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DevTerm - An Open Source Portable Terminal for Every Dev
- p410n3 6y agoThis together with pico-8 / tic-80 will be great!
- Aeolun 6y agoThis looks fantastic. Utterly useless, but fantastic.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- yourapostasy 6y agoNever in my fevered dreams while wrestling with this kind of display gear and accompanying terminal experience in the dark ages of computing, cursing the foul limitations and wishing I could jump forward a few decades, did I ever imagine people would pay to get the same experience I was going through back then. Sure, today there is a nostalgic twinge for my long-trashed yute, but not so nostalgic to pay for reliving it. These days, I want a cybernetic-augmented vision-nerves-proxy that projects as many windows and other visual artifacts as I want into my visual cone, and typing directly keyed off my brain's Broca's Area (or maybe the area for neuromuscular control of my fingers if using Broca's Area proves to yield too slow an input response). Hopefully powered by nano-powerplants hoovering up fatty acids and adipose cells from my blood, oxidizing into ATP, and generating electricity from the ATP. Hopefully thermal management is sufficient by drinking more water and exhaling more water vapor.
- GekkePrutser 6y agoWhen I studied, X-Terminals were rare, and always in use as people used them to explore this wonderous new World Wide Web. At the same time, we had rooms full of green text terminals that nobody bothered with anymore. You could just jump on one at any time. And because they were distraction-free, they were really great at getting actual work done. No facebook or yahoo or whatever crap it was at that time to distract you :) I kinda miss that. Though it's hard these days to work without documentation and stackoverflow on the side. But needing to invent every wheel did mean making better code in general, I think. It was just a lot slower. But yeah I've been looking to replicate that experience for a long time. This isn't it though.
- yourapostasy 6y ago> ...we had rooms full of green text terminals that nobody bothered with anymore... > ...I've been looking to replicate that experience for a long time. I am gobsmacked that eBay sellers are fetching $200+ USD on "vintage" DEC and similar terminals (there was a time they were going for $50 a pop, and if you got your timing right, you could haul them away for free from a university that was transitioning away from them), but if you can afford a big room, then you can afford a herd of terminals to stuff into them, and the serial multiplexer. Handling distractions got easier when I identified the kind of tasks I really didn't personally like to do and what in my personality caused that antipathy, and set up reward systems for doing them at first, and later delegate them to an employee.
- djsumdog 6y agoYea ... I dunno. This feels like e-waste before it even ships. I hope people who order this actually use them and make cool things.
- redisman 6y agoReminds me of the short lived netbook-fad but more stylish and less useful
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Uhrheber 6y agoMore for young developers with eagle eyes, that can't afford it, not for elder developers with enough money, but presbyopia.
- drcode 6y agoI'm an old fogie & will just be setting a huge terminal font size.
- timvdalen 6y agoI want one to leave in the drawer with all my Raspberry Pi's.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- XzAeRosho 6y agoI mean, it looks like a nice tool if you take it to debug on-site devices.
- dmd 6y agoI would buy something like this if it had HDMI and VGA in, and could let me use as a portable console to plug into machines.
- ianai 6y agoTotally. A portable KVM/crash cart could be useful.
- woodrowbarlow 6y agotake a look at NexDock - laptop form factor, without the innards. just a keyboard, trackpad, screen, and battery waiting to connect to a phone, server rack, pi, or what have you.
- maxbaines 6y agoI second this, have one of the Touch models - the build quality is great. Yes it works with my Samsung on which I have Ubuntu via VNC running on the phone. But also and more useful for me is it has HDMI in and USB out for keyboard and mouse, works perfectly for when you need a kvm setup. did I say the build quality is great?...
- 6y ago
- dusted 6y agoI can't even imagine the pain in neck, eyes and fingers from using this for any amount of time, looks kind of fun though, but, useless
- zokier 6y agoHaving the display at some angle would dramatically improve the ergonomics. I guess joints+ffc would increase cost quite a bit, but even a fixed angle would be improvement
- wffurr 6y agoSeems terribly unergonomic. A laptop is bad enough. This doesn’t even have a full size keyboard. What is with that layout? I like the concept, but it needs to be two pieces - screen and keyboard - so they can be positioned appropriately, and it needs a full size keyboard with a track point. You could just about hack something up like this with a tablet that can run Linux and a Thinkpad keyboard, like this one: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/new-arrivals/KBD-BO-TrackPoint-KBD-US-Eng/p/4Y40X49493 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/new-ar...
- AshamedCaptain 6y agoVery dubious about the placement of the trackpoint-like-thing..
- RaycatRakittra 6y agoThis looks sweet. To me, the physicality of one of the "fantasy consoles" mixed with a bit more power might make for some interesting games and projects. The only thing I would wonder is if they could tilt that screen up a bit like an AlphaSmart.
- oftenwrong 6y agoThe flat design would seem to make this even less ergonomic than a laptop (an already low bar). Is this meant to be placed on a desk? The user would basically have to hang their head down to look at the display, which is just in front of their fingers. There is no possible way to maintain a healthy posture without an external display. Otherwise, the retro hardware aesthetic is cool. Reminds me a bit of the early briefcase-format portable computers. I can't think of any actual use I would have for a thermal printer, but I like the idea of it.
- cmiles74 6y agoI think it's meant to be reminiscent of the TRS 80 100. Even so, I agree: being entirely flat will cause many stiff necks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100
- fogihujy 6y agoOr the older Epson HX-20, considering the built-in printer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_HX-20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_HX-20
- jnwatson 6y agoMy thought exactly. I had great fun with my HX-20. That and a Tandy/Sharp Pocket Computer were my first programming experiences as a young child; I spent hours programming both.
- mcshicks 6y agoYeah we had a tandy 102 that was my dad's and that was the first thing I thought when I looked at it. It was a fun little computer my son used to write basic programs on it.
- masswerk 6y agoAlso mind the various siblings of the TRS-80 Model 100, the NEC PC-8201(A), the Olivetti M-10, and the Kyotronic 85, which share the same basic design (by Kyocera). https://www.masswerk.at/rc2016/01/01.html https://www.masswerk.at/rc2016/01/01.html
- Niccizero 6y agoWhy not just use a X230?
- 1996 6y agoBecause, as someone brilliantly said above, it's more about signaling to others that you embody the "hacker lifestyle" than anything else. The minimalist lifestyle of repurposing an old device, not buying an extra one, would fail to signal your "hacker spirit" as you would not stand out so much - unless say, you add bolts reminiscent of frankenstein to the side of the screen, but you'd need a good excuse, or you might get called out. This perfectly achieves the goal, with plausible deniability for the bolts: "it was built like that to make opening faster" - as if Phillips head screwdrivers were at a premium...
- pantalaimon 6y agoLooks pretty neat! But what's the point of the thermal printer? Is this supposed to be used as a portable cash register?
- hellomrjack 6y agoI would use it with the adhesive thermal paper for labelling up infrastructure, it sounds like it could make a decent administration machine. An Ethernet jack might be needed though.
- xienze 6y agoSomething like this is much better suited to that purpose: https://brothermobilesolutions.com/products/handheld-printers/p-touch-edge-series/brother-pt-e550w/ https://brothermobilesolutions.com/products/handheld-printer...
- Karliss 6y agoThis has potential advantage of being able to register the thing you label in a database.
- bartvk 6y agoIt makes me think about when I was young, and my friend had the Sinclair ZX80 and the printer that came with it.
- drcode 6y agoI think there's lots of creative use cases for it, I could imagine printing out chunks of my source code as I'm programming, to reference as I work on other parts.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- iNate2000 6y agoI’ve imagined using a thermal printer as a semi-unattended packet radio terminal that wouldn’t lose messages when the batteries died.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- corgihamlet 6y agoLacks an ethernet port!
- jedimastert 6y agoFull cyberdeck vibes, I love it!
- goatinaboat 6y agoA5 is too small, at A4 I would be interested. Are those volume/brightness controls on the sides, or are they just decorative?
- drcode 6y agoafaik the "knobs" are decorative fasteners that snap together the front and back plates of the device. They have no active function.
- drcode 6y agoafaik the "knobs" are decorative fasteners that snap together the front and back plates of the device. They are not functional knobs.
- sidpatil 6y agoThat's a shame. Those could have been useful for adjusting volume, brightness, zoom/scale, h/v scroll, etc.
- m463 6y agoReminds me of the trs 80 model 100, which was extremely popular with journalists and was powered by AA batteries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100
- dmd 6y agoCrossed with the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_HX-20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_HX-20 which had a built-in printer.
- flower-giraffe 6y agoYes, or indeed the later and cheaper Z88 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Z88 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Z88
- dmd 6y agoThis looks like an 5th grader sketched their perfect computer and then a GAN turned it into a real design.
- udioron 6y agoWouldn't a cheap tablet be much more productive and cost effective?
- speedgoose 6y agoOr a bluetooth keyboard for your smartphone. You can have Bluetooth mechanical keyboards for cheap nowadays.
- calcifer 6y agoDo you know any tablets with thermal printers that are most cost effective than this one?
- udioron 6y agoHaving a bluetooth thermal printer in my bag seems more handy than having it attached to the device all the time. Should be very cheap.
- detaro 6y agoFor what goal?
- ensiferum 6y agoWhat is it? Is it laptop? A tablet? A keyboard? I'm confused.
- Houston420 6y agoIt's portable terminal
- kilroy123 6y agoLooks great! I think my 12 year old nephew would love this. He's just getting into coding and hacking.
- stjo 6y agoFor everybody wondering what this is: DevTerm is a retro-entertainment terminal. Powerful hardware allows you to smoothly relive the history of various famous video games, software, and even vintage systems. DevTerm provides you with the latest open-source OS, rich applications, and development tools, from Web browsers, multimedia APPs to many indie-game engines. One more thing, just like LEGO, Gundam, Tamiya, the unique unboxing experience will be as exciting as many assembled toys. As many have noticed, it is quite expensive and unergonomic. Their selling point is entertainment, nostalgia and cyberpunk feel, not really a useful tool. Quite cool if you are into that.
- woahAcademia 6y agoThe ergonomics is a deal breaker.
- protomyth 6y agoThat keyboard is just an awful use of space. I would love to buy something in this form factor with a decent keyboard.
- Y_Y 6y agoMy old Kindle was perfect for this, small thumb-keyboard, great e-ink screen, amenable to homebrew. Then an ex lost it reading Fifty Shades in an airport, and you can't buy them any more. I'm saving up for a Remarkable.
- corn13read 6y agoRemarkable doesn't have a thumb keyboard, you can still get them on ebay
- core-questions 6y agoHow do you know it's bad? It looks like it has a chance of being pretty usable.
- thinbeige 6y agoOT: I fell into the rabbit hole of designing hardware (something like this). Just don't do it, it's super fun but it doesn't pay off: every SoC is different and you start with every SoC from scratch and waste tons of time. Prototyping is slow, you need min 2 weeks for every iteration (for smaller endeavors) and the worst, 98% of hardware-based business models are weak and don't provide any lock-in.
- moron4hire 6y agoThey're basing this (and their other product, the GameShell, which looks like an old Gameboy) on the Raspberry Pi compute module. I believe they have their own PCB to fit into their formfactors, but the SoC should be well-supported.
- accrual 6y agoIf you like this you may like the cyberdeck subreddit. It's mostly homebrew computer cases (often using Raspberry Pi's) with various displays, keyboards, radios, etc., intended to look futuristic/cyberpunk. https://old.reddit.com/r/cyberDeck/top/?sort=top&t=year https://old.reddit.com/r/cyberDeck/top/?sort=top&t=year
- deadbunny 6y agoI didn't know I needed this in my life. Thanks.
- dazhbog 6y agoAny idea how does one make those product renders? Is it standard keyshot/blender or any other software?
- utf_8x 6y agoThe slight noise would suggest they're ray-traced... Could be Blender with the Cycles renderer (perfectly capable of doing photo-realistic renders) or any of the wide array of commercial renderers out there...
- nwienert 6y agoMaking it so you can prop/tilt the display up + making the display e-ink would make it my dream typewriter.
- moron4hire 6y agoI wish Clockwork would make a batch of the GameShells again. I've been wanting one for a while, but they've been out of stock every time I check https://www.clockworkpi.com/gameshell https://www.clockworkpi.com/gameshell
- pbronez 6y agoagree. I just discovered it browsing around from this article, and was disappointed to see you can't actually buy one. Would have made a great Christmas gift!
- moron4hire 6y agoWell, I just managed to get one on eBay for about $120.
- lewsid 6y agoThey had some manufacturing delays due to covid: https://forum.clockworkpi.com/t/gameshell-out-of-stock/5864 https://forum.clockworkpi.com/t/gameshell-out-of-stock/5864
- tym0 6y agoI'd like them to make a V2 with proper triggers, the V1 seems to be the best made console out of all of these linux handheld.
- moron4hire 6y agoYeah, I just got mine in hand a couple of days ago. First impressions: the default setup is surprisingly good, for what it is. Works a lot better out-of-box than my Ouya ever did, for what it's worth. Buttons are a little squishy. Not every app supports the menu button. I've had to hard-power-off the device to get out of certain apps. The back-side strip of buttons is a little awkward, though I understand why they did it that way (it's meant to be an add-on). There is a port next to the USB port that isn't labeled or documented on the website. I think it's HDMI Type D "Micro". Hooooly hell, there is ZERO documentation for this thing. How do you actually write games for it? I guess you just make a standard GTK application, from what I can see in the forums. There's support for a few popular fantasy consoles and emulators, but making a native app is not clear. Also, it has an SSH server on by default, but I've yet to be able to get connected to it. Nothing on the forums about it. They just say "you just SSH in over the WiFi". EDIT: LOL, whoever put this together before me put the speakers in upside down.
- cmrdporcupine 6y agoNeat idea, but it'll end up being just another ARM SoC SBC with a fancy case that people will buy and then forget about. I don't really need yet another machine that boots to Linux that runs better elsewhere. Unless there's a compelling use case or novel platform that gets people really excited, these things are hard to get a large committed audience for. I'd be interested if they stuck a RISC-V SoC in there -- like say the Kendryte K210.
- fbn79 6y agoThe keyboard layout is a bit awkward for a development console. I'll would prefer a more standard 65% layout like the whitefox or Drop ALT Keyboard. I think they choose the layot to have a gameshell compatible keys, but not sure if good decision.
- p5a0u9l 6y ago“post-modern”? Not a word I’d ever imagine applied to a gadget. Like, the gadget has existential angst or some sh..
- niek_pas 6y agoWell, design can be postmodern (like postmodern architecture), but this is not that.
- WesolyKubeczek 6y agoI'd like one but the keyboard on this one is, frankly, dreck. On a terminal, nothing beats a good keyboard. I'd put up with it being reflective monochrome LCD (sign me up if you know someone who makes these – I would finally be able to work in sunlight), but the keyboard must be top notch.
- high_5 6y agoAlthough this isn't something I would buy, I'm glad it's being done with open hardware. It gives me hope that there will always be some hardware to support open source software.
- midrus 6y agoYay!! the new Thinkpad nano is finally here!!!
- slmjkdbtl 6y agocould be keyboard with a GIANT touch bar
- grugagag 6y agoI personally like the gameshell kit but this is fun too. I wonder what the build quality is but the fact that the screen doesn't tilt is a turn off for me personally (neck issues) and don't see myself typing on that keyboard while holding it in my hands. I got a pocketchip which is has been discontinued and that had a much worse keyboard but the form factor was a bit better suited for handheld computing. At this point I wish the pocketchip had the performance of this device or this device had that form factor or had a tiltable screen.
- ambyra 6y agoThere is a bulge at the back that gives it a bit of an angle on a desk.
- derefr 6y agoPeople are comparing this to 80’s 8-bit micro aesthetic, but I think the real comparator here is to 1. modern thin oscilloscopes, and 2. mainframe “support element” console pseudo-notebooks. I want to talk a little bit more about that second one, because some people here probably haven’t heard of them: If you buy a mainframe computer, there’s usually going to be a “local administration console” of some kind built in. This is usually something that looks like a laptop, but which isn’t a laptop per se; it’s repurposed laptop hardware—just the screen and the keyboard—built into hinge-out design such that it’s flat and tucked away into the mainframe chassis itself when not in use. When you pull it out, it springs out and the keyboard hinges up and locks, such that you can use it as a laptop. But crucially, this “laptop” is not its own computer — rather, it’s wired to be the local display + keyboard of a little accessory server (the aforementioned “support element”) running within the mainframe chassis. And because that accessory server runs the top-level Baseboard Management Controller for the mainframe as a whole, that interface is the management interface for the mainframe — but not a watered-down IPMI web interface; rather, a full-fat GUI client interface with observability and control over the rest of the mainframe. I’ve always found this “support element” peripheral hardware inspiring as a design approach. Not for the specific hardware involved, or the specific way these attach to the server, but for how the idea behind them could be generalized. Because this hardware interface is essentially an evolution of an older idea — putting a textual management interface as a TTY on a serial port, and giving the mainframe its own VT100-alike connected to that serial port. This is that, but graphical, and with support for things like plugging USB devices into the “laptop” hardware. What’s missing, is the protocol. Only this “laptop” can connect to the support element. But what if anything could? Imagine if there was a modernized equivalent standard for “a serial port with a TTY attached to it”: a USB-C sub-protocol carrier supporting bonded USB and HDMI, but not to the host—rather, sandboxed under the IOMMU, routed to either the computer’s BIOS, its BMC, or its dom0 VM. Imagine if devices like laptops, tablets-with-keyboards, etc. could run “fullly-graphical terminal emulator” apps, that would support speaking this protocol with such hosts. If this kind of standard existed, then, as an ops person, you wouldn’t need these built-in support-element peripherals on mainframes; you’d just carry around your laptop, and the mainframe would maybe have a stand to set it on and a retractable USB-C cable; and plugging the cable into your laptop with your fully-graphical terminal emulator open would get you a management console, supporting not just mouse/keyboard interaction but USB redirection, just as if you were running a local VM. And you would get the same thing if you plugged your laptop into an Intel workstation supporting (and configured for) AMT; or any machine running a bare-metal hypervisor like ESXi. Plug a terminal into that port; get a management console. Of course, it’s kind of clumsy to carry a laptop around. You’d want something more like one of these thin, modern oscilloscopes — something you can nestle in the crook of your arm while prodding at it with your other hand, or prodding at the computer-under-test itself. Which — finally — is exactly the use-case DevTerm seems to be built for. A shame that use-case is, for now, imaginary! (I would note that Samsung’s DEX wire-protocol for “extending” Android devices to peripheral docks is very close, but not exactly the same. Maybe it could be adapted to fit this use-case!)
- Chris2048 6y ago> USB POGO Pin on the back of the keyboard is naturally connected to the mainboard, saving you the tedious operation of cable connection Are pogo pins ok for long-term connections?
- utf_8x 6y agoNot an expert but I would say yes. The springs will fail eventually but if they're high enough quality they should last for tens of years at-least... Depending on how heavily they're loaded however you might get some connectivity issues with vibrations...
- ogre_codes 6y agoI used to own an Epson HX-20 and at the time it was amazing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_HX-20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_HX-20 Now? I'm not entirely sold on what looks like pretty mediocre ergonomics. Apparently the price is through the roof too. It was forth the click for the nostalgia, but I have zero interest in spending a fist full of cash for a toy.
- busfahrer 6y agoOut of curiosity, how did a computer of that age make use of two general purpose CPUs?
- ogre_codes 6y agoNot entirely sure myself, I was pretty young when I had it and just used it for writing fairly simple BASIC programs.
- ChickeNES 6y agoOne controlled the keyboard, memory, and LCD, and the other the printer, speaker, and cassette drive, and apparently communicated with each other over a serial bus.
- utf_8x 6y agoThis is just stupid, impractical, pointless... I want one!
- elagost 6y agoA lot of people focusing on the fact that it's kind of a toy, but isn't that the point? I have a GameShell (gameboy-shaped Linux computer also made by Clockworkpi) and the best part about it is the vibrant and active community that continues to hack on OS images and programs (and of course games!) to this day. I don't use it every day, but it's very high quality, was super fun to build, and has only gotten better with time. I trust these people to make a great device that works well, gets support, is fully open source, and is super fun to play with.
- tiborsaas 6y agoThe printer makes the use case obvious: you show up at the client's location. Do some terminal magic and print the invoice. Genius :)
- shyrka 6y agoA portable with a mech keyboard is what I've been wanting for years. Are there other options btw?
- jfax 6y agoI don't have much faith in preorders from small hardware vendors, so I'll pass. In truth, if I wanted to do recreational programming I'd put Temple OS on a T60.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- drcode 6y agoLOL I'm just assuming my preorder is a donation towards a fun R&D project... if it ever ships I'll be pleasantly surprised.
- jefurii 6y agoI wish the expansion port was more cartridge-like.
- mturk 6y agoI have and like the gameshell from clockworkpi. I'm particularly intrigued by the "Volume VIZ" window on the stock image and curious if that's a real pic or a staged/rendered one.
- KaiserPro 6y agoI Think this is fantastic. Lots of people seem to be moaning about how the keyboard is going to feel aweful. Well so what, its portable got a wide-arsed screen and a printer Looks fantastic.
- jack_riminton 6y agoI don't get it, what would you use it for? (apart from trying to look retro cool at the nearest overpriced coffee place)
- drcode 6y agoWhen you know you have to spend the next couple of hours thinking hard about something, so you go somewhere contemplative to work it out. In that case, you just need a compact, reliable device to take a couple of notes or code up a simple algo.
- jack_riminton 6y agoLike a laptop with wifi off?
- GekkePrutser 6y agoThat trackball with the buttons miles away looks really unergonomic. And why go for the Rpi 3 CM when the 4 is out now? That's sad as it leaves a lot of upgradability behind. PS: What are those wheels on the side? They look a bit typewriterish but I assume they are for something else?
- drcode 6y agoI think anyone buying a device like this is likely a heavy keyboard user already and will only use the trackball on occasion.
- incanus77 6y agoThe CM4 was only announced in November and the form factor completely changed compared to all the previous generations. I think the design improvements are positive, but it was a shock for those who have designed around the <=CM3+ with long-term plans in mind.
- chem83 6y agoThat screen looks like a good candidate to recreate the Vaio P form factor.
- drcode 6y agoAgreed, I bet one of the first things modders will do is figure out how to add a hinge, both for better portability, as well as to help tilt the screen. (assuming it ever ships...)
- drcode 6y agoI think it's kind of annoying that 90% of the comments here are about ergonomics. Undoubtedly this is a relevant issue, but also seems like the least interesting aspect of this creative gadget to comment on.
- soheil 6y agoI thought this was literally something like iTerm2 with its own dedicated hardware. Creating a retro terminal like that and one that uses modern hardware under the hood with a large mechanical keyboard would be a blast. For added bonus if it could run Sublime Text it'd be even more amazing.
- fnord77 6y agothe first pic makes it look like a modern Tandy 100, which would be awesome. But unfortunately, it is much tinier.
- walrus01 6y agoThis is a cool idea as an art project (obviously it's meant to look like a TRS-80 model 100), or some sort of retro mid-1980s cyberpunk thing, but in terms of practicality for real use, almost nil. If you want a real distraction-free portable terminal for stuff like this, take an old netbook or super thin laptop, install openbsd on it (or a very minimal debian), and then use a text mode multi session manager like screen or termux to do everything in the CLI.
- greyhair 6y agoTandy did this many years ago, with better ergonomics. [edit] It was really a Kyocera machine branded by Tandy (and others) I knew a Bell Labs department head that owned one back in the late 1980s and used it while traveling. The ergonomics on them was really quite good.