3 ms·

A couple of years ago I was on a flight from Paris to Newark. Having had left Ireland behind us already (after maybe 2 hours of flight time), the pilot told us

by w-m 6y ago

A couple of years ago I was on a flight from Paris to Newark. Having had left Ireland behind us already (after maybe 2 hours of flight time), the pilot told us that the air condition in the crew rest wasn't working, so the crew was unable to get proper sleep. Unable to fix it in flight, but not an outright emergency, they had to turn around and we went right back to Paris. That's how I learned about this magical place's existence, and that you aren't allowed to make a 8.5h flight when it's broken, even if the rest of the plane is perfectly fine.

Scoundreller 6y ago
I wonder if that’s a sanitized version of the story that’s more like: “we wouldn’t be able to takeoff again without this getting fixed and we don’t have a maintenance base in Newark, so we’ll just go back and hope nobody files for compensation.”
- xwdv 6y ago
  I would immediately spend the next 2 hours flying back figuring out how to file for compensation, and maybe helping others on board go through the process as well.
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    That’s the thing, if they paint it as something non-controllable, you may think you can’t get compensation. Or you’ll get stone-walled in trying to figure out the real reason.
  - w-m 6y ago
    In this case there was plenty time to consider how to apply for compensation: in the 2 hours flying back the way we came, in the hour waiting for the luggage, in the three hours in the line with the other passengers to be booked on another flight, in the hour in the airport shuttle going to the hotel for the night, and another going back to the airport the next morning, in the two hours in the queue for the re-check-in. Also in the two hours in the plane the next day til the turnaround point, hoping to make it a bit further this time around. Turns out, if you dump a plane with 350 people suddenly onto the three customer service people serving at CDG for United, it becomes quite the shit show. I doubt any of the crew would have preferred this option over continuing to fly to Newark as intended, if they were remotely friendly with the ground crew, or had to serve there themselves. Fun part was the passengers for other flights walking into the terminal and gazing at the queue of 350 people wrapping around one of these giant blocks at CDG, in wonder. Mood of the people in the queue was not that of the highest enjoyment, though.
    - glangdale 6y ago
      If my experience with multiple different "oh, sorry, no flight tonight" is anything to go by the ground staff are always completely unprepared for the process of putting people into a hotel. It's as if nothing like this has happened before in the entire history of the airline. You'll have a massive queue with some harried staff member hastily scanning the 3-ring binder seemingly trying to reinvent the process from first principles. The whole process seems to kick off when the first passenger hits the counter, too - not, say, when the airline first knows that this situation is inevitable. I think they are always hoping for a miraculous save ("It turns out half the passengers have old friends in the city they want to overnight with, and the other half got on to other flights with 10 minutes notice, hooray!").
      - xwdv 6y ago
        Or maybe more selfishly, hoping their shift will end and they can go home before the plane gets back. I worked at a company that had this kind of situation once. The product was in shambles, but the shit hadn’t really hit the fan yet. I didn’t want to deal with it, so I did the minimum, collected my paycheck, dodged the issues as much as I could, and finally got out just in time. Literally it felt like the entire building was detonating behind me in a massive explosion as I put on my sunglasses and walked to my car for the last time. Did not look back. Lived to code another day.
- hammock 6y ago
  Of course you can get compensation (if you ask), and the crew doesn't care either way - it's not like it comes out of a bonus they would have gotten or something. Flying is not a comfortable job and if passengers expect a/c on a flight I think it's reasonable for the crew to expect it from their employer as well.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    The pilot has to follow corporate policy though. (Not continuing to Newark is not a safety issue.) I've been in the same situation, and the first officer said as much to us. "Sorry, this is EasyJet, so we fly back to Gatwick where we have our spare plane and maintenance people. BA would have a spare pilot and a spare plane, and would fly that out with the spare parts and maintenance people to meet this one."
    - koyote 6y ago
      Hah, I remember a BA flight (on which I was thankfully not on) which decided to return back to Heathrow 6 hours into a 12 hour flight to Tokyo for that exact reason. Imagine flying 12 hours in a plane only to be back where you started. https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2016-07-08/british-airways-flight-turns-around-after-almost-12-hours-in-air https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2016-07-08/british-airway...
      - Symbiote 6y ago
        The exception proves the rule, perhaps? EasyJet doing this wouldn't make the news. After the first officer returned to the cockpit, some of the other passengers on my EasyJet flight complained to the cabin crew. They said things like "it will be fine, standard procedures, happens all the time".
janstice 6y ago
I wonder if the real issue is that the crew would exceed their on-duty hours (either for that flight or the return)?

by w-m 6y ago

Scoundreller 6y ago

I wonder if that’s a sanitized version of the story that’s more like: “we wouldn’t be able to takeoff again without this getting fixed and we don’t have a maintenance base in Newark, so we’ll just go back and hope nobody files for compensation.”

xwdv 6y ago
I would immediately spend the next 2 hours flying back figuring out how to file for compensation, and maybe helping others on board go through the process as well.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  That’s the thing, if they paint it as something non-controllable, you may think you can’t get compensation. Or you’ll get stone-walled in trying to figure out the real reason.
- w-m 6y ago
  In this case there was plenty time to consider how to apply for compensation: in the 2 hours flying back the way we came, in the hour waiting for the luggage, in the three hours in the line with the other passengers to be booked on another flight, in the hour in the airport shuttle going to the hotel for the night, and another going back to the airport the next morning, in the two hours in the queue for the re-check-in. Also in the two hours in the plane the next day til the turnaround point, hoping to make it a bit further this time around. Turns out, if you dump a plane with 350 people suddenly onto the three customer service people serving at CDG for United, it becomes quite the shit show. I doubt any of the crew would have preferred this option over continuing to fly to Newark as intended, if they were remotely friendly with the ground crew, or had to serve there themselves. Fun part was the passengers for other flights walking into the terminal and gazing at the queue of 350 people wrapping around one of these giant blocks at CDG, in wonder. Mood of the people in the queue was not that of the highest enjoyment, though.
  - glangdale 6y ago
    If my experience with multiple different "oh, sorry, no flight tonight" is anything to go by the ground staff are always completely unprepared for the process of putting people into a hotel. It's as if nothing like this has happened before in the entire history of the airline. You'll have a massive queue with some harried staff member hastily scanning the 3-ring binder seemingly trying to reinvent the process from first principles. The whole process seems to kick off when the first passenger hits the counter, too - not, say, when the airline first knows that this situation is inevitable. I think they are always hoping for a miraculous save ("It turns out half the passengers have old friends in the city they want to overnight with, and the other half got on to other flights with 10 minutes notice, hooray!").
    - xwdv 6y ago
      Or maybe more selfishly, hoping their shift will end and they can go home before the plane gets back. I worked at a company that had this kind of situation once. The product was in shambles, but the shit hadn’t really hit the fan yet. I didn’t want to deal with it, so I did the minimum, collected my paycheck, dodged the issues as much as I could, and finally got out just in time. Literally it felt like the entire building was detonating behind me in a massive explosion as I put on my sunglasses and walked to my car for the last time. Did not look back. Lived to code another day.
hammock 6y ago
Of course you can get compensation (if you ask), and the crew doesn't care either way - it's not like it comes out of a bonus they would have gotten or something. Flying is not a comfortable job and if passengers expect a/c on a flight I think it's reasonable for the crew to expect it from their employer as well.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  The pilot has to follow corporate policy though. (Not continuing to Newark is not a safety issue.) I've been in the same situation, and the first officer said as much to us. "Sorry, this is EasyJet, so we fly back to Gatwick where we have our spare plane and maintenance people. BA would have a spare pilot and a spare plane, and would fly that out with the spare parts and maintenance people to meet this one."
  - koyote 6y ago
    Hah, I remember a BA flight (on which I was thankfully not on) which decided to return back to Heathrow 6 hours into a 12 hour flight to Tokyo for that exact reason. Imagine flying 12 hours in a plane only to be back where you started. https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2016-07-08/british-airways-flight-turns-around-after-almost-12-hours-in-air https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2016-07-08/british-airway...
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      The exception proves the rule, perhaps? EasyJet doing this wouldn't make the news. After the first officer returned to the cockpit, some of the other passengers on my EasyJet flight complained to the cabin crew. They said things like "it will be fine, standard procedures, happens all the time".

janstice 6y ago

I wonder if the real issue is that the crew would exceed their on-duty hours (either for that flight or the return)?