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I wonder how long it will be until every country just has its own segregated internet. Will it happen on its own for economic reasons or will it take a real war

I wonder how long it will be until every country just has its own segregated internet. Will it happen on its own for economic reasons or will it take a real war that involves massive hacking attacks from both sides?

abecedarius 6y ago
Please don't frame a political thing as inevitable, unless you want to contribute to it happening or persisting. "I wonder if every country will... how long might that take?" avoids that problem. Yes, I'm quibbling about words. In politics words aren't separate from reality.
- ihaveajob 6y ago
  I don't get the downvotes. This is a perfectly logical position. Looking back, the fall of the Berlin wall may seem predictable, but who would have forecast it in 1988?
  - abecedarius 6y ago
    Yes, I remember the 80s, and the USSR was one of those things you just assumed would be around for the foreseeable future, like marijuana prohibition (though for that one there was more of an inkling of possibility given more time). What you can say "within reason" depends on what you think everyone else thinks you can say, so equilibria are both really stable and subject to surprising flips when they finally tip over -- sort of like digital logic.
- swirepe 6y ago
  I wonder what we can do to prevent a segregated internet?
  - cookieswumchorr 6y ago
    on small scale, consistently ignore and boycott all attempts by governments to do so. They are not allmighty, they cannot place an armed cop behind every single citicen. If you are in a country that has some functioning democratic institutions, you may also try using them
    - kazagistar 6y ago
      Also, work to increase the democraticness of institutions in your country so that it may be changed in the future, and work to change people's thoughts on matters so they grow the will to change things.
t_minus_3 6y ago
It all started with great firewall of china, didn't it ? The segregation of internet for political purposes has been there for number of years. (aka. china blocks FB,Google and wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma... ). rest of the world is catching up to their playbook
- AntiImperialist 6y ago
  Agree! In these games, you only need one player who plays foul and the rules have to be changed for everyone. Having said that, The Great Firewall is the best thing CCP has done to protect itself, by a long shot. Had it not done so, China would be, at best, full of riots and uprisings and protests everywhere as foreign interests mobilized locals to act against the CCP using anti-CCP propaganda in their social media.
  - ericjang 6y ago
    are you sure that would happen? Make no mistake, I get that Western powers do have cultural and economic agendas (McDonald republics and such). But if you look at Japan and South Korea, they didn't really have significant protests or any "installed leaders".
    - AntiImperialist 6y ago
      Japan has had installed leaders since the WWII. The occupying army is still there. South Korea has had installed leaders since the Korean War.
      - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
        Hah what? The US hated Shinzo Abe for the longest damn time, didn't stop him from being re-elected multiple times. Also, its not appropriate to call the forces still in Japan an "occupying army". There is a joint forces treaty in place, and Japan has multiple times refused to amend Article 9 of their constitution In South Korea, they've deposed the previous President. Seems like the US is doing a bad job installing leaders there.
indie_india_dev 6y ago
This move is to counter Chinese apps which pump user data and other sensitive information to their government.
- nomoreusernames 6y ago
  india has a lot of muslims, and muslims are not happy with the ummah being put into concentration camps. seems logical that a country with one of the largest muslim populations in the world, in the largest democracy in the world would start protesting against china.
  - indie_india_dev 6y ago
    This move is less about muslims and more about countering china's recent aggression in the border as pointed out in other comment. Chinese are occupying sizable Indian land since the pandemic broke and has been involved in unprovoked aggression in the border. This move is more of a soft ball approach to counter those aggression.
  - valarauko 6y ago
    While this may be the case, the Indian government was happy to turn a blind eye to the situation in Xinjiang till recently, when relations with China were good. Now that relations have soured, India is keen to highlight every stain on China's record.
nomoreusernames 6y ago
i wonder how long it will take until humanity dies out due to our stupidity. i think the chances for that are much larger than the chances for a segregated internet. i mean worst case we can setup our own internet. all you need is somebody with a lot of money and also willing to create a fully transparent system. imagine not even needing top domains. thatwouldbeamazing.
samoa42 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCION_(Internet_architecture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCION_(Internet_architecture) its alive an kicking already

abecedarius 6y ago

Please don't frame a political thing as inevitable, unless you want to contribute to it happening or persisting. "I wonder if every country will... how long might that take?" avoids that problem. Yes, I'm quibbling about words. In politics words aren't separate from reality.

ihaveajob 6y ago
I don't get the downvotes. This is a perfectly logical position. Looking back, the fall of the Berlin wall may seem predictable, but who would have forecast it in 1988?
- abecedarius 6y ago
  Yes, I remember the 80s, and the USSR was one of those things you just assumed would be around for the foreseeable future, like marijuana prohibition (though for that one there was more of an inkling of possibility given more time). What you can say "within reason" depends on what you think everyone else thinks you can say, so equilibria are both really stable and subject to surprising flips when they finally tip over -- sort of like digital logic.
swirepe 6y ago
I wonder what we can do to prevent a segregated internet?
- cookieswumchorr 6y ago
  on small scale, consistently ignore and boycott all attempts by governments to do so. They are not allmighty, they cannot place an armed cop behind every single citicen. If you are in a country that has some functioning democratic institutions, you may also try using them
  - kazagistar 6y ago
    Also, work to increase the democraticness of institutions in your country so that it may be changed in the future, and work to change people's thoughts on matters so they grow the will to change things.

t_minus_3 6y ago

It all started with great firewall of china, didn't it ? The segregation of internet for political purposes has been there for number of years. (aka. china blocks FB,Google and wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma... ). rest of the world is catching up to their playbook

AntiImperialist 6y ago
Agree! In these games, you only need one player who plays foul and the rules have to be changed for everyone. Having said that, The Great Firewall is the best thing CCP has done to protect itself, by a long shot. Had it not done so, China would be, at best, full of riots and uprisings and protests everywhere as foreign interests mobilized locals to act against the CCP using anti-CCP propaganda in their social media.
- ericjang 6y ago
  are you sure that would happen? Make no mistake, I get that Western powers do have cultural and economic agendas (McDonald republics and such). But if you look at Japan and South Korea, they didn't really have significant protests or any "installed leaders".
  - AntiImperialist 6y ago
    Japan has had installed leaders since the WWII. The occupying army is still there. South Korea has had installed leaders since the Korean War.
    - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
      Hah what? The US hated Shinzo Abe for the longest damn time, didn't stop him from being re-elected multiple times. Also, its not appropriate to call the forces still in Japan an "occupying army". There is a joint forces treaty in place, and Japan has multiple times refused to amend Article 9 of their constitution In South Korea, they've deposed the previous President. Seems like the US is doing a bad job installing leaders there.

indie_india_dev 6y ago

This move is to counter Chinese apps which pump user data and other sensitive information to their government.

nomoreusernames 6y ago
india has a lot of muslims, and muslims are not happy with the ummah being put into concentration camps. seems logical that a country with one of the largest muslim populations in the world, in the largest democracy in the world would start protesting against china.
- indie_india_dev 6y ago
  This move is less about muslims and more about countering china's recent aggression in the border as pointed out in other comment. Chinese are occupying sizable Indian land since the pandemic broke and has been involved in unprovoked aggression in the border. This move is more of a soft ball approach to counter those aggression.
- valarauko 6y ago
  While this may be the case, the Indian government was happy to turn a blind eye to the situation in Xinjiang till recently, when relations with China were good. Now that relations have soured, India is keen to highlight every stain on China's record.

nomoreusernames 6y ago

i wonder how long it will take until humanity dies out due to our stupidity. i think the chances for that are much larger than the chances for a segregated internet. i mean worst case we can setup our own internet. all you need is somebody with a lot of money and also willing to create a fully transparent system. imagine not even needing top domains. thatwouldbeamazing.

samoa42 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCION_(Internet_architecture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCION_(Internet_architecture) its alive an kicking already