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Charles Darwin notebooks lost and assumed stolen
- CGamesPlay 6y ago> The notebooks were last seen in November 2000... It was only during "a routine check" two months later that it was discovered they were missing. Why on earth is this just getting published now? The article reads like the library just found out they were missing.
- Deukhoofd 6y ago> Initially librarians thought they might have been put back in the wrong place. "My predecessors genuinely believed they had been misfiled and they would find them," adds Dr Gardner, who became director of library services in 2017. > There were a number of "intense" searches over the years. They all drew a blank. So they knew they were missing, they just thought they were misplaced for 20 years.
- ThePhysicist 6y agoPlease fully read the article: Until circa 2017 the administration thought the notebooks were merely misplaced. As it's a tremendously large library that wasn't so difficult to believe, and numerous searches have been conducted over the years to locate the notebooks. Only after a change of management they investigated the circumstances of the disappearing of the books more closely and came to the conclusion that it's more likely they were stolen.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Xelbair 6y agoConfirming that something was lost in a small sized archive, and not just misplaced was hard. I cannot imagine how much harder it must be for such grand one.
- globular-toast 6y agoIt seems really odd to me to say they are "worth many millions of pounds". Are there really people out there willing to make a sacrifice of many millions just to own these notebooks? And does that mean they were on the market all along? I find that really difficult to believe. We used to say things like this are priceless.
- yitchelle 6y agoI guess it is the same scenario with art pieces or similar products. EG, the Leonardo Da Vinci painting Salvator Mundi was sold for $450M back in 2017, where is the justification for this pricing?
- globular-toast 6y agoI don't know. I don't know why I'm being downvoted either. It seems really fascinating. Is it an investment? A storage of wealth? Or did someone really decide they wanted that painting in their life instead of a brand new Boeing 747, for example? It's obviously not really worth that much, so what's it all about? Inflation is mainly due to money being creamed off into the hands of rich people, but all they are getting for it is a painting? I guess once your belly is full every day and your living environment is no less than 21 degrees at all times it really just becomes a game. None of us have more than 24 hours in a single day.
- Xophmeister 6y agoAn item's market value is effectively defined by how much someone is willing to pay for it, rather than the material sum of its parts.
- pbhjpbhj 6y agoWell, also an item can be a token. I gather that high-value art is used by criminals as if it were large value currency. A piece of artwork works as a $100M-note and the art aspect legitimises the value. I'd guess it's a route for laundering too.
- als0 6y agoThe title should reflect the BBC's title "lost for 20 years"
- OJFord 6y agoThe BBC frequently uses different titles in different places (home page, section page, article itself) and also changes them - the submission's title may well have reflected one of them at the time.
- Tomte 6y agoAlso the <title> tag is often different from the readable title in <h1> (the HN bookmarklet picks up the title tag). And that's throughout many news organizations. CNN does that all the time.
- MaxBarraclough 6y agoSomewhat related to this, the BBC have an annoying habit of using a photo in a thumbnail for an article, and not providing the full-size photo anywhere.
- MrRoadroller 6y agoJust to let you know this may be due to the license for that image. They may have just bought the thumbnail size license. If you want find the full size image, it may be on one of the image archives (eg. Getty, PA images etc).
- MaxBarraclough 6y agoThen I wish they'd just use a thumbnail of one of the images they use at full size in the article.
- konschubert 6y agoWho steals this stuff? If you want them because you care about enlightenment, wouldn't you also want them to be publicly accessible?
- ThePhysicist 6y agoApparently there are a lot of high net-worth individuals that take pleasure in acquiring such cultural goods to hang them in their private studies or re-sell them. The Nebra Sky Disk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk) was e.g. excavated by two "tomb raiders" who sold it on the black market, and only after the disk changed hands multiple times it was re-acquired by the federal government in a sting police operation (luckily). It makes me sad to think about all the artifacts of e.g. the Byzantine and Babylonian cultures that were stolen during the recents wars in the middle east, most of it probably made it into the hands of wealthy collectors. At least we can hope that some of the stuff will turn up again, eventually, but since most people don't know how to properly keep these artefacts from decaying there's still a tremendous risk they will be permanently damaged.
- bserge 6y agoSounds straight out of the movies. Black market for ancient/cultural artifacts that provide no practical benefits whatsoever to someone's life. Fascinating.
- dagw 6y agoprovide no practical benefits whatsoever to someone's life. I guess it provides status and bragging rights within your social circle. When you and all your friends are rich enough to be able to buy basically anything that is legally for sale, owning stuff that your neighbor cannot also just go out and buy becomes the only interesting type of purchase left to make.
- toyg 6y ago> no practical benefits ... except being a tax-free investment that will likely hold value forever (because it’s effectively unique) and is often easier to secure than more typical assets (because it’s hard to resell without very specific contacts).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- webmobdev 6y agoHopefully it was all scanned and digitized?
- twelvechairs 6y agoAnd made freely available with a permissive licence
- ajnin 6y agoI don't know why you're being downvoted. Libraries scanning old books and applying a new copyright on them (which shouldn't be possible, scans are not a creative act) is a common issue.
- rob74 6y agoThat was the first questions in my mind too... of course the physical notebooks are also valuable, but the information contained within is the thing that's actually important for historians etc. Thankfully the question also occured to the BBC reporters: > Although the notebooks have been digitised, Professor Secord says the scans can never replace the real thing.
- interestica 6y agoThe 2 digitized notebooks are available: [1] https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-DAR-00121/1 https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-DAR-00121/1 [2] https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-DAR-00122/1 https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-DAR-00122/1
- LatteLazy 6y agoLost/theft is inevitable. Lying about it for 2 decades isn't.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- spuz 6y agoNowhere in the article does it suggest that anyone lied about the books.
- breakfastduck 6y agoIt doesn’t need to. Pretty clear from reading it that no one wanted to admit they’d been stolen on their watch, so they kept up some kind of pretence of it being lost within the library so they wouldn’t be public hounded for being responsible for its loss.
- tokai 6y agoThat's all in your head. It's pretty clear that the library was aware that the books were missing, and that they looked for them. What do you want to happen when unique documents disappear? Call the cops? International press conference? I assure you that professional pride is much more important for these people than being 'hounded' by the public. While there is a good chance that it was been stolen, it could still turn up . Things can go missing for, literally, centuries in collections that are big enough.
- breakfastduck 6y agoThey clearly lied to protect their professional pride. And I think calling these ‘unique documents’ is fairly undervaluing. It’s pretty clear the people in charge now recognise they should have been reported stolen straight away.
- wh1t3n01s3 6y agoI strongly disagree. They lied to themselves and to the world believing the notebooks have been misplaced and not stolen. The ‘no lie’ approach is clearly a part of the problem.
- mensetmanusman 6y agoNewton’s notebooks have been digitized nicely: https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-03996/55 https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-03996/55 As a research scientist, one thing that has definitely changed since the passage of FTF [0] in 2013 is the loss of a singular notebook of ideas and thoughts. Most everything is digital now, and ideas are exchanged through dozens of media which don’t facilitate easy recording to a single physical source. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_to_file_and_first_to_invent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_to_file_and_first_to_i...
- emmelaich 6y agoEverything should be digitised; if Google is willing to do it for free, let them.
- tokai 6y agoAll academic research libraries of proper size have been digitizing for decades. Cambridge University Library is no exception https://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/departments/digital-content-unit https://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/departments/digital-co...
- mhh__ 6y agoI really want to do this, i.e. document basically everything I know for the rest of my life but I genuinely can't bring myself to have the attention span to stick to it. Maybe it's the way the computer effects one's brain (I'm relatively convinced I have ADHD to at least some degree too). At very least procrastination-orbiting around that task has meant that I have a fairly functional set of scripts for blogging in LaTeX i.e. integrating the mathematics and diagrams properly is hard. I'd never admit it in person but I'd actually love to have an ASMR channel to non-verbally ramble about the sheer volume of pointless information I have in my head.
- tomcatfish 6y agoThis isn't an ad, I'm not affiliated with the program. I recently tried https://obsidian.md https://obsidian.md and found it really helped me overcome my laziness and take notes down. Another thing I have found that helps is to just make the note and deal with organization later. I started by making several unconnected notes, but they quickly grow into small graphs. IMPORTANT WARNING: This is not FOSS and has a weird licensing model. You don't have to worry about this too much since it just makes markdown files which are easy to move between different note programs. If they do not open-source it, I am feeling fairly optimistic on making my own (if no one beats me to it, in which case I would just want to contribute to theirs).
- tokai 6y agoIf the thefts from the Royal Library, in Denmark, is anything to go by, I would look into past librarians. Especially those that have retired. https://www.liberquarterly.eu/articles/10.18352/lq.7874/ https://www.liberquarterly.eu/articles/10.18352/lq.7874/
- comprev 6y agoVery interesting read
- jsnell 6y agoYes, that's unfortunately a well-established pattern :( https://www.capcollections.org.uk/news_events/foxes-in-hen-houses-the-theft-of-rare-books-from-national-libraries/ https://www.capcollections.org.uk/news_events/foxes-in-hen-h...
- Cactus2018 6y agohttps://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/theft-carnegie-library-books-maps-artworks-180975506/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/theft-carnegie-l...
- patagurbon 6y agoIs there any news on what percent of the collection has been recovered? What a sickening crime...
- momento 6y agoA great read. Too bad the images no longer load on the page. I would love to see what these books looked like.
- tokai 6y agoThe pdf still has the images. Here's the direct link. www.liberquarterly.eu/articles/10.18352/lq.7874/galley/8079/download/
- toyg 6y agoI’m probably a cynic, but I have to wonder if this admission is somehow linked to the inevitable issues with funding because of Covid19, i.e. Cambridge might be trying to get something out of their insurers.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoThey could try, but given it's been 20 years ago and apparently they never reported it, slim chance at that.
- christudor 6y agoIt might be because yesterday was the anniversary of the first publication of On the Origin of Species (first published 24 November 1859) so people looking for Darwin-related news?
- jpkotyla 6y agoThis is a bit reminiscent of the "This American Life" episode, wherein precious evolutionary science bird feathers make their way into fishing flies. It's a really great story. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/654/the-feather-heist https://www.thisamericanlife.org/654/the-feather-heist
- mpl 6y ago"The Feather Thief" by Kirk Wallace Johnson is the book that piece is about. It's a much more thrilling and fascinating read than you might expect. Absolutely worth a read/listen!
- interestica 6y agoLuckily: "The two Darwin notebooks had previously been digitised and their content is available online." . University of Cambridge has a bit more on their "appeal" site (https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/DarwinAppeal https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/DarwinAppeal) The digitized notebooks are available: [1] https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-DAR-00121/1 https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-DAR-00121/1 [2] https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-DAR-00122/1 https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-DAR-00122/1 Also, yesterday was the anniversary of the release of On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life on November 24, 1859. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species
- falsaberN1 6y agoThis is good to hear, and a reminder of how important it is to keep backups of everything.
- antpls 6y agoI believe it is important to keep the physical version at a safe place for as long as possible. How long before a new wave of "flat earthers" decides the digital version is just a deep fake and it never existed?
- gentleman11 6y agoI suspect 10-20 years ago?
- romwell 6y agoThey'll say the physical version is a fake too. Though I say for really important works, having a physical copy in addition to the digital one is a must. Digital data is easy to copy — and easy to lose. And bit rot is a thing.
- ystad 6y agowell it is important, that the digitized version can be traced back to the original.
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoI love how the Cambridge Library took 20 years to be sure they hadn't been mis-shelved.
- mannykannot 6y agoIf Dr. Gardner, who became director of library services in 2017, had continued with the self-serving rationalizations of her predecessors, she would have herself come to 'own' the problem, by becoming a party to the dissembling. So, I guess she instituted a thorough search, and when it failed, announced the fact.
- pelasaco 6y agodisturbing that when I read "20 years ago", I first thought "wow, they stole it in 1970", then I read "The notebooks were last seen in November 2000.." then the penny suddenly dropped
- minitoar 6y agoSomething about this year finally caused me to internalize that it is 2020.
- angry_octet 6y agoBRB checking my portrait in the attic.
- selimthegrim 6y agoDoes it still look young and human?
- pelasaco 6y agoprobably.. from our grandkids? not sure.
- pelasaco 6y agodon't forget your glasses...
- helsinkiandrew 6y agoI wonder if a 'google streetview' like system could be used to find library books that have been misfiled. A robot drives around the shelves taking photos of the books on the shelves, those are then matched to what is expected to be found in that section, obviously there will be some without names or labels on the spines - but hopefully not many. But it can atleast say there are 4 unknown books and 3 unaccounted for in a section. Obviously that won't help in this case when delicate artifacts are in boxes.
- Threeve303 6y agoIf anyone gets around to making this I suggest calling the robot Dewey.
- pbhjpbhj 6y agoI think it should be Uncle Donald, as it's trying to catch a particular Dewey!
- UShouldBWorking 6y agoIn this case it seems that (devistatingly) they knew they were lost 20 years ago and just kept quiet about it.
- acomjean 6y agoThey do this is some parking garages. Especially long term (airports) something drives around and reads all the license plates. Easier than books but same idea.
- crazygringo 6y agoI'm curious if there have been any tech advances in tracking valuable objects in like rare books, sketches, paintings, etc. that are currently actually used by institutions or considered a best practice. Whether it's RFID chips, Bluetooth tags, security cameras that do "book recognition", or something else. Heck, even something as simple as a barcode per object, shelf, cart and holding area, and you've got to scan them in and out every time it's picked up and put down (tied to your ID), and the whole system beeps with loud errors if it isn't scanned in somewhere within 30 seconds of being scanned out. The idea that a multimillion dollar object could be "misplaced" or lost in a large collection feels appropriate to the year 1980, but by 2020 it feels positively anachronistic. (I realize this happened in 2000, so I'm wondering what prevents it today.)
- dialamac 6y agoLol you’ve never stolen a book from the library before either intentionally or not? This should be pretty straightforward but the more valuable something is the more incentive there is to steal it. Meanwhile, while you can throw more money at physical security and scale it up, technology hasn’t changed much in 50 years let alone 20 - you hire enough people at considerable expense and implement good basic security systems. This costs money and stupid tech like “slap an rfid tag on it” doesn’t change anything
- crazygringo 6y agoHa, when I was younger some libraries would have security tags but they didn't have ID's for tracking, they'd just set off an alarm. But from reponses and doing a bit more research, it sounds like RFID tags have really taken off since then for tracking.
- ericlewis 6y agoMy question to this solution would be: do you have to modify the book in some way? Would we want to potentially ruin a book to do that? If the solution is easily removable then does it help? We should digitize as much as possible and background check the heck out of librarians it seems to me.
- Dumblydorr 6y agoAm I right in thinking they lost them for 20 years but were only certain this week? Or did they only report it this week?
- jgwil2 6y ago> They were taken to a temporary studio, which at the time was in a temporary building in the grounds of the university library because building work was taking place. Given how small and inconspicuous they are, is it possible they simply got thrown away in the midst of the construction? Perhaps when the temporary building was disassembled?
- TwoBit 6y agoI seriously wonder what their security policies were and how seriously they took the chain of posession. Something that valuable probably shouldn't even be allowed out of sight.
- JackFr 6y agoI hope no one tries the same thing with Marie Curie's notebooks. https://www.sciencealert.com/these-personal-effects-of-marie-curie-will-be-radioactive-for-another-1-500-years https://www.sciencealert.com/these-personal-effects-of-marie...
- threesquared 6y agoIf anyone else was interested there is a virtual tour of the Cambridge Library Storage Facility https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH_rmdeTCWY&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH_rmdeTCWY&feature=youtu.be