4 ms·

Is anyone actually making any money on day-trading Bitcoins? I bought a couple Bitcoins back in 2012 and have just sat on them the last 8 years. In general, t

Is anyone actually making any money on day-trading Bitcoins? I bought a couple Bitcoins back in 2012 and have just sat on them the last 8 years. In general, the market for this stuff is so astronomically weird that it really doesn't make sense to try to trade in it at all..

nfriedly 6y ago
I made a trading bot that was moderately profitable, until the exchange it was using got hacked and lost all my coins :/ Edit: The source is available if anyone's interested. I intended to do more with it, but lost steam after I lost my coins. https://github.com/nfriedly/Coin-Allocator https://github.com/nfriedly/Coin-Allocator
- VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
  BTC-E?
  - nfriedly 6y ago
    No, cryptsy.
    - optimalsolver 6y ago
      Did you join in the class action lawsuit?
      - nfriedly 6y ago
        No, I don't think I even realized there was one. It's okay, thought, I only lost about $100. (I kept the balance low mainly because I didn't trust my own code yet.)
AnonsLadder 6y ago
Yes. Just look at the 3Daily chart of BTC/USD. It's absolutely bonkers
rudiger 6y ago
To answer your question: Yes. The volatility is a trader's dream. I've been holding a sizeable Bitcoin position[1] since 2011, but I'll acknowledge you can make a killing trading in bull markets or crushing bear markets. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2612486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2612486
- Jhsto 6y ago
  To my anecdotal experience, more like a market makers dream. If you do speculative HFT then for the unexperienced you may get crushed by huge slippages when exchanges crumble under a load. Notice that exchanges in the Bitcoin world either do not, or simply don't care, to guarantee availability during spiked trading. I don't say alpha is impossible, but probably requires certain degree of comprehension.
- augstein 6y ago
  May I ask for recommendations on where to trade Bitcoin? The fees on Coinbase (Pro), Kraken, etc seem prohibitive to me, especially for larger sums.* *) I‘m used to commission free stock trading with no volume limits in Germany, for any private individual. Don‘t know how this handled in other countries though.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    For low volume, manual purchases, Robinhood is comission-free. If you want to make a bot and need an API, there will be fees.
    - panarky 6y ago
      Is it really free or is there a bid-ask spread? For example, if you buy 1 BTC and then immediately sell it, will you get the same number of dollars back?
      - iav 6y ago
        No market anywhere can offer that
barce 6y ago
Yeah, created a bot that just trades the 1D MACD on Ethereum on a point & figure chart crossing up. Ridic how profitable this is. Proof is backtest on tradingview.
xiphias2 6y ago
I have a friend who had a bot that was front running users when the Kraken trading engine was much slower....his bot stopped working when Kraken updated the engine though.
- kasey_junk 6y ago
  You don’t mean front running. That’s a term of art in trading that means a specific thing. That is, trading against someone’s position you know in advance and you have a fiduciary duty on their behalf (e.g. your brokerage trading against you).
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    Sure, maybe just simple arbitrage. To tell you the truth I don't know the exact details. Of course he wasn't doing anything illegal (I wouldn't write about it), he didn't have any special access to the exchange
shiado 6y ago
Yes, but don't waste your time with American exchanges, the regulations are too burdensome. Bitmex actually maintains a high score section, a lot of people are doing extremely crazy things trading in the crypto space https://www.bitmex.com/app/leaderboard https://www.bitmex.com/app/leaderboard
- paulie_a 6y ago
  As a legal citizen and with regular bank, coinbase was super easy. It was barely an inconvenience unlike the old days when trading really dodgy coins
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
bananaface 6y ago
Weirdness is good. If the market is weird, it means people don't know how to exploit it, i.e. you actually have a chance of finding an edge that hasn't been exhausted by someone else. There isn't a compendium of standard tactics that "work" in normal markets. If there were, they would no longer be profitable. Anything that works is secret & novel, and finding a novel approach to an old market is harder than finding a novel approach to a weird one.
paulie_a 6y ago
Lately it's become fun again. Huge swings day to day and even hour to hour
EGreg 6y ago
I had Bitcoins in 2013 back when it was $50 and then lost them daytrading on margin at BitFinex. Would have 500x my money in several years. Listen the rule is simple: 1. After a crash, buy BTC and just forget about it until some alert that BTC has exploded 5x or more 2. If BTC had a big run up, buy ETH instead 3. If ETH had a big run up, next buy XRP 4. If XRP had a big run up, then escape into tethers and wait for crash Repeat :) If you did this sequence the last few times then ONE bull run nets you 5 x 5 x 5 returns!
- desdiv 6y ago
  To be fair, if you brought $50 Bitcoins in 2013, you would have 380x your money today by doing nothing. I'm sure your trading strategy is sound, but it's still a lot of work over the years to get the 500x gain, vs the 380x gain from just doing nothing. (This comment is in jest. I realize "500x" is a figure of speech and not meant as a literal claim of performance.)
- capnorange 6y ago
  @inversebrah
  - possiblelion 6y ago
    hahah, was going to say the same thing.
bouncycastle 6y ago
Nope. But when the volume and volatility is high like it is right now, it can be profitable to be a liquidity provider instead. It's actually very easy to provide liquidity to Uniswap and other decentralized such as Curve.fi - both have bitcoin-paired pools.

nfriedly 6y ago

I made a trading bot that was moderately profitable, until the exchange it was using got hacked and lost all my coins :/ Edit: The source is available if anyone's interested. I intended to do more with it, but lost steam after I lost my coins. https://github.com/nfriedly/Coin-Allocator https://github.com/nfriedly/Coin-Allocator

VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
BTC-E?
- nfriedly 6y ago
  No, cryptsy.
  - optimalsolver 6y ago
    Did you join in the class action lawsuit?
    - nfriedly 6y ago
      No, I don't think I even realized there was one. It's okay, thought, I only lost about $100. (I kept the balance low mainly because I didn't trust my own code yet.)

AnonsLadder 6y ago

Yes. Just look at the 3Daily chart of BTC/USD. It's absolutely bonkers

rudiger 6y ago

To answer your question: Yes. The volatility is a trader's dream. I've been holding a sizeable Bitcoin position[1] since 2011, but I'll acknowledge you can make a killing trading in bull markets or crushing bear markets. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2612486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2612486

Jhsto 6y ago
To my anecdotal experience, more like a market makers dream. If you do speculative HFT then for the unexperienced you may get crushed by huge slippages when exchanges crumble under a load. Notice that exchanges in the Bitcoin world either do not, or simply don't care, to guarantee availability during spiked trading. I don't say alpha is impossible, but probably requires certain degree of comprehension.
augstein 6y ago
May I ask for recommendations on where to trade Bitcoin? The fees on Coinbase (Pro), Kraken, etc seem prohibitive to me, especially for larger sums.* *) I‘m used to commission free stock trading with no volume limits in Germany, for any private individual. Don‘t know how this handled in other countries though.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  For low volume, manual purchases, Robinhood is comission-free. If you want to make a bot and need an API, there will be fees.
  - panarky 6y ago
    Is it really free or is there a bid-ask spread? For example, if you buy 1 BTC and then immediately sell it, will you get the same number of dollars back?
    - iav 6y ago
      No market anywhere can offer that

barce 6y ago

Yeah, created a bot that just trades the 1D MACD on Ethereum on a point & figure chart crossing up. Ridic how profitable this is. Proof is backtest on tradingview.

xiphias2 6y ago

I have a friend who had a bot that was front running users when the Kraken trading engine was much slower....his bot stopped working when Kraken updated the engine though.

kasey_junk 6y ago
You don’t mean front running. That’s a term of art in trading that means a specific thing. That is, trading against someone’s position you know in advance and you have a fiduciary duty on their behalf (e.g. your brokerage trading against you).
- xiphias2 6y ago
  Sure, maybe just simple arbitrage. To tell you the truth I don't know the exact details. Of course he wasn't doing anything illegal (I wouldn't write about it), he didn't have any special access to the exchange

shiado 6y ago

Yes, but don't waste your time with American exchanges, the regulations are too burdensome. Bitmex actually maintains a high score section, a lot of people are doing extremely crazy things trading in the crypto space https://www.bitmex.com/app/leaderboard https://www.bitmex.com/app/leaderboard

paulie_a 6y ago
As a legal citizen and with regular bank, coinbase was super easy. It was barely an inconvenience unlike the old days when trading really dodgy coins
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

bananaface 6y ago

Weirdness is good. If the market is weird, it means people don't know how to exploit it, i.e. you actually have a chance of finding an edge that hasn't been exhausted by someone else. There isn't a compendium of standard tactics that "work" in normal markets. If there were, they would no longer be profitable. Anything that works is secret & novel, and finding a novel approach to an old market is harder than finding a novel approach to a weird one.

paulie_a 6y ago

Lately it's become fun again. Huge swings day to day and even hour to hour

EGreg 6y ago

I had Bitcoins in 2013 back when it was $50 and then lost them daytrading on margin at BitFinex. Would have 500x my money in several years. Listen the rule is simple: 1. After a crash, buy BTC and just forget about it until some alert that BTC has exploded 5x or more 2. If BTC had a big run up, buy ETH instead 3. If ETH had a big run up, next buy XRP 4. If XRP had a big run up, then escape into tethers and wait for crash Repeat :) If you did this sequence the last few times then ONE bull run nets you 5 x 5 x 5 returns!

desdiv 6y ago
To be fair, if you brought $50 Bitcoins in 2013, you would have 380x your money today by doing nothing. I'm sure your trading strategy is sound, but it's still a lot of work over the years to get the 500x gain, vs the 380x gain from just doing nothing. (This comment is in jest. I realize "500x" is a figure of speech and not meant as a literal claim of performance.)
capnorange 6y ago
@inversebrah
- possiblelion 6y ago
  hahah, was going to say the same thing.

bouncycastle 6y ago

Nope. But when the volume and volatility is high like it is right now, it can be profitable to be a liquidity provider instead. It's actually very easy to provide liquidity to Uniswap and other decentralized such as Curve.fi - both have bitcoin-paired pools.