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California has the most stringent gun laws but also the a lowest gun violence death rate per capita. More people were allowed to pursue the "life" option in th

by iaw 6y ago

California has the most stringent gun laws but also the a lowest gun violence death rate per capita. More people were allowed to pursue the "life" option in the Declaration of Independence. The first item of unalienable rights our forefathers stated all people had. What do you do when two rights directly infringe upon eachother?

zests 6y ago
The lowest? I checked wikipedia and was able to find that Arizona had a 30% lower rate in 2016 and is a "shall issue" state.
- iaw 6y ago
  2013 rates age adjusted[0], Arizona had a higher per capita death rate at 14.1 vs 7.7 with California. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni...
  - zests 6y ago
    I found those age adjusted rates some time after I posted. It strikes me as odd. I'm sure if we adjust by enough rates we can come to whatever conclusion we want. What if we adjusted for gang prevalence and suicide rate as well?
nradov 6y ago
California has the 7th lowest gun death rate. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/... California is 23rd in homicide rate. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality...
- iaw 6y ago
  26th in homicide according to wikipedia [0] but what is your point? The 'typical' murder involves people that know each other and has a motive. Loose firearm regulations enable mass shootings [1][2] which are more indiscriminate. Everyone has the right to bear arms but what do we do when that infringes on other peoples right to life? I think it's a cogent question. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicid... [1] https://www.wired.com/story/the-looser-a-states-gun-laws-the-more-mass-shootings-it-has/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-looser-a-states-gun-laws-the... [2] https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l542 https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l542
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    >the 'typical' murder involves people that know each other and has a motive. Loose firearm regulations enable mass shootings [1][2] which are more indiscriminate. Mass shootings are a rounding errors and should not be used to motivate public policy. Catering to asinine edge cases like that is why we all have to take off our shoes when we fly. If you want people to murder each other less then you need to reduce the size of the illegal economy (mostly drug trafficking) so that those industries can settle their disputes with contracts and court orders instead of violence. Basically everything else pales in comparison to that type of violence.
  - baryphonic 6y ago
    > Everyone has the right to bear arms but what do we do when that infringes on other peoples right to life? I think it's a cogent question. Clearly the state has laws against murder. And California even has laws that "enhance" sentencing criteria for anyone guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a felony.[1] Also, "mass shootings" are also illegal and are incredibly rare. Also, I have a right to "property"/"pursuit of happiness" (per Fifth Amendment and the Declaration of Independence). In the Bay Area, if I leave my laptop in my trunk, it'll be stolen. If you leave CA (or at least the Bay Area) and visit a state with slightly looser restrictions, laptops can peacefully spend a dinner in the trunk without being stolen. I have to imagine that criminals who know they have very little to fear from armed ordinary citizens are emboldened by the restrictions on firearm ownership. By the logic above, the correlation (note: I have no data other than the ubiquitous "BRING YOUR LAPTOP INSIDE!!!" signs all over the place in the Bay Area) must mean that the state is neglecting a right to property, therefore the fun restrictions should be relaxed. Or maybe using aggregate statistics and correlations isn't the best approach to analyzing legal-political issues in the absence of a very strong signal. [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=12022.5 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
madengr 6y ago
What do you have to say about Chicago?

by iaw 6y ago

zests 6y ago

The lowest? I checked wikipedia and was able to find that Arizona had a 30% lower rate in 2016 and is a "shall issue" state.

iaw 6y ago
2013 rates age adjusted[0], Arizona had a higher per capita death rate at 14.1 vs 7.7 with California. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni...
- zests 6y ago
  I found those age adjusted rates some time after I posted. It strikes me as odd. I'm sure if we adjust by enough rates we can come to whatever conclusion we want. What if we adjusted for gang prevalence and suicide rate as well?

nradov 6y ago

California has the 7th lowest gun death rate. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/... California is 23rd in homicide rate. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality...

iaw 6y ago
26th in homicide according to wikipedia [0] but what is your point? The 'typical' murder involves people that know each other and has a motive. Loose firearm regulations enable mass shootings [1][2] which are more indiscriminate. Everyone has the right to bear arms but what do we do when that infringes on other peoples right to life? I think it's a cogent question. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicid... [1] https://www.wired.com/story/the-looser-a-states-gun-laws-the-more-mass-shootings-it-has/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-looser-a-states-gun-laws-the... [2] https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l542 https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l542
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >the 'typical' murder involves people that know each other and has a motive. Loose firearm regulations enable mass shootings [1][2] which are more indiscriminate. Mass shootings are a rounding errors and should not be used to motivate public policy. Catering to asinine edge cases like that is why we all have to take off our shoes when we fly. If you want people to murder each other less then you need to reduce the size of the illegal economy (mostly drug trafficking) so that those industries can settle their disputes with contracts and court orders instead of violence. Basically everything else pales in comparison to that type of violence.
- baryphonic 6y ago
  > Everyone has the right to bear arms but what do we do when that infringes on other peoples right to life? I think it's a cogent question. Clearly the state has laws against murder. And California even has laws that "enhance" sentencing criteria for anyone guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a felony.[1] Also, "mass shootings" are also illegal and are incredibly rare. Also, I have a right to "property"/"pursuit of happiness" (per Fifth Amendment and the Declaration of Independence). In the Bay Area, if I leave my laptop in my trunk, it'll be stolen. If you leave CA (or at least the Bay Area) and visit a state with slightly looser restrictions, laptops can peacefully spend a dinner in the trunk without being stolen. I have to imagine that criminals who know they have very little to fear from armed ordinary citizens are emboldened by the restrictions on firearm ownership. By the logic above, the correlation (note: I have no data other than the ubiquitous "BRING YOUR LAPTOP INSIDE!!!" signs all over the place in the Bay Area) must mean that the state is neglecting a right to property, therefore the fun restrictions should be relaxed. Or maybe using aggregate statistics and correlations isn't the best approach to analyzing legal-political issues in the absence of a very strong signal. [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=12022.5 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

madengr 6y ago

What do you have to say about Chicago?