The term incubation period means nothing to her, and that’s just one example.

What do you think nurses do?

Because in most cases it's not going to be a doctor saving your life, it's going to be a nurse. They need to have the knowledge and skills to do so.

Enginerrrd 6y ago

They aren't! Nursing is one of very few licensed professions you can do with an associates degree. And that 2 years is PACKED with a ton of need-to-know skills. The field requires rather incredible breadth just for an entry level position. It's a very demanding program. These are people dealing with the possibility of life and death mistakes constantly without immediate supervision so a licensure is totally appropriate. I'm frankly bewildered at your question. It suggests extreme unfamiliarity with the required nursing skill-set. I was a paramedic, which took me 3 full-time semesters and also required a licensure to practice. And while we had to do a few things outside of the nursing scope, we probably only really covered maybe 1/3 of the skills and knowledge that nurses need to cover in 4 semesters.

nine_zeros 6y ago
There is a skillset required for nursing. But those skills can be taught. They are taught. What's stopping us from teaching them en-masse?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  The skills required to be a nuclear physicist can be taught, but that doesn't mean that they can be taught to anyone, regardless of aptitude. And nursing, in practice, requires more than just a specific set of trainable intellectual skills, it also requires physical and social skills and aptitudes,for which proficiency is less correlated with those for intellectual skills than it is across intellectual skills. And nursing (viewed broadly) skills are taught in mass, the nursing series of professions employs a huge number of people. RNs alone account for more than 1% of the entire US population, adding CNAs and LPN/LVNs, that goes up to a little under 2%.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Nursing is one of very few licensed professions you can do with an associates degree. There are lots of licensed professions you can do with a associates degree or less. (In California, the list includes Barber, Commercial Fisherman, Cosmetologist, Dental Hygienist, Drinking Water Plant Operator, Electrician, EMT, Funeral Service Director, General Contractor, ...and that's just through the “Gs” of positions covered by the National Occupational Licensing Database. [0] [0] https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/occupational-licensing-statute-database.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/occupatio... Nursing is actually a set of separately licensed professions, the lowest couple levels (CNA, LPN/LVN) typically require a non-degree certification, though the latter may also be offered in associates degree form in some institutions. RN requires either an associate's or bachelor's (ADN or BSN), and the levels beyond RN require additional education; NP requires at least a BSN, Nurse midwives and nurse anesthetists require at least a Masters.

cbozeman 6y ago

Did you just completely skip every biology course throughout high school and college? The human body is fucking complex. Staggeringly, mind-bogglingly so. And that's just our bodies. Add in just one component of nursing, like medication. We don't even know how most of the drugs we take work - called 'mechanism of action'. We don't know. We just know the shit does work. Now think about everything that can go wrong with a human body. Nurses are the front line workers that have to deal with that. Try to think a little before you type next time.

AuryGlenz 6y ago
I know a couple of RNs well and went to a school where approximately half of the students were going for nursing. What you’re describing is what doctors deal with, not nurses. My grandpa was just in the hospital and ornery due to not having any nicotine in him, but the nurses sure as hell couldn’t give him a patch without a doctor’s order, nor should they be able to. Nurses know some anatomy, major no-nos, and how to do things like place a catheter, an IV, etc. Don’t get me wrong, they’re absolutely essential, but I’ve regularly been amazed at the lack of medical knowledge at least some RNs have. My sister is one, and she’s coming home to visit my parents for Thanksgiving. My dad has lupus and finished cancer treatment this year. She thinks it’s ok as long as none of the patients she sees today have symptoms of COVID. The term incubation period means nothing to her, and that’s just one example.