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There’s lots of evidence of trade with African and MiddleEastern merchants in Viking-age Scandinavia; it’s totally plausible that some of these merchants ended

There’s lots of evidence of trade with African and MiddleEastern merchants in Viking-age Scandinavia; it’s totally plausible that some of these merchants ended up there

orwin 6y ago
Not only that, but there is evidence of genetic exchange taking place around the 9th century between scandinavia/England and Malian kingdoms (i know it was not the Malian kingdom at that time). Probably slave trade tbh.
- COGlory 6y ago
  Do you have a source for this? Id be curious to read it
serf 6y ago
> it’s totally plausible that some of these merchants ended up there that's the same conclusion that the author came to; they just presume there would be a higher ratio of African origin individuals rather than Asia due to trade-route proximities.
- Ar-Curunir 6y ago
  But the Vikings traded via Russia down to Persia, so Asian representation not less likely?
  - ReptileMan 6y ago
    Barbary coast, Spain England via sea vs Sweden, Finland, Silk Road ....
  - gelert 6y ago
    While it is true that vikings traded and travelled down there - the famous Varangian Guard of Byzantium is a notable example. It does make Asian representation less likely. Trade with North and West Africa was purely maritime whereas to travel and trade across what is now Russia land travel was required, even if rivers made up most of the distance. This drastically slowed down travel time making it much more likely those Asian merchants would sell their goods on to an intermediary rather than travel all the way to Scandinavia and then on to Britain. On another tack I suppose it also doesn't really make sense for an Asian merchant like that to go on to Britain if they were in Scandinavia - I doubt they'd get better deals on goods or more demand for their goods. And they wouldn't return that way. Whereas African merchants would happen upon Britain first and would stop on their way back if they actually did travel all the way to Scandinavia.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      To add to that an Asian merchant would need to know a very large number of languages to go that far on land. The African merchants traveling by ship need to know their home language and whatever language is spoken where they trade. If you stop at a port along the way you aren't there to trade your goods, just a few supplies: possibly food, or alcohol and prostitutes (note that I always use the oxford comma!) which can be done with simple gestures. When you cross land you travel through too many villages to risk not knowing them all (or having a guide who does). The cost of land travel as well means that almost nothing is going to be traded long distances. Any merchant from Asia is guaranteed to be talking directly to the powerful king - if there isn't a powerful king (which England was just starting to get) there isn't enough wealth to make anything worth bringing that far. This does leave the curiosity. The person who doesn't fit in back home: so he travels far and lives as an exotic figure, moving around often enough before the locals figure out why he isn't welcome back home.
Qiu_Zhanxuan 6y ago
An account of such event was recorded by Ibn Fadlan, an arabic scholar and traveller. Extra-history made an animated story about it : https://youtu.be/RSURd15qfWQ https://youtu.be/RSURd15qfWQ
himinlomax 6y ago
There was trade, there is however not "a lot", not even some evidence of African or Middle-Eastern merchants settling in any kind of notable numbers. When confronted, the people who claim otherwise simply point out that it was possible to make the trip (well, duh), which is not at all the same thing as having a lot of people actually doing it.
- AniseAbyss 6y ago
  Just because you find some Chinese pottery somewhere doesn't mean that a Chinese merchant went all the way from China to trade it. A lot of expensive and exotic stuff was literally handed down from caravan to caravan over years before it found itself in a European market stall.

There’s lots of evidence of trade with African and MiddleEastern merchants in Viking-age Scandinavia; it’s totally plausible that some of these merchants ended up there

orwin 6y ago

Not only that, but there is evidence of genetic exchange taking place around the 9th century between scandinavia/England and Malian kingdoms (i know it was not the Malian kingdom at that time). Probably slave trade tbh.

COGlory 6y ago
Do you have a source for this? Id be curious to read it

serf 6y ago

> it’s totally plausible that some of these merchants ended up there that's the same conclusion that the author came to; they just presume there would be a higher ratio of African origin individuals rather than Asia due to trade-route proximities.

Ar-Curunir 6y ago
But the Vikings traded via Russia down to Persia, so Asian representation not less likely?
- ReptileMan 6y ago
  Barbary coast, Spain England via sea vs Sweden, Finland, Silk Road ....
- gelert 6y ago
  While it is true that vikings traded and travelled down there - the famous Varangian Guard of Byzantium is a notable example. It does make Asian representation less likely. Trade with North and West Africa was purely maritime whereas to travel and trade across what is now Russia land travel was required, even if rivers made up most of the distance. This drastically slowed down travel time making it much more likely those Asian merchants would sell their goods on to an intermediary rather than travel all the way to Scandinavia and then on to Britain. On another tack I suppose it also doesn't really make sense for an Asian merchant like that to go on to Britain if they were in Scandinavia - I doubt they'd get better deals on goods or more demand for their goods. And they wouldn't return that way. Whereas African merchants would happen upon Britain first and would stop on their way back if they actually did travel all the way to Scandinavia.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    To add to that an Asian merchant would need to know a very large number of languages to go that far on land. The African merchants traveling by ship need to know their home language and whatever language is spoken where they trade. If you stop at a port along the way you aren't there to trade your goods, just a few supplies: possibly food, or alcohol and prostitutes (note that I always use the oxford comma!) which can be done with simple gestures. When you cross land you travel through too many villages to risk not knowing them all (or having a guide who does). The cost of land travel as well means that almost nothing is going to be traded long distances. Any merchant from Asia is guaranteed to be talking directly to the powerful king - if there isn't a powerful king (which England was just starting to get) there isn't enough wealth to make anything worth bringing that far. This does leave the curiosity. The person who doesn't fit in back home: so he travels far and lives as an exotic figure, moving around often enough before the locals figure out why he isn't welcome back home.

Qiu_Zhanxuan 6y ago

An account of such event was recorded by Ibn Fadlan, an arabic scholar and traveller. Extra-history made an animated story about it : https://youtu.be/RSURd15qfWQ https://youtu.be/RSURd15qfWQ

himinlomax 6y ago

There was trade, there is however not "a lot", not even some evidence of African or Middle-Eastern merchants settling in any kind of notable numbers. When confronted, the people who claim otherwise simply point out that it was possible to make the trip (well, duh), which is not at all the same thing as having a lot of people actually doing it.

AniseAbyss 6y ago
Just because you find some Chinese pottery somewhere doesn't mean that a Chinese merchant went all the way from China to trade it. A lot of expensive and exotic stuff was literally handed down from caravan to caravan over years before it found itself in a European market stall.