6 ms·

Yup, like many in the civil rights movement, King leaned heavily towards socialism and economic justice (see the Poor People's Campaign) in addition to, and as

by 1986 6y ago

Yup, like many in the civil rights movement, King leaned heavily towards socialism and economic justice (see the Poor People's Campaign) in addition to, and as an integral part of, racial justice. But the Cold War and the boogeyman of Communism meant that that was weaponized against them while the struggle was ongoing, and whitewashed from their history as they became mythologized afterwards. Unfortunately things haven't changed much today - "Black Lives Matter is Marxist" is one of many common tropes used in right wing media where the boogeyman of socialism is alive and well.

hprotagonist 6y ago
>leaned heavily towards socialism and economic justice... Not to be too on the nose, but another equally valid phrase here is “leaned heavily towards being a christian minister”, which he was. The religious motivations of the civil rights movement are ones we seem blind to, and the only reason i can think of for it is that when i, an american, hear “christian”, i have been taught think “republican suburban or rural white man probably interested in being horrible to gay people” instead of “democratic urban jew or black lady who is super damn interested in workers rights and housing access”. At a certain point one begins to wonder if that isn’t very carefully intentional. Tangentially: at some point, someone in the media is going to diff AOC’s speeches against the last 150 years of papal encyclicals and realize a few things about where her rhetoric originates. If you s/bipoc/the least of these, it’s slightly easier to see. If you know who Oscar Romero was, it's blindingly obvious.
- matwood 6y ago
  One of the GOPs greatest triumphs is co-opting and becoming the party of religion/Christianity.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    I feel that their greatest triumph is getting everyone to refer to them by that cutesy nickname “GOP” no matter how they are behaving.
    - lostcolony 6y ago
      Nobody translates it to "Grand Old Party". "GOP" is as much an epithet to those inclined to dislike the party, as it is a proud accolade for those inclined to like the party. Sort of like "liberal", though admittedly many who use that as an epithet make their meaning clear by changing it to 'libtard' or a similarly puerile play on words.
- sonotathrowaway 6y ago
  There were just as many religious motivations behind slavery and segregation as there was for it - actually more, in reality. In truth, evangelical Christianity has been one of the primary tools used to advance and justify segregation and slavery throughout western history, with some going so far as to equate rejection of slavery as no different than rejecting Christ. The predominant denomination of the south, Southern Baptist, was a denomination made because the northerners refused to appoint slavers as missionaries. The KKK has been a faithful supporter of Protestant Christianity. There was notable involvement in the abolitionist movement among northern Protestants, and civil rights activism among catholics, Jews, and northern Protestants - but acting as though that is in any way representative of American religion is missing 99% of the history. The major forces in American religion have always been opponents of civil rights of nonwhites, and it’s only quite recently, with the death and sanctification of MLK that they’ve been revising this history, and lauding MLK instead of calling him a reverse racist. Religion has always broken down among ethnic lines, the majority of American religion defended slavery and segregation as God’s Will.
  - hprotagonist 6y ago
    I certainly agree that white evangelical christianity in its modern (post-1619) incarnation is so completely entangled with american slavery that they’re indistinguishable. I don’t agree at all that that statement or population is somehow emblematic of “the real religion”, because the unspoken priors there are precisely the sort of white- and christian- centric circular definitions that, for example, white american evangelicals believe and promulgate. It’s giving up the game before you even get started. Tangentially, the sanctification of Dr. King as an american saint is part of an extremely long tradition of blunting the impact of prophets. If you put someone up on a pedestal you add them to a history that is done and somehow over and safe now. We remember “i have a dream” and tacitly conclude that the dream is realized now; we forget that King died largely hated and in the process of screaming against the war and organizing for (mostly white) trash collectors. And we forget that the work never stops. To conclude more hopefully, though, I’d also say that people do keep the flame alive — and, i suspect and pray, we’ll look back at this year as a time when the embers were fanned back up into a flame to get some more work done at a great cost.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  The civil rights movement was motivated by people wanting civil rights. People on both sides claimed religious support. Rural white Christians greatly outnumber urban Jewish Christians. Most major denominations discriminate against LGBT people. People who are super damn interested in worker rights and housing access aren't disproportionately Christians in my experience. Some are and some aren't.
  - FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
    > The civil rights movement was motivated by people wanting civil rights. People on both sides claimed religious support. Yeah, this a smart answer. > urban Jewish Christians This doesn't even make any sense. Judaism and Christianity are related but they're separate religions. > People who are super damn interested in worker rights and housing access aren't disproportionately Christians in my experience. Nowadays, yeah, though things like food banks and hospitals often still have Christian names, origins, and even (particularly older) members. And progressive institutions like the YMCA and the Salvation Army were explicitly Christian from the beginning. But you notice I am mostly naming older things.
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      I assume hprotagonist meant ethnic Jews. Charity and economic justice are different. Even the Salvation Army and many religious hospitals discriminate against LGBT people.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Rural white Christians greatly outnumber urban Jewish Christians Well, yeah, Jewish Christians, urban or rural, are pretty rare. Black and Hispanic Christians are more common. And if you look at regressive attitudes on race, it's mostly White Evangelic Protestants where those views are concentrated. White Catholics and White mainline protestants are fairly evenly split, and non-White Christians (what usually has big enough samples to show up in broad surveys are Hispanic Catholics and Black Evangelical Protestants) tip strongly the opposite direction as White Evangelical Protestants.

by 1986 6y ago

hprotagonist 6y ago

>leaned heavily towards socialism and economic justice... Not to be too on the nose, but another equally valid phrase here is “leaned heavily towards being a christian minister”, which he was. The religious motivations of the civil rights movement are ones we seem blind to, and the only reason i can think of for it is that when i, an american, hear “christian”, i have been taught think “republican suburban or rural white man probably interested in being horrible to gay people” instead of “democratic urban jew or black lady who is super damn interested in workers rights and housing access”. At a certain point one begins to wonder if that isn’t very carefully intentional. Tangentially: at some point, someone in the media is going to diff AOC’s speeches against the last 150 years of papal encyclicals and realize a few things about where her rhetoric originates. If you s/bipoc/the least of these, it’s slightly easier to see. If you know who Oscar Romero was, it's blindingly obvious.

matwood 6y ago
One of the GOPs greatest triumphs is co-opting and becoming the party of religion/Christianity.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  I feel that their greatest triumph is getting everyone to refer to them by that cutesy nickname “GOP” no matter how they are behaving.
  - lostcolony 6y ago
    Nobody translates it to "Grand Old Party". "GOP" is as much an epithet to those inclined to dislike the party, as it is a proud accolade for those inclined to like the party. Sort of like "liberal", though admittedly many who use that as an epithet make their meaning clear by changing it to 'libtard' or a similarly puerile play on words.
sonotathrowaway 6y ago
There were just as many religious motivations behind slavery and segregation as there was for it - actually more, in reality. In truth, evangelical Christianity has been one of the primary tools used to advance and justify segregation and slavery throughout western history, with some going so far as to equate rejection of slavery as no different than rejecting Christ. The predominant denomination of the south, Southern Baptist, was a denomination made because the northerners refused to appoint slavers as missionaries. The KKK has been a faithful supporter of Protestant Christianity. There was notable involvement in the abolitionist movement among northern Protestants, and civil rights activism among catholics, Jews, and northern Protestants - but acting as though that is in any way representative of American religion is missing 99% of the history. The major forces in American religion have always been opponents of civil rights of nonwhites, and it’s only quite recently, with the death and sanctification of MLK that they’ve been revising this history, and lauding MLK instead of calling him a reverse racist. Religion has always broken down among ethnic lines, the majority of American religion defended slavery and segregation as God’s Will.
- hprotagonist 6y ago
  I certainly agree that white evangelical christianity in its modern (post-1619) incarnation is so completely entangled with american slavery that they’re indistinguishable. I don’t agree at all that that statement or population is somehow emblematic of “the real religion”, because the unspoken priors there are precisely the sort of white- and christian- centric circular definitions that, for example, white american evangelicals believe and promulgate. It’s giving up the game before you even get started. Tangentially, the sanctification of Dr. King as an american saint is part of an extremely long tradition of blunting the impact of prophets. If you put someone up on a pedestal you add them to a history that is done and somehow over and safe now. We remember “i have a dream” and tacitly conclude that the dream is realized now; we forget that King died largely hated and in the process of screaming against the war and organizing for (mostly white) trash collectors. And we forget that the work never stops. To conclude more hopefully, though, I’d also say that people do keep the flame alive — and, i suspect and pray, we’ll look back at this year as a time when the embers were fanned back up into a flame to get some more work done at a great cost.
pseudalopex 6y ago
The civil rights movement was motivated by people wanting civil rights. People on both sides claimed religious support. Rural white Christians greatly outnumber urban Jewish Christians. Most major denominations discriminate against LGBT people. People who are super damn interested in worker rights and housing access aren't disproportionately Christians in my experience. Some are and some aren't.
- FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
  > The civil rights movement was motivated by people wanting civil rights. People on both sides claimed religious support. Yeah, this a smart answer. > urban Jewish Christians This doesn't even make any sense. Judaism and Christianity are related but they're separate religions. > People who are super damn interested in worker rights and housing access aren't disproportionately Christians in my experience. Nowadays, yeah, though things like food banks and hospitals often still have Christian names, origins, and even (particularly older) members. And progressive institutions like the YMCA and the Salvation Army were explicitly Christian from the beginning. But you notice I am mostly naming older things.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    I assume hprotagonist meant ethnic Jews. Charity and economic justice are different. Even the Salvation Army and many religious hospitals discriminate against LGBT people.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Rural white Christians greatly outnumber urban Jewish Christians Well, yeah, Jewish Christians, urban or rural, are pretty rare. Black and Hispanic Christians are more common. And if you look at regressive attitudes on race, it's mostly White Evangelic Protestants where those views are concentrated. White Catholics and White mainline protestants are fairly evenly split, and non-White Christians (what usually has big enough samples to show up in broad surveys are Hispanic Catholics and Black Evangelical Protestants) tip strongly the opposite direction as White Evangelical Protestants.