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I get the knee-jerk reaction to look for scripts that fake activity and call this spying, but despite the name on the page, these kinds of metrics seem more foc

I get the knee-jerk reaction to look for scripts that fake activity and call this spying, but despite the name on the page, these kinds of metrics seem more focused on adoption of "productivity tools" (industry jargon for the suite) than measuring actual productivity. IT leaders are always looking to show that technology tools that they pay for are being used and MSFT has an interest in providing visibility to encourage proactive communication and training to deepen penetration. Maybe there are other screens that show more detail and it would be fair to disregard my comment in that case, but just based on what is in the twitter thread, metrics that count the number of days that a tool is used at least once are about as innocuous as they get.

dimitrios1 6y ago
Not to pick on you here, but to me, this is case and point of the type of "privacy rot" we have allowed to settle in the psyche of American minds. Imagine if it was discovered that Bell, or Motorolla, or Cisco installed taps on business phones in the 80s and 90s to see which "productivity features" were being used, or for "reporting" -- it would make national headlines and businesses would be up in arms. To me this is the worst side effect of the modern internet we have built, where data is being mined and pumped into every orifice available: we've lost a sense of what our privacy is truly worth. Thankfully, this latest generation is starting to lash out against it.
- philipodonnell 6y ago
  Its a fair point, just a bit of a tough spot to put IT in, you know? If I buy a tool for my employees to use I want to know if they are using it to see if I am getting my money's worth. How would I do that if any attempt to measure usage, not matter how high level, is "spying"?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Grimm665 6y ago
    Maybe talk to them?
  - user9372829 6y ago
    Please, ask him
  - yodelshady 6y ago
    How could I establish if my employees, aka human beings with a brain and set of vocal chords or functional equivalent, use a given tool? I know what you mean but if that's satire, it's excellent.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    Seriously? Ask them if they use it and what they think about it. I am so lucky that our IT actually values privacy very much. We have the spy tools but they have a real work ethic and therefore are far too lazy to look up private info.
  - thebean11 6y ago
    I'm not sure anyone's claiming that any attempt to measure usage is spying. We're not talking about metrics like "the technology org created 452 documents and spent 9h47m reading them". We're talking about "Sally spent 4m52s looking at the doc Tom wrote". Big difference.
    - SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
      The page linked just says stuff like "50% of users installed the mobile app"
  - giantDinosaur 6y ago
    What about a culture where honesty is instilled and you can have frank discussions about what works, and what does not, directly with your employees?
  - syshum 6y ago
    Seems like you have a reverse purchasing problem... i.e you are buying solutions in search of problems to solve, instead identifying a problems, then purchasing a solution If you identified the problem first, then you would know of the solution fixed the problem because it would no longer be a problem
- jodrellblank 6y ago
  > "Imagine if it was discovered that Bell, or Motorolla, or Cisco installed taps on business phones in the 80s and 90s to see which "productivity features" were being used, or for "reporting" -- it would make national headlines and businesses would be up in arms." I seem to remember that phone bills were a thing in the 80s and 90s, an itemised list of every number you called, when, how long you spent on the call, logs of every incoming and outgoing call on an entire system, used for reporting. Possibly judging sales people on call volumes and engagement metrics? Judging customer support people on time to close calls? And no national headline outcry. No? Wasn't that a thing?
  - raddy 6y ago
    What about call centers - Don't they also have metrics about phone calls such as call time, hold time etc? How is this any different?
  - hyperdimension 6y ago
    Yeah, I remember at least one report coming out after the (first? Maybe the 3G?) iphone came out of people receiving thousand-page bills that had to be sent in boxes because they detailed every data connection, back when they nickel-and-dimed you, either by time spent connected or by the kB. It definitely seems absurd now in the midst of XX GB plans! (They just found different ways of charging you in silly ways, seemingly.)
fudged71 6y ago
I agree that may be the purpose that it was designed. And I also see value in removing useless meetings for employees and giving them extra focus time. The problem is how individual managers might use these analytics for nefarious purposes.

dimitrios1 6y ago

Not to pick on you here, but to me, this is case and point of the type of "privacy rot" we have allowed to settle in the psyche of American minds. Imagine if it was discovered that Bell, or Motorolla, or Cisco installed taps on business phones in the 80s and 90s to see which "productivity features" were being used, or for "reporting" -- it would make national headlines and businesses would be up in arms. To me this is the worst side effect of the modern internet we have built, where data is being mined and pumped into every orifice available: we've lost a sense of what our privacy is truly worth. Thankfully, this latest generation is starting to lash out against it.

philipodonnell 6y ago
Its a fair point, just a bit of a tough spot to put IT in, you know? If I buy a tool for my employees to use I want to know if they are using it to see if I am getting my money's worth. How would I do that if any attempt to measure usage, not matter how high level, is "spying"?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Grimm665 6y ago
  Maybe talk to them?
- user9372829 6y ago
  Please, ask him
- yodelshady 6y ago
  How could I establish if my employees, aka human beings with a brain and set of vocal chords or functional equivalent, use a given tool? I know what you mean but if that's satire, it's excellent.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  Seriously? Ask them if they use it and what they think about it. I am so lucky that our IT actually values privacy very much. We have the spy tools but they have a real work ethic and therefore are far too lazy to look up private info.
- thebean11 6y ago
  I'm not sure anyone's claiming that any attempt to measure usage is spying. We're not talking about metrics like "the technology org created 452 documents and spent 9h47m reading them". We're talking about "Sally spent 4m52s looking at the doc Tom wrote". Big difference.
  - SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
    The page linked just says stuff like "50% of users installed the mobile app"
- giantDinosaur 6y ago
  What about a culture where honesty is instilled and you can have frank discussions about what works, and what does not, directly with your employees?
- syshum 6y ago
  Seems like you have a reverse purchasing problem... i.e you are buying solutions in search of problems to solve, instead identifying a problems, then purchasing a solution If you identified the problem first, then you would know of the solution fixed the problem because it would no longer be a problem
jodrellblank 6y ago
> "Imagine if it was discovered that Bell, or Motorolla, or Cisco installed taps on business phones in the 80s and 90s to see which "productivity features" were being used, or for "reporting" -- it would make national headlines and businesses would be up in arms." I seem to remember that phone bills were a thing in the 80s and 90s, an itemised list of every number you called, when, how long you spent on the call, logs of every incoming and outgoing call on an entire system, used for reporting. Possibly judging sales people on call volumes and engagement metrics? Judging customer support people on time to close calls? And no national headline outcry. No? Wasn't that a thing?
- raddy 6y ago
  What about call centers - Don't they also have metrics about phone calls such as call time, hold time etc? How is this any different?
- hyperdimension 6y ago
  Yeah, I remember at least one report coming out after the (first? Maybe the 3G?) iphone came out of people receiving thousand-page bills that had to be sent in boxes because they detailed every data connection, back when they nickel-and-dimed you, either by time spent connected or by the kB. It definitely seems absurd now in the midst of XX GB plans! (They just found different ways of charging you in silly ways, seemingly.)

fudged71 6y ago

I agree that may be the purpose that it was designed. And I also see value in removing useless meetings for employees and giving them extra focus time. The problem is how individual managers might use these analytics for nefarious purposes.