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I wonder if they are worried about the exception to that clause: "... provided that the courses are the equivalent of courses ordinarily required for the comple

I wonder if they are worried about the exception to that clause: "... provided that the courses are the equivalent of courses ordinarily required for the completion of undergraduate degree programs in the humanities, social sciences, law, or business, or are introductory undergraduate level science, technology, engineering, or math courses ordinarily required for the completion of undergraduate degree programs in the humanities, social sciences, law, or business." I wonder if these MOOC providers don't want to go through the headache of proving that their courses are equivalent and therefore preemptively took them down.

bpodgursky 6y ago
Yeah, I mean, I really doubt Edx has a particular vendetta against Iranians. It's a huge legal problem if it turns out that one or another Justice Department decides you're violating sanctions, in exchange for... no real gain. (I suspect that accepting payment from Iran is another huge risk in itself)
- serf 6y ago
  >in exchange for... no real gain. well, except for accomplishing the first bullet on their mission statement.[0] 'Increase access to high-quality education for everyone, everywhere' [0]: https://open.edx.org/about-open-edx/ https://open.edx.org/about-open-edx/
  - x0x0 6y ago
    That's awfully facile. Some exec has to sign off on this. Even if the attorney says X is probably okay, that exec is risking spending the next year talking to attorneys -- or worse -- if a xenophobic congressperson or racist treasury employee gets mad at his or her employer. Or even here [1] from 2014 > Tena Herlihy, edX’s general counsel, said the company has since last May worked with the U.S. State Department and the Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control, and has so far applied for and received company-specific licenses for its MOOCs to enroll students in Cuba and Iran (a third license, for Sudan, is still in the works). Is that the best use of extremely limited exec time, fully taking the mission into account? [1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/01/28/state-dept-blocks-access-moocs-countries-economic-sanctions https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/01/28/state-dept-bl...
- Fazel94 6y ago
  Payments on the exempted course are okay to process(according to the document) The real gain is people gaining access to quality education that really need it.
tzs 6y ago
I wonder if it could be that a significant fraction of their courses do not fall under that exception, and for some reason they do want to have to keep track on a per course basis of who is or is not allowed to take it? Most STEM courses would not qualify, because most of them are not requirements for an undergraduate degree in humanities, social science, law, or business. Looking at the courses I've taken from EdX and Coursera, I think that the only one that might qualify for the exception is game theory--it might be required for some social science degrees. All the others were equivalent to courses required for STEM degrees only.
- Fazel94 6y ago
  I tried to do Probability Theory and Statistics courses that, I think would qualify for the matter.
- jklein11 6y ago
  Nice catch, I didn't even read it that closely to notice that it excluded STEM degrees. It is interesting because my undergraduate degree in a social science, economics, required that I take at least 2 stem courses. Typically the requirement is filled by 2 introductory level science courses but I'm sure higher level science courses would have satisfied it as well. It would certainly be a risk to offer courses with out further guidance from the state department.
Fazel94 6y ago
Me too, suspect that convenience is the issue here. Again I expected more of a non-profit like Edx.
- jklein11 6y ago
  I don't think it is entirely out of convenience. If edx gets shut down or faces fines for violating the US sanctions on Iran it hurts their broader goal of support global education. I can understand it is frustrating being in Iran and not having access to the course materials, but from the perspective of edx providing these materials in Iran might not be the hill they want to die on. I think there might be space for a smaller company/non-profit to test this. If your organization's sole mission is to provide this content to Iranians. The legal uncertainty could provide a big enough moat to establish yourself.

bpodgursky 6y ago

Yeah, I mean, I really doubt Edx has a particular vendetta against Iranians. It's a huge legal problem if it turns out that one or another Justice Department decides you're violating sanctions, in exchange for... no real gain. (I suspect that accepting payment from Iran is another huge risk in itself)

serf 6y ago
>in exchange for... no real gain. well, except for accomplishing the first bullet on their mission statement.[0] 'Increase access to high-quality education for everyone, everywhere' [0]: https://open.edx.org/about-open-edx/ https://open.edx.org/about-open-edx/
- x0x0 6y ago
  That's awfully facile. Some exec has to sign off on this. Even if the attorney says X is probably okay, that exec is risking spending the next year talking to attorneys -- or worse -- if a xenophobic congressperson or racist treasury employee gets mad at his or her employer. Or even here [1] from 2014 > Tena Herlihy, edX’s general counsel, said the company has since last May worked with the U.S. State Department and the Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control, and has so far applied for and received company-specific licenses for its MOOCs to enroll students in Cuba and Iran (a third license, for Sudan, is still in the works). Is that the best use of extremely limited exec time, fully taking the mission into account? [1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/01/28/state-dept-blocks-access-moocs-countries-economic-sanctions https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/01/28/state-dept-bl...
Fazel94 6y ago
Payments on the exempted course are okay to process(according to the document) The real gain is people gaining access to quality education that really need it.

tzs 6y ago

I wonder if it could be that a significant fraction of their courses do not fall under that exception, and for some reason they do want to have to keep track on a per course basis of who is or is not allowed to take it? Most STEM courses would not qualify, because most of them are not requirements for an undergraduate degree in humanities, social science, law, or business. Looking at the courses I've taken from EdX and Coursera, I think that the only one that might qualify for the exception is game theory--it might be required for some social science degrees. All the others were equivalent to courses required for STEM degrees only.

Fazel94 6y ago
I tried to do Probability Theory and Statistics courses that, I think would qualify for the matter.
jklein11 6y ago
Nice catch, I didn't even read it that closely to notice that it excluded STEM degrees. It is interesting because my undergraduate degree in a social science, economics, required that I take at least 2 stem courses. Typically the requirement is filled by 2 introductory level science courses but I'm sure higher level science courses would have satisfied it as well. It would certainly be a risk to offer courses with out further guidance from the state department.

Fazel94 6y ago

Me too, suspect that convenience is the issue here. Again I expected more of a non-profit like Edx.

jklein11 6y ago
I don't think it is entirely out of convenience. If edx gets shut down or faces fines for violating the US sanctions on Iran it hurts their broader goal of support global education. I can understand it is frustrating being in Iran and not having access to the course materials, but from the perspective of edx providing these materials in Iran might not be the hill they want to die on. I think there might be space for a smaller company/non-profit to test this. If your organization's sole mission is to provide this content to Iranians. The legal uncertainty could provide a big enough moat to establish yourself.