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What it’s like inside your plane’s hidden ‘crew rest’
- tpmx 6y agoThis cross section image shows the locations of the two rest areas on the 787: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/de/d4/b2ded457430d5313d2234221e1385c30.gif https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/de/d4/b2ded457430d5313d223... (Number 9 and 44.)
- mmcconnell1618 6y agoTaking a look at the front cross section showing "Wing Flex in flight" is interesting. I had no idea the carbon composite wings flexed so much that the wingtips are higher than the main body of the plane during flight.
- jacquesm 6y agoIt's flex or break. The wings hang from the plane body when it is on the ground. But when it is in the air the plane body hangs from the wings. That's a large amount of weight. It also shows you just how much lift those tips generate.
- brunoTbear 6y agoYou can see this in flight. It's pretty obvious if you're sitting near the wing.
- throwaway189262 6y agosometimes I'll get a wing seat to watch them flop around. In turbulence they flex at least a couple feet The emergency exit row is also great for cheap legroom. But sometimes the seats don't recline
- l31g 6y agoYeah, the Dreamliner looks beautiful during takeoff. You see the wingtips slowly, but steadily rise above the plane.
- Ichthypresbyter 6y agoI think on the A340 the crew rest area was actually in the hold, accessed by stairs down from the passenger cabin: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-France/Airbus-A340-3/214327 https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-France/Airbus-A340-3/214... It was integrated into a cargo pallet, so could be removed on planes serving routes where it wasn't needed: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa/Airbus-A340-313/437203 https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa/Airbus-A340-313/43...
- definetheword 6y agothe pallet idea is interesting. I bet it must be really well insulated from the noise!
- netsharc 6y agoI've heard of them having toilets downstairs too, and a quick search confirms this: https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a340-600-cargo-hold-toilets/ https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a340-600-cargo-hold-toilets/ -- although these are permanent fixtures.
- leecb 6y agoLufthansa A340s have the downstairs toilets as well.
- ShakataGaNai 6y agoI just experienced those! In March I was flying MUC->SFO (the day before Trump "closed the borders", lucky timing for me). Due to COVID the plane had been downgraded from an A380 (which I was excited to try out, since I'd never been on one) and instead was a smaller Airbus which was also new to me. First time I went to the bathroom I was totally caught off guard. No idea this was a thing, had never even heard of it. So novel that I took pictures to show my friends when I got back in the ground :-)
- yardie 6y ago
- quelsolaar 6y agoI asked about it on a 787 Flight I had last year and crew member was nice enough to show it to me after the flight. It's very cosy. Unfortunately they have special emergency hatches that you need to be certified to operate, so unless you are certified, there is no chance of ever been able to sleep in one during flight. (I have flown first class, and given the option I would take the crew bunks for sleeping.)
- w-m 6y agoA couple of years ago I was on a flight from Paris to Newark. Having had left Ireland behind us already (after maybe 2 hours of flight time), the pilot told us that the air condition in the crew rest wasn't working, so the crew was unable to get proper sleep. Unable to fix it in flight, but not an outright emergency, they had to turn around and we went right back to Paris. That's how I learned about this magical place's existence, and that you aren't allowed to make a 8.5h flight when it's broken, even if the rest of the plane is perfectly fine.
- Scoundreller 6y agoI wonder if that’s a sanitized version of the story that’s more like: “we wouldn’t be able to takeoff again without this getting fixed and we don’t have a maintenance base in Newark, so we’ll just go back and hope nobody files for compensation.”
- xwdv 6y agoI would immediately spend the next 2 hours flying back figuring out how to file for compensation, and maybe helping others on board go through the process as well.
- Scoundreller 6y agoThat’s the thing, if they paint it as something non-controllable, you may think you can’t get compensation. Or you’ll get stone-walled in trying to figure out the real reason.
- w-m 6y agoIn this case there was plenty time to consider how to apply for compensation: in the 2 hours flying back the way we came, in the hour waiting for the luggage, in the three hours in the line with the other passengers to be booked on another flight, in the hour in the airport shuttle going to the hotel for the night, and another going back to the airport the next morning, in the two hours in the queue for the re-check-in. Also in the two hours in the plane the next day til the turnaround point, hoping to make it a bit further this time around. Turns out, if you dump a plane with 350 people suddenly onto the three customer service people serving at CDG for United, it becomes quite the shit show. I doubt any of the crew would have preferred this option over continuing to fly to Newark as intended, if they were remotely friendly with the ground crew, or had to serve there themselves. Fun part was the passengers for other flights walking into the terminal and gazing at the queue of 350 people wrapping around one of these giant blocks at CDG, in wonder. Mood of the people in the queue was not that of the highest enjoyment, though.
- yardie 6y agoThe 787 just started flying my predominate route (MIA-LHR) right before COVID so I haven't had a chance to fly on it yet. I've been on the 747-400 for years (decades it feels like) and know a little about the cabin crew rest area for that model. Unlike the 787, the 747 crew rest has bunk beds and the flight crew rest is in the cockpit where the old engineer's station used to be (who's been replace by more advanced engine computers). There is usually 2 business class seats reserved for flight crew. I had a memorable flight one Christmas where I was bumped but the captain gave up his rest seat for me (the spouse of one of the working cabin crew). When it comes to airline union contracts any and everything is negotiable, so rest areas and crew seats may simply not exist if things continue the way they are going.
- evgen 6y agoCrew rest areas will always be around because the planes now have a range that exceeds the maximum on call time for a flight crew. For some long-haul routes it is not possible to make the flight on a single crew without breaking various laws and regulations.
- alisonkisk 6y agoBut does a crew rest area have to be anything more than a first class seat?
- iguy 6y agoLooks like many of these occupy less saleable space than business-class seats would. If the plane has space in the roof/cellar, you get 6 beds for the space of a ladder.
- evgen 6y agoI would bet that since these are only for crew they can also put them in places that are more 'unsafe' than general passenger seating. (At least in terms of exit paths and safety regarding getting bumped around during heavy turbulence.)
- nlh 6y agoStory time :) I have a relative who used to work for American, so I had the opportunity to fly on standby for a few years (D2 for anyone who plays the nonrev game). They have reciprocal agreements with a bunch of airlines around the world. I was flying Iberia from Tel Aviv to Madrid once and just barrrrrrrely managed to squeeze on a flight. It was a 6am flight that I assumed would be empty but happened to get overbooked because of another canceled flight, so all those magical empty seats vanished before my eyes. They managed to squeeze me on in one of the flight attendant jump seats - not the one in the cockpit, but the super uncomfortable vertical half-seats at the front of the plane. The only other standby passenger was the husband of one of the flight attendants. Right after we took off, his wife came up to both of us and said “hey it’s 6am, you guys look tired - do you want to sleep in the crew rest?” I mean, why not? So he took the bottom bunk and I took the top one - I think this was an A330 or 340 — it wasn’t nearly as fancy as the 787 here, but it was damn cozy. Pitch black, full lay flat, and I slept the whole 5 hours like it was 5 minutes. Later a few friends told me this was absurdly against every regulation and that I basically had a once-in-a-lifetime experience. But I guess shrug Iberia Airlines, eh?
- bjarneh 6y ago> and I slept the whole 5 hours like it was 5 minutes That's an experience I've never had on a flight
- skocznymroczny 6y agoI'm so jealous of people who can sleep on long distance flights. When the lights turn off, most people seem to have no issue falling asleep and then wake up several hours later. Meanwhile I have to stare at the window for all those hours. I can try to sleep, but I won't fall asleep anyway, no matter how tired I am.
- bjarneh 6y agoSame here, what a nightmare it is to take those long flights. I once waited 9 hours at an airport for a 12 hour flight; seldom been more exhausted than that. It wasn't even the last leg, so even more airports/waiting when we arrived. Is there a worse place to wait than those airports? The shops sell Rolex watches, Hugo Boss suits, alcohol (let me lug some bottles of vine/booze across the globe to save $12) + perfume. Obviously some overpriced cafe's and restaurants there as well, but not exactly a cool place to "hang out".
- rsynnott 6y ago> It’s amazing what you’ll find up here. There are smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, flashlights and portable oxygen containers for use in an emergency. There are also comfort items, such as power outlets, a small mirror, coat hooks and a phone to call the other flight attendant stations. I feel like that's stretching the term 'amazing' to beyond breaking point. Mandatory safety equipment! Small mirror!
- hammock 6y agoPar for the course for a TPG blog, or really, anyone in the air miles community in general. They're the foamers of the skies.
- LeonM 6y agoFor most airliners, it is allowed for crew to take 'companion' passengers, like friends or family on a flight. The companion must still pay for the ticket, but it is usually sold with a hefty discount. Companions also have no guarantee of a seat, if the flight is overbooked, you're out of luck. But.... on most flights it is allowed to have more passengers than seats, this all has to do with regulations on cabin-crew members vs number of passengers. So, it is not unusual for companions to sit in the cabin or cockpit jumpseat, or, you guessed it, the crew rest. As long as the regulations allow this of course. I have flown many times as a companion, mostly in smaller planes (that do not have a crew restroom), but also a couple of times in a 747, which have crew rests in the cockpit (2 full-size bunkbeds, and 2 business class seats and a bathroom).
- alexpotato 6y agoNot directly related but linked via crew rest: Back in grad school, one of my friends was married to a gentleman who was a pilot in the Air Force and his job was flying aerial refuelling tankers (aka KC-130s). I learned two interesting facts from him: - Even with the "War on Terror" going on in full swing, Air Force pilots were under the same FAA crew rest procedures as commercial (e.g. Delta, United etc) aviators - In the event that a hostile air force was targeting the AWACS (giant airborne RADAR platforms), the combat air traffic controllers would route the KC-130s in between the attackers and the AWACS. The idea was that the attackers would be confused and take out the tankers instead. The thinking here was that losing a tanker (essentially a giant flying gas can) was more acceptable than a complex electronics platform filled with specialists. Makes sense but still sobering from the perspective of the tanker crew.
- jacquesm 6y agoWhat are the chances of mistaking an AWACS for a tanker or vice versa?
- dsr_ 6y agoThey're pretty similar except for the giant radome on top of the AWACS. Both are Boeing products from the 707 family.
- wil421 6y agoAWACS E-3 is based on the Boeing 707. The KC-130 is based on the Lockheed C-130 and has turboprops. SAMs aren’t picky though.
- chipsa 6y agoYeah, but the Air Force doesn't fly KC-130s. They do fly KC-135s, and C-130s, but there's no point for adding the KC package on for the Air Force. Everything the USAF wants to refuel is fast enough that the KC-135s are a better plane for the USAF.
- 6y ago
- andy_ppp 6y agoI’m absolutely certain it must be possible to give everyone a bed onboard a flight. I’d take it over a seat even if I couldn’t sit up fully, you could pay by volume coffin -> suite.
- crooked-v 6y agoThe reason this hasn't happened is that it would increase evacuation times beyond the time allowed by regulatory agencies.
- tylergetsay 6y agoThe podcast 99% Invisible had a recent episode about evacuation times of airplanes
- andy_ppp 6y agoI still think the main cabin should be possible to eject and then parachute to the ground... seems more likely to work than land with no engines.
- therealbilly 6y agoWhen you get tired of dealing with the riffraff, go to the secret lounge and laugh it off.
- ed25519FUUU 6y agoThe funny thing is, in any other industry being told to take a break in such a small enclosed space would be brutal. On an airplane having space like that to lay down is absolutely bourgeoisie!
- saddestcatever 6y agoTrucks, trains, and planes! Can't wait for "personal cars" to join this list of places where you can sleep while traveling.
- fnord77 6y agoI suspect there's ironing boards and lint rollers stashed up there, too. How else could the crew uniforms always be so crisp
- hammock 6y agoPermanent press fabric
- fnord77 6y agoAlways wondered if an airliner could be configured with all bunk beds instead of seating and still maintain the capacity of a normal airliner.
- saddestcatever 6y agoIt totally could... if everyone was willing to forgo sitting up for the duration of the flight.
- athenot 6y agoProbably could fit. But probably impossible to evacuate within a reasonable time in case of an accident.
- crooked-v 6y agoFrom what I understand the real reason this or equivalent layouts haven't happened is emergency exit times. I think the current requirement is that everybody can at least theoretically get off the plane in 90 seconds, and tightly-packed bunks inflate that time compared to seats.
- ufmace 6y agoI have to figure that those times are pretty contrived. Maybe you can evacuate in 90 seconds, if all of the "passengers" are skinny and athletic, and know what's going to happen, and don't have any extra stuff to try and grab, and there's no fire or smoke, etc. All that makes it a little hard to say what the real effect is. It would probably be a bit slower, but I bet with all of the optimizations for their 90 second test evacuations, the all-bed-plane could still evacuate faster than a plane-full of real passengers. I guess there's just nobody ambitions enough around to try something really new.
- throwaheyy 6y agoI have the same impression from videos like [1] but I suppose that is all that is needed to certify the aircraft. It may not happen in the "real world", you never know how everyone in a plane of hundreds passengers will react, but the design of the plane has to allow it to be "possible". [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIaovi1JWyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIaovi1JWyY
- trhway 6y agosomehow we can't fly today like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boeing_377_sleeping_arrangements.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boeing_377_sleeping_arran...
- TulliusCicero 6y agoSure you can. Just takes $$$. Take however much those tickets cost then and then just adjust for inflation. I'm sure they weren't cheap.
- sandworm101 6y agoThese pods are optional extras when fitting new aircraft. They are normally only installed on aircraft meant for long hauls. So you wont see many of them in places like the US where the longest flights are rarely over five hours.
- walrus01 6y agoI realize that certifying DC electronics for airplane use is an expensive and complicated process. But I do wonder what the situation is for built-in USB charging ports up there.