5 ms·

Thank you for providing an actual, tangible downside to this. I've never really seen one before. So many articles like this end up with people coming up with sc

by imgabe 6y ago

Thank you for providing an actual, tangible downside to this. I've never really seen one before. So many articles like this end up with people coming up with scenarios like "But what if there's a dictator and he wants to round up everyone who bought a 12-pack of Charmin' last week?" It would be interesting to see the arms race that could arise, though. If individualized prices became enough of a thing, there would probably be personal shoppers who would buy things for you at a lower price with their "poor person" data profile and pocket a percentage of the difference. Or more likely, there will probably be a way to run a browser with the right cookies to give you the lowest price.

taneq 6y ago
If you want a really evil example, consider a version of Android Auto which knows when you’re low on fuel and auctions your “nearby fuel stations” search result slots to the highest bidders, in exchange for which the bidders get notified that they can jack up their prices on you.
- gretch 6y ago
  But in real life examples, the exact opposite has been playing out. Instead of you being sold to the richest, hungriest gas station, it's more like all of the gas stations racing to the lowest price to serve you, and consumers having no brand relationships with gas stations anymore. If Android auto was always serving up expensive gas, users would start using bing or apple maps - I certainly would if there was such a tangible cost difference
  - taneq 6y ago
    How many people would do so, though? How many non-technical people are capable of untangling themselves from Google’s services? How many non-technical people are even aware that “Google” isn’t the only search engine?
    - oarsinsync 6y ago
      I learnt about Waze many years ago from non technical folks. Drivers have niche communities of their own too, where stuff like this gets disseminated. “Waze is better than google maps for directions” for a long time was true. Then google bought it. If Waze can rise up, so can another. Especially where it’ll save drivers some % on their fuel bills. Even more so in European countries with high fuel duties.
      - Xelbair 6y ago
        >[..]Then google bought it.[..] And that will happen to every competitor on that market.
    - krageon 6y ago
      For non-technical people I would say it is much easier. Use another service that offers email, calendar and contacts (Germany is full of them) - done. For storage it's a little more complicated. Other than that, what do regular people use? Search? I've seen just as many use bing or what have you.
  - grawprog 6y ago
    That's not the situation in the town where i live. There's less tax here compared to the city, gas prices should be lower, instead, every gas station in town is priced higher and all keep the same high price. Years ago, the grocery stores here did the same thing. It's taken 15 years for them to finally begin to actually compete with each other...well just prior to covid anyway...
    - viraptor 6y ago
      This is pretty standard due to transport + location costs, isn't it? Gas is close to cheapest in city suburbs.
- eloisant 6y ago
  This is already happening. Uber is making you pay more when your phone is low on battery (because they know you don't have too much time to think about how you're getting back home). Airline companies are showing you higher prices if they believe you can afford it, from the information they're getting about you (like your user agent).
  - skummetmaelk 6y ago
    Disgusting
    - mewpmewp2 6y ago
      Except this same thing has been happening in all of history. Salesmen asking different prices from different people through negotiations. I don't see it being necessarily a bad thing.
    - hansvm 6y ago
      Why? In any transaction there's a non-negative spread between how much the buyer and seller value the item being exchanged. Why is it disgusting if the seller captures that spread but not if the buyer captures it, or is there some other distinction you're drawing? Off-topic: this same idea has been cropping up a lot on HN recently with respect to salaries when moving to lower CoL areas. The argument on one side is that their work hasn't become less useful, and on the other side we hear that with a lower CoL you need the money less, and we have a bit of a holy war going on trying to describe why one side or the other has some moral claim to the entirety of that surplus.
      - ttalle 6y ago
        The problem is with the information inbalance. Before, a salesman, for example would look at what kind of clothing you were wearing and what segment items you're looking for. Now let's do a little thought-experiment with the Uber ride and look at the information you and Uber have to make your price and choice on: For Uber: - What time is it? + - Are you far away from home? + - Have you been here before? - - What have you paid before? + - Where do you shop usually? + - Are you rich? ++ - Are you ill? + - Are you pregnant? + - Are you drunk? ++ - Are you very drunk? +++ (bonus!) - Are you sad? + - Did you just break up? ++ - Do you have any friends? +/- - Do you have any friends with cars? - - Are you alone? + - Are you going home? + - Are you already home? - - probably a lot more... For you: - Price? - How screwed am I if I don't take the ride? There are not many other options. Maybe a taxi's while they last and Lyft probably has the same algorithm.
grawprog 6y ago
>there would probably be personal shoppers who would buy things for you at a lower price with their "poor person" data profile and pocket a percentage of the difference See...there's always someone that can come up with an even more awful scenario. I'd never even thought of such a thing...but that really doesn't sound too far fetched. I guess it would create a new little economy, but i dunno, these things always remind me of something from black mirror. And most of the depictions of the future in that show kinda horrified me.
- Rmblnm4n 6y ago
  “New little economy” = market Adam Smith only mentions markets in terms of free labor market A new little economy, a niche for someone to work on something. Later he warned against such granular role. Writing such deep division of labor would make humans as dumb a creature of possible. He also suggested protection of equality of condition to avoid monopolizing behavior would be required to control aristocracy But that part of the story is omitted for “find a widget you like making and stick to it forever.” Easier to keep people in their box if they just stick to being some normalized role. Of course this made perfect sense to aristocrats whose normalized role was handed to them by deity or unethical law protecting fruits of violent conquest, but whatever, got my iPhone.
shafyy 6y ago
Isn't price discrimination like this illegal in the US? I know it's illegal in the EU for sure.
Vinnl 6y ago
How about "bombarding someone with articles about how voting doesn't matter if their spending pattern matches that of a particular demographic"?
- the_jeremy 6y ago
  gaslighting as a service: https://www.thespinner.net/ https://www.thespinner.net/

by imgabe 6y ago

taneq 6y ago

If you want a really evil example, consider a version of Android Auto which knows when you’re low on fuel and auctions your “nearby fuel stations” search result slots to the highest bidders, in exchange for which the bidders get notified that they can jack up their prices on you.

gretch 6y ago
But in real life examples, the exact opposite has been playing out. Instead of you being sold to the richest, hungriest gas station, it's more like all of the gas stations racing to the lowest price to serve you, and consumers having no brand relationships with gas stations anymore. If Android auto was always serving up expensive gas, users would start using bing or apple maps - I certainly would if there was such a tangible cost difference
- taneq 6y ago
  How many people would do so, though? How many non-technical people are capable of untangling themselves from Google’s services? How many non-technical people are even aware that “Google” isn’t the only search engine?
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    I learnt about Waze many years ago from non technical folks. Drivers have niche communities of their own too, where stuff like this gets disseminated. “Waze is better than google maps for directions” for a long time was true. Then google bought it. If Waze can rise up, so can another. Especially where it’ll save drivers some % on their fuel bills. Even more so in European countries with high fuel duties.
    - Xelbair 6y ago
      >[..]Then google bought it.[..] And that will happen to every competitor on that market.
  - krageon 6y ago
    For non-technical people I would say it is much easier. Use another service that offers email, calendar and contacts (Germany is full of them) - done. For storage it's a little more complicated. Other than that, what do regular people use? Search? I've seen just as many use bing or what have you.
- grawprog 6y ago
  That's not the situation in the town where i live. There's less tax here compared to the city, gas prices should be lower, instead, every gas station in town is priced higher and all keep the same high price. Years ago, the grocery stores here did the same thing. It's taken 15 years for them to finally begin to actually compete with each other...well just prior to covid anyway...
  - viraptor 6y ago
    This is pretty standard due to transport + location costs, isn't it? Gas is close to cheapest in city suburbs.
eloisant 6y ago
This is already happening. Uber is making you pay more when your phone is low on battery (because they know you don't have too much time to think about how you're getting back home). Airline companies are showing you higher prices if they believe you can afford it, from the information they're getting about you (like your user agent).
- skummetmaelk 6y ago
  Disgusting
  - mewpmewp2 6y ago
    Except this same thing has been happening in all of history. Salesmen asking different prices from different people through negotiations. I don't see it being necessarily a bad thing.
  - hansvm 6y ago
    Why? In any transaction there's a non-negative spread between how much the buyer and seller value the item being exchanged. Why is it disgusting if the seller captures that spread but not if the buyer captures it, or is there some other distinction you're drawing? Off-topic: this same idea has been cropping up a lot on HN recently with respect to salaries when moving to lower CoL areas. The argument on one side is that their work hasn't become less useful, and on the other side we hear that with a lower CoL you need the money less, and we have a bit of a holy war going on trying to describe why one side or the other has some moral claim to the entirety of that surplus.
    - ttalle 6y ago
      The problem is with the information inbalance. Before, a salesman, for example would look at what kind of clothing you were wearing and what segment items you're looking for. Now let's do a little thought-experiment with the Uber ride and look at the information you and Uber have to make your price and choice on: For Uber: - What time is it? + - Are you far away from home? + - Have you been here before? - - What have you paid before? + - Where do you shop usually? + - Are you rich? ++ - Are you ill? + - Are you pregnant? + - Are you drunk? ++ - Are you very drunk? +++ (bonus!) - Are you sad? + - Did you just break up? ++ - Do you have any friends? +/- - Do you have any friends with cars? - - Are you alone? + - Are you going home? + - Are you already home? - - probably a lot more... For you: - Price? - How screwed am I if I don't take the ride? There are not many other options. Maybe a taxi's while they last and Lyft probably has the same algorithm.

grawprog 6y ago

>there would probably be personal shoppers who would buy things for you at a lower price with their "poor person" data profile and pocket a percentage of the difference See...there's always someone that can come up with an even more awful scenario. I'd never even thought of such a thing...but that really doesn't sound too far fetched. I guess it would create a new little economy, but i dunno, these things always remind me of something from black mirror. And most of the depictions of the future in that show kinda horrified me.

Rmblnm4n 6y ago
“New little economy” = market Adam Smith only mentions markets in terms of free labor market A new little economy, a niche for someone to work on something. Later he warned against such granular role. Writing such deep division of labor would make humans as dumb a creature of possible. He also suggested protection of equality of condition to avoid monopolizing behavior would be required to control aristocracy But that part of the story is omitted for “find a widget you like making and stick to it forever.” Easier to keep people in their box if they just stick to being some normalized role. Of course this made perfect sense to aristocrats whose normalized role was handed to them by deity or unethical law protecting fruits of violent conquest, but whatever, got my iPhone.

shafyy 6y ago

Isn't price discrimination like this illegal in the US? I know it's illegal in the EU for sure.

Vinnl 6y ago

How about "bombarding someone with articles about how voting doesn't matter if their spending pattern matches that of a particular demographic"?

the_jeremy 6y ago
gaslighting as a service: https://www.thespinner.net/ https://www.thespinner.net/