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I read through it until you tried to say that Donald Trump is staging coup. This just isn't true. He's using every legal option available to him to investigat

I read through it until you tried to say that Donald Trump is staging coup. This just isn't true. He's using every legal option available to him to investigate oddities in an election. This is the way things should be done. What's unbelievable is that there are countless examples of first-hand accounts of voter fraud and Democrats don't want it investigated and are outright attacking anyone for even suggesting it. Governor Whitmer, for example, publicly stated that the two people that didn't want to certify the election were racist for doing so. This was after they were attacked, doxxed, and shamed for only wanting an investigation into the many allegations we have been seeing since election day. Does this sound like Democracy? It sounds like mob tactics to me. If there is no investigation, then the Democrats staged a coup and it proves all along that most people on the left don't care about justice or fairness, they only care about being right and getting power. Trump may very well have lost, but I want to ensure the future integrity of our elections.

Fellshard 6y ago
This is exactly right. However, Trump has been harming his case dramatically by making hyperinflated claims to the public in the process, claims that are extremely unlikely to be true, and could undermine the very trust the court cases could produce.
- b20000 6y ago
  Trump has every right to ask for a recount, and as far as I know, nothing is final until all votes have been counted and it's decided that there was no fraud.
- sacks2k 6y ago
  Trump can run his mouth off, but it doesn't mean there isn't voter fraud. His attorneys are the ones that are collecting evidence and will present them to the courts.
  - api 6y ago
    They have yet to present anything compelling and have lost everywhere, including in some very “red” areas.
  - hilbertseries 6y ago
    Can’t wait for this evidence that’s been promised for the last two weeks, but has yet to be delivered. Trump also claimed there was widespread voter fraud in 2016, that caused him to lose the popular vote. He was never able to produce any evidence of this, even after having a committee do an investigation.
    - noncoml 6y ago
      You are talking to someone who believes Trump when he says that he will release his tax returns. The likelihood of him producing any fraud evidence is the same as real easing his tax returns.
      - hilbertseries 6y ago
        Yes, I learned to argue by reading the myth of Sisyphus.
      - sacks2k 6y ago
        "You are talking to someone who believes Trump when he says that he will release his tax returns." I'm an individual, not a group. You have no idea what I believe about Trump's tax returns. I expected to have intelligent conversations/discussions here on HN, but all the half-hearted, biased responses I'm seeing, and the downvoting, tells me that it's probably not going to happen.
        noncoml 6y ago
        > I'm an individual, not a group. You have no idea what I believe about Trump's tax returns. If you tell me that you don’t believe that he will release his tax statement I will apologize. I would absolutely love to be proved wrong. Genuinely.
dmarchand90 6y ago
It's not doxxing when it's a public official. Also why was it that they refused to certify black communities after they already certified white communities with worse discrepancies. Also one of them was found with racist memes and Qanon conspiracy theories on their Facebook
- sacks2k 6y ago
  When they are doxxed and their families are threatened (I saw the videos making the rounds and the tweets afterwards), it doesn't make it okay. " refused to certify black communities after they already certified white communities with worse discrepancies" Everything isn't attributed to race. You are trying to tell us the intent of these individuals without knowing what they are actually thinking or why they chose to make this decision. I suppose this is the definition of bias. "Also one of them was found with racist memes and Qanon conspiracy theories on their Facebook" Many Democrat officials still believe the Russian collusion conspiracy theory. Should we discount everything they say as well?
  - dmarchand90 6y ago
    I'll address your points in detail below. But first I am curious if you really believe that the election was 'stolen' by the Democrats. "When they are doxxed and their families are threatened (I saw the videos making the rounds and the tweets afterwards), it doesn't make it okay." Again, they are public officials so calling them by name isn't Doxxing. Secondly, there is an angry Twitter mob saying all kinds of nonsense on both sides, so I think that cancels itself out. Are you saying Trump supporters have never asked for violence at all? Maybe you need to browse thedonald.win a bit first. So let's keep it focused on what was actually stated by the politicians in question. "Everything isn't attributed to race. You are trying to tell us the intent of these individuals without knowing what they are actually thinking or why they chose to make this decision. I suppose this is the definition of bias." You haven't really answered my question. If not race, then what was the metric, exactly, that made them question the validity of these black regions when by the same metrics the councilor was so concerned about several white communities with worse numbers were certified. But sure we can give them the benefit of the doubt and say they're not racists they're just trying to block votes from the party they don't like. "Many Democrat officials still believe the Russian collusion conspiracy theory. Should we discount everything they say as well?" There's two major problems with this. 1) There was real evidence that there was a russian conspiracy. In case you forgot several members of Trump's team, including his ex lawyer got arrested for crimes linked to this! Robert Muller didn't say Trump was innocent by the way, he said a sitting president couldn't be convicted for crimes by the investigation! 2) For all their whining on social media, Hilary never refused to concede the election, and called Trump the next day. Look I'm fine if you want to say this wasn't a 'fair' election, you can even make a good argument for that. Tucker Carlson, who I really don't like, has made arguments to this. But for this to be a 'stolen' election, for the president to routinely say this without any evidence beyond affidavits is absurd.
yalogin 6y ago
What is the reason every media outlet is saying there is no fraud? Can you provide examples of these first case reports of fraud please?
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  Here are two to get you started. https://youtu.be/mgPJyEfG0C0 https://youtu.be/mgPJyEfG0C0 https://gellerreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/gov.uscourts.gand_.283580.6.19.pdf https://gellerreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/gov.usco...
- sacks2k 6y ago
  The media also tried to say that dead people did not cast ballots in the election. I was able to find a dozen dead people in multiple states that requested and cast a ballot in the election. Real journalists should be curious about this and actually want to find out why. It's very odd that so many are trying to deny it or cover it up.
  - yalogin 6y ago
    That’s super interesting. What did you do with that information? Did you report it to the authorities and have them investigated and arrested? One person finding 12 cases of fraud is a huge deal and I think you would be hailed a hero and be on the news. Can you tell me what happened with your finding?
    - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
      > One person finding 12 cases of fraud is a huge deal and I think you would be hailed a hero and be on the news. Sadly this is not the case. The media has done nothing to report on this ballot harvester who was caught on tape: https://youtu.be/mgPJyEfG0C0 https://youtu.be/mgPJyEfG0C0
      - yalogin 6y ago
        That just looks like a dramatic reconstrcution

Fellshard 6y ago

This is exactly right. However, Trump has been harming his case dramatically by making hyperinflated claims to the public in the process, claims that are extremely unlikely to be true, and could undermine the very trust the court cases could produce.

b20000 6y ago
Trump has every right to ask for a recount, and as far as I know, nothing is final until all votes have been counted and it's decided that there was no fraud.
sacks2k 6y ago
Trump can run his mouth off, but it doesn't mean there isn't voter fraud. His attorneys are the ones that are collecting evidence and will present them to the courts.
- api 6y ago
  They have yet to present anything compelling and have lost everywhere, including in some very “red” areas.
- hilbertseries 6y ago
  Can’t wait for this evidence that’s been promised for the last two weeks, but has yet to be delivered. Trump also claimed there was widespread voter fraud in 2016, that caused him to lose the popular vote. He was never able to produce any evidence of this, even after having a committee do an investigation.
  - noncoml 6y ago
    You are talking to someone who believes Trump when he says that he will release his tax returns. The likelihood of him producing any fraud evidence is the same as real easing his tax returns.
    - hilbertseries 6y ago
      Yes, I learned to argue by reading the myth of Sisyphus.
    - sacks2k 6y ago
      "You are talking to someone who believes Trump when he says that he will release his tax returns." I'm an individual, not a group. You have no idea what I believe about Trump's tax returns. I expected to have intelligent conversations/discussions here on HN, but all the half-hearted, biased responses I'm seeing, and the downvoting, tells me that it's probably not going to happen.
      - noncoml 6y ago
        > I'm an individual, not a group. You have no idea what I believe about Trump's tax returns. If you tell me that you don’t believe that he will release his tax statement I will apologize. I would absolutely love to be proved wrong. Genuinely.

dmarchand90 6y ago

It's not doxxing when it's a public official. Also why was it that they refused to certify black communities after they already certified white communities with worse discrepancies. Also one of them was found with racist memes and Qanon conspiracy theories on their Facebook

sacks2k 6y ago
When they are doxxed and their families are threatened (I saw the videos making the rounds and the tweets afterwards), it doesn't make it okay. " refused to certify black communities after they already certified white communities with worse discrepancies" Everything isn't attributed to race. You are trying to tell us the intent of these individuals without knowing what they are actually thinking or why they chose to make this decision. I suppose this is the definition of bias. "Also one of them was found with racist memes and Qanon conspiracy theories on their Facebook" Many Democrat officials still believe the Russian collusion conspiracy theory. Should we discount everything they say as well?
- dmarchand90 6y ago
  I'll address your points in detail below. But first I am curious if you really believe that the election was 'stolen' by the Democrats. "When they are doxxed and their families are threatened (I saw the videos making the rounds and the tweets afterwards), it doesn't make it okay." Again, they are public officials so calling them by name isn't Doxxing. Secondly, there is an angry Twitter mob saying all kinds of nonsense on both sides, so I think that cancels itself out. Are you saying Trump supporters have never asked for violence at all? Maybe you need to browse thedonald.win a bit first. So let's keep it focused on what was actually stated by the politicians in question. "Everything isn't attributed to race. You are trying to tell us the intent of these individuals without knowing what they are actually thinking or why they chose to make this decision. I suppose this is the definition of bias." You haven't really answered my question. If not race, then what was the metric, exactly, that made them question the validity of these black regions when by the same metrics the councilor was so concerned about several white communities with worse numbers were certified. But sure we can give them the benefit of the doubt and say they're not racists they're just trying to block votes from the party they don't like. "Many Democrat officials still believe the Russian collusion conspiracy theory. Should we discount everything they say as well?" There's two major problems with this. 1) There was real evidence that there was a russian conspiracy. In case you forgot several members of Trump's team, including his ex lawyer got arrested for crimes linked to this! Robert Muller didn't say Trump was innocent by the way, he said a sitting president couldn't be convicted for crimes by the investigation! 2) For all their whining on social media, Hilary never refused to concede the election, and called Trump the next day. Look I'm fine if you want to say this wasn't a 'fair' election, you can even make a good argument for that. Tucker Carlson, who I really don't like, has made arguments to this. But for this to be a 'stolen' election, for the president to routinely say this without any evidence beyond affidavits is absurd.

yalogin 6y ago

What is the reason every media outlet is saying there is no fraud? Can you provide examples of these first case reports of fraud please?

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
Here are two to get you started. https://youtu.be/mgPJyEfG0C0 https://youtu.be/mgPJyEfG0C0 https://gellerreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/gov.uscourts.gand_.283580.6.19.pdf https://gellerreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/gov.usco...
sacks2k 6y ago
The media also tried to say that dead people did not cast ballots in the election. I was able to find a dozen dead people in multiple states that requested and cast a ballot in the election. Real journalists should be curious about this and actually want to find out why. It's very odd that so many are trying to deny it or cover it up.
- yalogin 6y ago
  That’s super interesting. What did you do with that information? Did you report it to the authorities and have them investigated and arrested? One person finding 12 cases of fraud is a huge deal and I think you would be hailed a hero and be on the news. Can you tell me what happened with your finding?
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    > One person finding 12 cases of fraud is a huge deal and I think you would be hailed a hero and be on the news. Sadly this is not the case. The media has done nothing to report on this ballot harvester who was caught on tape: https://youtu.be/mgPJyEfG0C0 https://youtu.be/mgPJyEfG0C0
    - yalogin 6y ago
      That just looks like a dramatic reconstrcution