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Because as the sibling comments point out, the price of a Mac Pro isn't just an "Apple Tax^WPremium" over a desktop machine but is an order of magnitude more ex

by tolien 6y ago

Because as the sibling comments point out, the price of a Mac Pro isn't just an "Apple Tax^WPremium" over a desktop machine but is an order of magnitude more expensive (assuming you don't care about workstation-class components, i.e. Xeon Ws, Radeon Pro GPUs and ECC RAM). There's an enormous price gap between a Mac Mini and the Mac Pro (especially when the Mini now has higher single-threaded performance than the base Pro...) which Apple has widened in the last decade or two.

m463 6y ago
I've had a continuous string of Mac Pros from G3 to 2012 (MacPro 5,1) my main workhorse. I have continually updated and expanded it. The 2013 mac pro was a mess. pass. The latest mac pro... I think it wasn't just expensive, it was sort of sucker expensive.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  > The latest mac pro... I think it wasn't just expensive, it was sort of sucker expensive It's the kind of Mac that makes you get an iMac to put on your desk and a beefy Linux server-grade box you hide somewhere, but that does all your heavy lifting.
  - metalforever 6y ago
    Yep, thats what I did.
    - rbanffy 6y ago
      Some tools and OSs make it easier than others. I used to do a lot of work from my IBM 43P AIX workstation (great graphics card, huge monitor, model M keyboard) that actually ran on a more mundane Xeon downstairs. X made it even practical to browse the web on the 43P. It attracted some really confused looks in the office.
- brian_cunnie 6y ago
  > The 2013 mac pro was a mess. I appreciate that the 2013 mac pro wasn't for you, but it was perfect for me: small but powerful. Firstly: RAM. I was able to install 64 GiB on it, which enabled me to run Cloud Foundry on ESXi on Virtual Workstation on macOS. Non-Xeon chipsets maxed-out at (IIRC) 16 GiB and then later 32 GiB—not enough. Secondly, size & esthetics: it fits on my very small console table that I use as a desk. I have a modest apartment in San Francisco, and my living room is my office, and although I had a mini-tower in my living room, I didn't like the looks. Third, expandability: I was able to upgrade the RAM to 64 GiB, the SSD to 1 TB. I was able to upgrade the monitor to 4k. It has 6 Thunderbolt connections. My biggest surprise was how long it has lasted: I typically rollover my laptops every year or so, but this desktop? It's been able to do everything I've needed it to do for the last 7 years, so I continue to use it. [edited for grammar]
  - tolien 6y ago
    While the form factor was cool, how pissed would you have been if it broke and you were buying the exact same machine, for the same price (give or take), in 2018? Part of the "mess", I'd argue, was that Apple backed themselves into a thermal corner where they couldn't update the machine but also wouldn't cut its price so it got steadily worse value as time wore on.
    - matwood 6y ago
      > but also wouldn't cut its price so it got steadily worse value as time wore on This has long been an issue for Apple products. It's why the best time to buy an Apple product is right after an update.
      - tolien 6y ago
        You're not wrong but the Mac Pro went a particularly long time between updates.
        matwood 6y ago
        Oh, definitely. Look at the Apple TVs for another example. In both cases, if Apple would drop the price, even just yearly, they would sell so many more units.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  I just got a new Mac Pro. The only real upgrade I did from Apple was to the 12 core Xeon. Other than that I kept the base 32GB memory, though I did get a 1TB SSD from the 256GB base offering. ... then I went to NewEgg and got 192GB of memory for $800ish, rather than Apple's exorbitant $3,000. And seriously, why? Same manufacturer, same specs. And convenience factor? It took a good 45 seconds to install the memory, and I'd wager anyone could do it (it's on the 'underside' of the motherboard, all by itself, and has a little chart on the memory cover to tell you exactly what slots to use based on how many modules you have). And then I bought a 4x M.2 PCIe card and populated it with 2TB SSDs (that exceed the Apple, with sustained R/W of 4500MB/s according to Blackmagic) for just around $1,100, versus the $2,000 Apple wanted. Only downside is that it cannot be the boot drive (or maybe it can, but it can't be the _only_ drive).
emsy 6y ago
Exactly this. The closest to this would be an i7 iMac but not everyone wants an Aio PC. It’s kind of a bummer. We finally have an iPhone for everyone, even a high end small form factor option. Whoever is responsible for that decision please take a look at the Mac lineup next.
- tolien 6y ago
  There's even precedent for it: the iMac/iMac Pro. The Pro model has workstation-class hardware in it while the non-Pro does not. Ideally the enhanced cooling from the Pro models would trickle down to the non-Pro. By all reports the (i)Mac Pro is virtually silent but in the low-power ARM world a desktop machine that size could almost be passively cooled, even under load.
  - pbronez 6y ago
    Give them time maybe? I bet Apple would love to release an all-in-one iMac Pro powered by an iteration on the M1. They could put a Dolby Vision 8k display in it and drag race against Threadripper machines for UHD video workloads.
    - tolien 6y ago
      I mean, the iMac Pro came out in 2017 and there isn't much sign of anything trickling down to the standard iMac. Rumour is that the ARM Mac Pro will be significantly smaller than the Intel one - it'll be interesting to see how (or if) they support discrete GPUs.
    - llampx 6y ago
      Part of me laughs that an ARM chip could compete with a Threadripper, the other part of me seriously thinks it could happen.

by tolien 6y ago

m463 6y ago

I've had a continuous string of Mac Pros from G3 to 2012 (MacPro 5,1) my main workhorse. I have continually updated and expanded it. The 2013 mac pro was a mess. pass. The latest mac pro... I think it wasn't just expensive, it was sort of sucker expensive.

rbanffy 6y ago
> The latest mac pro... I think it wasn't just expensive, it was sort of sucker expensive It's the kind of Mac that makes you get an iMac to put on your desk and a beefy Linux server-grade box you hide somewhere, but that does all your heavy lifting.
- metalforever 6y ago
  Yep, thats what I did.
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    Some tools and OSs make it easier than others. I used to do a lot of work from my IBM 43P AIX workstation (great graphics card, huge monitor, model M keyboard) that actually ran on a more mundane Xeon downstairs. X made it even practical to browse the web on the 43P. It attracted some really confused looks in the office.
brian_cunnie 6y ago
> The 2013 mac pro was a mess. I appreciate that the 2013 mac pro wasn't for you, but it was perfect for me: small but powerful. Firstly: RAM. I was able to install 64 GiB on it, which enabled me to run Cloud Foundry on ESXi on Virtual Workstation on macOS. Non-Xeon chipsets maxed-out at (IIRC) 16 GiB and then later 32 GiB—not enough. Secondly, size & esthetics: it fits on my very small console table that I use as a desk. I have a modest apartment in San Francisco, and my living room is my office, and although I had a mini-tower in my living room, I didn't like the looks. Third, expandability: I was able to upgrade the RAM to 64 GiB, the SSD to 1 TB. I was able to upgrade the monitor to 4k. It has 6 Thunderbolt connections. My biggest surprise was how long it has lasted: I typically rollover my laptops every year or so, but this desktop? It's been able to do everything I've needed it to do for the last 7 years, so I continue to use it. [edited for grammar]
- tolien 6y ago
  While the form factor was cool, how pissed would you have been if it broke and you were buying the exact same machine, for the same price (give or take), in 2018? Part of the "mess", I'd argue, was that Apple backed themselves into a thermal corner where they couldn't update the machine but also wouldn't cut its price so it got steadily worse value as time wore on.
  - matwood 6y ago
    > but also wouldn't cut its price so it got steadily worse value as time wore on This has long been an issue for Apple products. It's why the best time to buy an Apple product is right after an update.
    - tolien 6y ago
      You're not wrong but the Mac Pro went a particularly long time between updates.
      - matwood 6y ago
        Oh, definitely. Look at the Apple TVs for another example. In both cases, if Apple would drop the price, even just yearly, they would sell so many more units.
FireBeyond 6y ago
I just got a new Mac Pro. The only real upgrade I did from Apple was to the 12 core Xeon. Other than that I kept the base 32GB memory, though I did get a 1TB SSD from the 256GB base offering. ... then I went to NewEgg and got 192GB of memory for $800ish, rather than Apple's exorbitant $3,000. And seriously, why? Same manufacturer, same specs. And convenience factor? It took a good 45 seconds to install the memory, and I'd wager anyone could do it (it's on the 'underside' of the motherboard, all by itself, and has a little chart on the memory cover to tell you exactly what slots to use based on how many modules you have). And then I bought a 4x M.2 PCIe card and populated it with 2TB SSDs (that exceed the Apple, with sustained R/W of 4500MB/s according to Blackmagic) for just around $1,100, versus the $2,000 Apple wanted. Only downside is that it cannot be the boot drive (or maybe it can, but it can't be the _only_ drive).

emsy 6y ago

Exactly this. The closest to this would be an i7 iMac but not everyone wants an Aio PC. It’s kind of a bummer. We finally have an iPhone for everyone, even a high end small form factor option. Whoever is responsible for that decision please take a look at the Mac lineup next.

tolien 6y ago
There's even precedent for it: the iMac/iMac Pro. The Pro model has workstation-class hardware in it while the non-Pro does not. Ideally the enhanced cooling from the Pro models would trickle down to the non-Pro. By all reports the (i)Mac Pro is virtually silent but in the low-power ARM world a desktop machine that size could almost be passively cooled, even under load.
- pbronez 6y ago
  Give them time maybe? I bet Apple would love to release an all-in-one iMac Pro powered by an iteration on the M1. They could put a Dolby Vision 8k display in it and drag race against Threadripper machines for UHD video workloads.
  - tolien 6y ago
    I mean, the iMac Pro came out in 2017 and there isn't much sign of anything trickling down to the standard iMac. Rumour is that the ARM Mac Pro will be significantly smaller than the Intel one - it'll be interesting to see how (or if) they support discrete GPUs.
  - llampx 6y ago
    Part of me laughs that an ARM chip could compete with a Threadripper, the other part of me seriously thinks it could happen.