8 ms·

JFK in Trauma Room One: A Witness Remembers

122 points by Hooke 6y ago

scrozier 6y ago
Trauma Room One still exists. At least it did several years ago. I went to Parkland for a CT scan (my wife is a doctor there) and in this rather bustling, fairly mundane room, there was a modest plaque, identifying the room as Trauma Room One. Kind of an interesting feeling to be there. A few years ago, Parkland built a huge new hospital across the street, and I doubt that that room is still in use. But I could be wrong,
- ortusdux 6y ago
  Makes me think of this West Wing opener: https://youtu.be/fAgZVVn_rYg?t=195 https://youtu.be/fAgZVVn_rYg?t=195
  - asadlionpk 6y ago
    Wow, that was so cool!
  - reitzensteinm 6y ago
    The way they didn't realize Bartlet was shot until he started to bleed from the mouth was copied straight from what happened to Reagan. During the West Wing, Sorkin was a master at dramatizing real life when it worked, or inventing plot points completely when that would play better. Like Christan Slater destroying his $1400 glass ash tray with a hammer to demonstrate that it's expensive because it's designed to break in to dull pieces and thereby not be dangerous in the heat of naval combat, justifying the cost. Except in real life they'd just use one made of metal. That so much of it was authentic (to a television standard) gave suspension of disbelief for the made up bits, and seasons 1-4 are consequently some of the best television ever made.
    - Zelphyr 6y ago
      Somehow, after all the rewatches over the last 20 years, that show still has the ability to give me goosebumps during scenes like that. Masterful is the only word I can think to describe The West Wing. Masterful writing, acting, directing, etc... It also happens to be one of the funniest shows. "WOOT CANAW!" "They won't let me smoke inside but you can pee in Leo's closet."
RickJWagner 6y ago
" That's another moment that's indelibly imprinted on my brain, unfortunately." An amazing story. Thanks to the poster.
jjt-yn_t 6y ago
A long thread follows that article, for those at first disinclined to read.
lqet 6y ago
> There's something else: One my best friends growing up in Dallas was named Henry Zapruder. His father was Abraham Zapruder [the Dallas dressmaker who shot the famous film of the assassination.] I knew the Zapruders very well, and had been in their home many times. What are the odds of that. Maybe we need something like the Erdős-Number, but for the JFK assasination.
- mulmen 6y ago
  Given the number of people involved it seems likely. It's like the birthday paradox.
  - jetrink 6y ago
    Also, given the fact that one was using a video camera (a very expensive hobby back then) and one was a medical student, they were more likely to travel in the same social circles and be closely connected than the average pair of people living in Dallas.
    - nradov 6y ago
      Abraham Zapruder was using an 8mm home movie film camera, not video.
simlevesque 6y ago
Yeah, that one regret must feel heavy sometimes. He could have changed history. It's absolutely not his fault and he did everything right, but... what if ?
- rtx 6y ago
  You are not allowed to change history too much.
  - shadowprofile77 6y ago
    Because the past is obdurate.
CapriciousCptl 6y ago
> This was supposedly due to Dr. Tom Shires, the chief of surgery, popularizing the use of intravenous fluids acutely rather than blood transfusions. I find that comment interesting since current state of the art in trauma resuscitation is transfusing relatively early, based on solid data out of the Iraq war.
danuker 6y ago
> You didn't talk publicly about assisting in Trauma Room One until you appeared in the 1993 book JFK: Breaking the Silence. How come? > Because I was afraid. There were so many people who were associated with the assassination who had died, sometimes by questionable means. Could have something to do with the speech from April 27, 1961: > For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. I will do my best to expose them. I am not an American, but I am against communists and fascists as Americans were back then. Stay vigilant! Vote with your ideals.
- pjkundert 6y ago
  You might be about to have your wish fulfilled. Be careful what you wish for...
  - markus_zhang 6y ago
    I really hope somehow this gets solved and someone (even long dead) gets convicted.
- stainforth 6y ago
  People did both vote and elect JFK by their ideals. He was then assassinated.
  - ekianjo 6y ago
    It's also very likely the election of JFK was rigged. After all the JFK family had a long history of mob ties.
    - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      I wouldn’t say likely, but it is certainly possible. The Chicago machine was still a thing back then.
markus_zhang 6y ago
> Because I was afraid. There were so many people who were associated with the assassination who had died, sometimes by questionable means. Well, I guess we will never get into the bottom of the story.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  Who knows. I've never had more than a passing curiosity about the conspiracy rabbit hole that is the JFK assassination. When I saw recently though someone suggest the possibility that a Secret Service agent may have accidentally hit Kennedy I saw suddenly how that explanation seemed not only to put a lot of the puzzle pieces together (at least the more common quandaries you hear about) but seemed to me plausible as well. Then again, with all things, it seems impossible they could have covered up something like that without someone leaking/talking.
  - PenisBanana 6y ago
    > it seems impossible they could have covered up something like that without someone leaking/talking. You haven't ever (!?) heard of 'leaking/talking'? That's a huge rock you've been under, and a well-greased cannonball you've swallowed, my friend.
- AlexCoventry 6y ago
  A Cruel and Shocking Act: The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination doesn't really get to the bottom of it, but it's a great book about the Kennedy assassination, and contains new information (including evidence that Oswald had a CIA handler in Mexico City.) https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/book-review-a-cruel-and-shocking-act-by-philip-shenon/2013/10/25/867bb340-3b3a-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/book-review-a-cruel-...
  - markus_zhang 6y ago
    A few years ago, when I was researching Michele Sindona and Propoganda Due, I stumbled upon a blog that talked extensively about the Kennedy case as well as the Bloomfield files. It also hinted about Montreal being the possible staging area for the assasination (as in Lincoln's case). Back in 2013 I managed to book an appointment to take a look at the Bloomfield files but dropped it because I'm not sure what I might find in the files (although I do believe that the most important parts have been well protected till today and won't be released to the public forever), as even the released docs look interesting (hint: involving Rothchild and Freemansonry). After a bit of search I managed to find it again: http://somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/2010/04/why-bloomfield-archives-should-be.html http://somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/2010/04/why-bloomfield...
subsubzero 6y ago
Interestingly, the Surgeon(Robert McClelland ) who tried to save both JFk and Oswald's life died a few months ago, his obituary in the economist is an interesting read: > The neck wound might have been entry or exit, but the back of the head clearly showed a huge exit wound; so the first bullet probably came from the back, and the second from the front, from different gunmen. also from the same article: >Several other aspects went on troubling him. There was no post-mortem in Texas, against state law; the body went at once to Bethesda. He was shown autopsy pictures at the National Archives in which the exit wound was covered up. Article: https://beta.trimread.com/articles/52767 https://beta.trimread.com/articles/52767
- mav3rick 6y ago
  As per your first quote the 2nd one could be entry or exit. So why is it claimed that there was a 2nd gunman ?
  - markus_zhang 6y ago
    >so the first bullet probably came from the back, and the second from the front, from different gunmen.
    - grosswait 6y ago
      > The neck wound might have been entry or exit
      - mav3rick 6y ago
        I don't know why everyone is ignoring this part.
      - markdown 6y ago
        So since we have an exit elsewhere, this one was the entry.
    - wahern 6y ago
      That conclusion doesn't follow from the stated premises. The most basic missing premise is that Oswald was positioned (inside the book depository) behind the motorcade. See https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/DealeyPlazaAerial.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/DealeyPl... Of course, there are many other necessary premises wherein lie the interminable debate. But if you assume (as it seems the doctor did) that at least one shot (possibly a miss) came from Oswald behind the president, who was facing forward; and one shot came from ahead of the president exiting the back of his head, the scenario the doctor believed the evidence demanded; then you must conclude at least two shooters.
kneel 6y ago
Who are all these experts on exit/entrance wounds shot from 200 yards away? I did a deep dive into this conspiracy a while back and couldn't find anything of substance.
- rsync 6y ago
  Everything you need to know is summed up in about three minutes here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBz3PqA2Fmc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBz3PqA2Fmc "Back, and to the left ..."
pstuart 6y ago
As a side note, I found it interesting that Trump was supposed to release sealed records on the assassination, but declined at the last second: https://www.history.com/news/final-jfk-files-assassination-documents-release https://www.history.com/news/final-jfk-files-assassination-d... What the hell is being hidden?
- mhh__ 6y ago
  If I had to guess it's probably something relatively mundane but embarrassing for the various 3 letter agencies involved at the time. If it was "The CIA shot JFK", regardless of improbability, it would have to be a moon-landing level cover up with the sheer number of people that have flowed through over the years (some of which have been traitors let's keep in mind, although I'm not sure many would've had the clearance to find out)
- fit2rule 6y ago
  >What the hell is being hidden? Mossad. Dimona.
galaxyLogic 6y ago
The argument against "conspiracy theories" is often that no way could they keep it secret because so many people were involved, someone would have leaked it. But now we are in a situation where much of the Republican party does not dare to speak against Trump no matter how ludicrous it seems when he says he won the election because the election was "rigged". If Biden had NOT won the election the general official consensus might be that Muller investigation was a hoax and anybody who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist. History is written by the winners. I think many people have a somewhat naive assumption that "truth will always come out"-- and therefore if it has not come out it can only be a conspiracy theory.
- jjcon 6y ago
  > If Biden had NOT won the election the general official consensus might be that Muller investigation was a hoax I mean... in some sense isn't that kind of the general consensus right now
  - galaxyLogic 6y ago
    At least on Foxed News :-)

122 points by Hooke 6y ago

Trauma Room One still exists. At least it did several years ago. I went to Parkland for a CT scan (my wife is a doctor there) and in this rather bustling, fairly mundane room, there was a modest plaque, identifying the room as Trauma Room One. Kind of an interesting feeling to be there. A few years ago, Parkland built a huge new hospital across the street, and I doubt that that room is still in use. But I could be wrong,

ortusdux 6y ago
Makes me think of this West Wing opener: https://youtu.be/fAgZVVn_rYg?t=195 https://youtu.be/fAgZVVn_rYg?t=195
- asadlionpk 6y ago
  Wow, that was so cool!
- reitzensteinm 6y ago
  The way they didn't realize Bartlet was shot until he started to bleed from the mouth was copied straight from what happened to Reagan. During the West Wing, Sorkin was a master at dramatizing real life when it worked, or inventing plot points completely when that would play better. Like Christan Slater destroying his $1400 glass ash tray with a hammer to demonstrate that it's expensive because it's designed to break in to dull pieces and thereby not be dangerous in the heat of naval combat, justifying the cost. Except in real life they'd just use one made of metal. That so much of it was authentic (to a television standard) gave suspension of disbelief for the made up bits, and seasons 1-4 are consequently some of the best television ever made.
  - Zelphyr 6y ago
    Somehow, after all the rewatches over the last 20 years, that show still has the ability to give me goosebumps during scenes like that. Masterful is the only word I can think to describe The West Wing. Masterful writing, acting, directing, etc... It also happens to be one of the funniest shows. "WOOT CANAW!" "They won't let me smoke inside but you can pee in Leo's closet."

RickJWagner 6y ago

" That's another moment that's indelibly imprinted on my brain, unfortunately." An amazing story. Thanks to the poster.

jjt-yn_t 6y ago

A long thread follows that article, for those at first disinclined to read.

lqet 6y ago

> There's something else: One my best friends growing up in Dallas was named Henry Zapruder. His father was Abraham Zapruder [the Dallas dressmaker who shot the famous film of the assassination.] I knew the Zapruders very well, and had been in their home many times. What are the odds of that. Maybe we need something like the Erdős-Number, but for the JFK assasination.

mulmen 6y ago
Given the number of people involved it seems likely. It's like the birthday paradox.
- jetrink 6y ago
  Also, given the fact that one was using a video camera (a very expensive hobby back then) and one was a medical student, they were more likely to travel in the same social circles and be closely connected than the average pair of people living in Dallas.
  - nradov 6y ago
    Abraham Zapruder was using an 8mm home movie film camera, not video.

simlevesque 6y ago

Yeah, that one regret must feel heavy sometimes. He could have changed history. It's absolutely not his fault and he did everything right, but... what if ?

rtx 6y ago
You are not allowed to change history too much.
- shadowprofile77 6y ago
  Because the past is obdurate.

CapriciousCptl 6y ago

> This was supposedly due to Dr. Tom Shires, the chief of surgery, popularizing the use of intravenous fluids acutely rather than blood transfusions. I find that comment interesting since current state of the art in trauma resuscitation is transfusing relatively early, based on solid data out of the Iraq war.

danuker 6y ago

> You didn't talk publicly about assisting in Trauma Room One until you appeared in the 1993 book JFK: Breaking the Silence. How come? > Because I was afraid. There were so many people who were associated with the assassination who had died, sometimes by questionable means. Could have something to do with the speech from April 27, 1961: > For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. I will do my best to expose them. I am not an American, but I am against communists and fascists as Americans were back then. Stay vigilant! Vote with your ideals.

pjkundert 6y ago
You might be about to have your wish fulfilled. Be careful what you wish for...
- markus_zhang 6y ago
  I really hope somehow this gets solved and someone (even long dead) gets convicted.
stainforth 6y ago
People did both vote and elect JFK by their ideals. He was then assassinated.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  It's also very likely the election of JFK was rigged. After all the JFK family had a long history of mob ties.
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    I wouldn’t say likely, but it is certainly possible. The Chicago machine was still a thing back then.

markus_zhang 6y ago

> Because I was afraid. There were so many people who were associated with the assassination who had died, sometimes by questionable means. Well, I guess we will never get into the bottom of the story.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
Who knows. I've never had more than a passing curiosity about the conspiracy rabbit hole that is the JFK assassination. When I saw recently though someone suggest the possibility that a Secret Service agent may have accidentally hit Kennedy I saw suddenly how that explanation seemed not only to put a lot of the puzzle pieces together (at least the more common quandaries you hear about) but seemed to me plausible as well. Then again, with all things, it seems impossible they could have covered up something like that without someone leaking/talking.
- PenisBanana 6y ago
  > it seems impossible they could have covered up something like that without someone leaking/talking. You haven't ever (!?) heard of 'leaking/talking'? That's a huge rock you've been under, and a well-greased cannonball you've swallowed, my friend.
AlexCoventry 6y ago
A Cruel and Shocking Act: The Secret History of the Kennedy Assassination doesn't really get to the bottom of it, but it's a great book about the Kennedy assassination, and contains new information (including evidence that Oswald had a CIA handler in Mexico City.) https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/book-review-a-cruel-and-shocking-act-by-philip-shenon/2013/10/25/867bb340-3b3a-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/book-review-a-cruel-...
- markus_zhang 6y ago
  A few years ago, when I was researching Michele Sindona and Propoganda Due, I stumbled upon a blog that talked extensively about the Kennedy case as well as the Bloomfield files. It also hinted about Montreal being the possible staging area for the assasination (as in Lincoln's case). Back in 2013 I managed to book an appointment to take a look at the Bloomfield files but dropped it because I'm not sure what I might find in the files (although I do believe that the most important parts have been well protected till today and won't be released to the public forever), as even the released docs look interesting (hint: involving Rothchild and Freemansonry). After a bit of search I managed to find it again: http://somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/2010/04/why-bloomfield-archives-should-be.html http://somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/2010/04/why-bloomfield...

subsubzero 6y ago

Interestingly, the Surgeon(Robert McClelland ) who tried to save both JFk and Oswald's life died a few months ago, his obituary in the economist is an interesting read: > The neck wound might have been entry or exit, but the back of the head clearly showed a huge exit wound; so the first bullet probably came from the back, and the second from the front, from different gunmen. also from the same article: >Several other aspects went on troubling him. There was no post-mortem in Texas, against state law; the body went at once to Bethesda. He was shown autopsy pictures at the National Archives in which the exit wound was covered up. Article: https://beta.trimread.com/articles/52767 https://beta.trimread.com/articles/52767

mav3rick 6y ago
As per your first quote the 2nd one could be entry or exit. So why is it claimed that there was a 2nd gunman ?
- markus_zhang 6y ago
  >so the first bullet probably came from the back, and the second from the front, from different gunmen.
  - grosswait 6y ago
    > The neck wound might have been entry or exit
    - mav3rick 6y ago
      I don't know why everyone is ignoring this part.
    - markdown 6y ago
      So since we have an exit elsewhere, this one was the entry.
  - wahern 6y ago
    That conclusion doesn't follow from the stated premises. The most basic missing premise is that Oswald was positioned (inside the book depository) behind the motorcade. See https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/DealeyPlazaAerial.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/DealeyPl... Of course, there are many other necessary premises wherein lie the interminable debate. But if you assume (as it seems the doctor did) that at least one shot (possibly a miss) came from Oswald behind the president, who was facing forward; and one shot came from ahead of the president exiting the back of his head, the scenario the doctor believed the evidence demanded; then you must conclude at least two shooters.

kneel 6y ago

Who are all these experts on exit/entrance wounds shot from 200 yards away? I did a deep dive into this conspiracy a while back and couldn't find anything of substance.

rsync 6y ago
Everything you need to know is summed up in about three minutes here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBz3PqA2Fmc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBz3PqA2Fmc "Back, and to the left ..."

pstuart 6y ago

As a side note, I found it interesting that Trump was supposed to release sealed records on the assassination, but declined at the last second: https://www.history.com/news/final-jfk-files-assassination-documents-release https://www.history.com/news/final-jfk-files-assassination-d... What the hell is being hidden?

mhh__ 6y ago
If I had to guess it's probably something relatively mundane but embarrassing for the various 3 letter agencies involved at the time. If it was "The CIA shot JFK", regardless of improbability, it would have to be a moon-landing level cover up with the sheer number of people that have flowed through over the years (some of which have been traitors let's keep in mind, although I'm not sure many would've had the clearance to find out)
fit2rule 6y ago
>What the hell is being hidden? Mossad. Dimona.

galaxyLogic 6y ago

The argument against "conspiracy theories" is often that no way could they keep it secret because so many people were involved, someone would have leaked it. But now we are in a situation where much of the Republican party does not dare to speak against Trump no matter how ludicrous it seems when he says he won the election because the election was "rigged". If Biden had NOT won the election the general official consensus might be that Muller investigation was a hoax and anybody who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist. History is written by the winners. I think many people have a somewhat naive assumption that "truth will always come out"-- and therefore if it has not come out it can only be a conspiracy theory.

jjcon 6y ago
> If Biden had NOT won the election the general official consensus might be that Muller investigation was a hoax I mean... in some sense isn't that kind of the general consensus right now
- galaxyLogic 6y ago
  At least on Foxed News :-)