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I really don't believe people think that way, unfortunately. Many people see this as the "natural order of things". The idea that a significant percentage of th

I really don't believe people think that way, unfortunately. Many people see this as the "natural order of things". The idea that a significant percentage of the population should be in debt, jobless or lacking healthcare coverage has been normalized and institutionalized in the US. Anyone who wants to change this will be fighting an uphill battle against cultural norms, vested business interests and ideological positions.

ilaksh 6y ago
Its usually all of the above. In debt, jobless AND lacking healthcare.
kiba 6y ago
They do? Who are these people?
- batt4good 6y ago
  Well yeah, animals that can't hunt or fend for themselves are killed by predators or starve to death. Humans are animals. If I have a family, I will care for my kin before strangers who don't know any better or are too stupid to help themselves. At a certain scale, helping hopeless people starts to harm society. This is true regardless of your political persuasion. Republicans point to never ending handouts and democrats point to "deplorables". Both are disgusting, however it's ironic what those in the west consider "suffering" in one of the most wealthy nations on earth. Laziness and self pity will kill a man faster than simply being disadvantaged.
  - jahaja 6y ago
    Uhm, blatant Social-Darwinism is barely down-voted at HN now? That entire post is absolute garbage and bullshit and have no relation to history with the gem being this: "helping hopeless people starts to harm society". You do realize that we are all "useless" for the first 15-20 years? Not to mention the empirical evidence disproving that claim that you seemingly don't give a shit about; like other countries than the US.
    - dang 6y ago
      Would you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? We've asked you this multiple times and you've not only continued to do it, you've done it more. If you continue breaking the site guidelines we're going to end up having to ban you. The GP comment was a bad one, but responding with a second bad one not only doesn't help, it breaks the site guidelines in an additional way: "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - jahaja 6y ago
        To not shun such a vile comment indicates a sick community. Furthermore I'm replying to comments that needs a response, not starting them. In fact, I'm unsure if I've ever started one. Unfortunately however, HN provides a lot of comments that requires a response because they're either just vile, pure propaganda, or entirely false. And given the demographics of this site they are rarely, if ever, shunned if they just meet two criteria: they're somewhat articulate and they hold a good tone (bonus points if they contain links to vaguely associated "sources"). So you want to dog-whistle racism on HN without any particular reaction? Don't write something stupid and blatant, pick one of these options instead: * "Well, your country is much more homogeneous." * "Inequality is unfortunate but remember that IQ is very much determined by genes and that IQ is the strongest determining factor for future income so it is what it is." etc etc. I can't just ignore such bullshit, especially when it's left without any reaction.
- CinchWrench 6y ago
  Lol. which people? The ones questioning why we should accept this or the ones foisting this on the population? I could tell you but I'll be b& from commenting. :-)
  - pueblito 6y ago
    I would personally prefer a direct answer. Then your post could be informative and discussed. Perhaps you could add nuance to the discourse. I think that by joking around that you’d be banned for doing so prevents that discussion from happening
    - CinchWrench 6y ago
      It's no joke, pal.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  Everyone that votes republican. Even many centrist democrats think so.
  - mythrwy 6y ago
    Everyone who votes republican doesn't believe that. Maybe some republicans simply think realistic solutions are not those you believe will work.
    - germinalphrase 6y ago
      I’m from a Republican family in a culturally conservative part of the upper Midwest. It’s disappointing to see the national level Republican Party so diminished as to be seemingly nihilistic. Unless it falls in the bucket of tax cuts or deregulation, there seems to be so little positive vision of what the future should look like.
      - da_big_ghey 6y ago
        I've seen the same among most Republicans I know. They're despondent because the Republican party these days is just fighting against the far-leftists that are taking over the Democrat party. It's basically a one-way ratchet leftward: the Democrats get power and move stuff, then the Republicans get power and just prevent movement for a few years. The Libertarian party is the only one that's truly fighting for a better future with things like small government, gun rights, and lower taxes. The LP presents a positive vision of the future and a plan to get there that I like. So I'll keep voting Libertarian, even though I know we have no chance.
      - mythrwy 6y ago
        Maybe the idea is the government shouldn't be in the business of saying what they future should look like? The government keeps the roads fixed and the playing field level and the country safe. People, as individuals say what the future looks like.
grecy 6y ago
> The idea that a significant percentage of the population should be in debt, jobless or lacking healthcare coverage has been normalized and institutionalized. FWIW, that's only true in America, which is only 5% of the world's population. Hundreds of millions of people around the world have it much better.

ilaksh 6y ago

Its usually all of the above. In debt, jobless AND lacking healthcare.

kiba 6y ago

They do? Who are these people?

batt4good 6y ago
Well yeah, animals that can't hunt or fend for themselves are killed by predators or starve to death. Humans are animals. If I have a family, I will care for my kin before strangers who don't know any better or are too stupid to help themselves. At a certain scale, helping hopeless people starts to harm society. This is true regardless of your political persuasion. Republicans point to never ending handouts and democrats point to "deplorables". Both are disgusting, however it's ironic what those in the west consider "suffering" in one of the most wealthy nations on earth. Laziness and self pity will kill a man faster than simply being disadvantaged.
- jahaja 6y ago
  Uhm, blatant Social-Darwinism is barely down-voted at HN now? That entire post is absolute garbage and bullshit and have no relation to history with the gem being this: "helping hopeless people starts to harm society". You do realize that we are all "useless" for the first 15-20 years? Not to mention the empirical evidence disproving that claim that you seemingly don't give a shit about; like other countries than the US.
  - dang 6y ago
    Would you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? We've asked you this multiple times and you've not only continued to do it, you've done it more. If you continue breaking the site guidelines we're going to end up having to ban you. The GP comment was a bad one, but responding with a second bad one not only doesn't help, it breaks the site guidelines in an additional way: "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - jahaja 6y ago
      To not shun such a vile comment indicates a sick community. Furthermore I'm replying to comments that needs a response, not starting them. In fact, I'm unsure if I've ever started one. Unfortunately however, HN provides a lot of comments that requires a response because they're either just vile, pure propaganda, or entirely false. And given the demographics of this site they are rarely, if ever, shunned if they just meet two criteria: they're somewhat articulate and they hold a good tone (bonus points if they contain links to vaguely associated "sources"). So you want to dog-whistle racism on HN without any particular reaction? Don't write something stupid and blatant, pick one of these options instead: * "Well, your country is much more homogeneous." * "Inequality is unfortunate but remember that IQ is very much determined by genes and that IQ is the strongest determining factor for future income so it is what it is." etc etc. I can't just ignore such bullshit, especially when it's left without any reaction.
CinchWrench 6y ago
Lol. which people? The ones questioning why we should accept this or the ones foisting this on the population? I could tell you but I'll be b& from commenting. :-)
- pueblito 6y ago
  I would personally prefer a direct answer. Then your post could be informative and discussed. Perhaps you could add nuance to the discourse. I think that by joking around that you’d be banned for doing so prevents that discussion from happening
  - CinchWrench 6y ago
    It's no joke, pal.
kmonsen 6y ago
Everyone that votes republican. Even many centrist democrats think so.
- mythrwy 6y ago
  Everyone who votes republican doesn't believe that. Maybe some republicans simply think realistic solutions are not those you believe will work.
  - germinalphrase 6y ago
    I’m from a Republican family in a culturally conservative part of the upper Midwest. It’s disappointing to see the national level Republican Party so diminished as to be seemingly nihilistic. Unless it falls in the bucket of tax cuts or deregulation, there seems to be so little positive vision of what the future should look like.
    - da_big_ghey 6y ago
      I've seen the same among most Republicans I know. They're despondent because the Republican party these days is just fighting against the far-leftists that are taking over the Democrat party. It's basically a one-way ratchet leftward: the Democrats get power and move stuff, then the Republicans get power and just prevent movement for a few years. The Libertarian party is the only one that's truly fighting for a better future with things like small government, gun rights, and lower taxes. The LP presents a positive vision of the future and a plan to get there that I like. So I'll keep voting Libertarian, even though I know we have no chance.
    - mythrwy 6y ago
      Maybe the idea is the government shouldn't be in the business of saying what they future should look like? The government keeps the roads fixed and the playing field level and the country safe. People, as individuals say what the future looks like.

grecy 6y ago

> The idea that a significant percentage of the population should be in debt, jobless or lacking healthcare coverage has been normalized and institutionalized. FWIW, that's only true in America, which is only 5% of the world's population. Hundreds of millions of people around the world have it much better.