4 ms·

Let's imagine it's a electric car. The car goes 70mph when you buy it. Suddenly it only runs at 45mph. You want to buy a new battery to fix it but the car compa

Let's imagine it's a electric car. The car goes 70mph when you buy it. Suddenly it only runs at 45mph. You want to buy a new battery to fix it but the car company refuses even though you're willing to pay. Why should you have to put up with a car that only goes 45mph when it went 70mph when you bought it? What part of this is hard to understand. I don't want a phone that runs slow.

arcticbull 6y ago
It's different in that the electric car is marketed as capable of achieving 70mph, Apple does not market iOS devices in terms of performance. No promises were made in that regard - at all, IIRC.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  > Apple does not market iOS devices in terms of performance. Come on dude, stop bullshitting. Every Apple device promotion shows how it is faster or better than the previous device or its competitors. Even the new Apple ARM processor touts how it is equal or better than other processors.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  Consumer expectations matter. People would be rightfully mad if cars changed in performance after you test drove them, after all, even with no explicit promises. And Apple does advertise benchmarks on their slides.
- mft_ 6y ago
  Don’t customers have a reasonable expectation of roughly consistent performance of their device? And to your point, car companies don’t market their cars using ‘achieving 70mph’ as a feature. It’s just a reasonable expectation of performance. They might mention the top speed, but that’s more of a specification than a marketing feature in most cases.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Sure, but the performance of your car degrades as the tires bald, does it not? Fuel economy changes, cornering, maximum acceleration off the line.
    - mft_ 6y ago
      Yes, and the manufacturers make it trivial to replace vital consumables such as tyres! That Apple blocked easy battery replacement, even through their own for-profit stores, is a part of the case against them you seem to be ignoring.
- eknkc 6y ago
  This right here is the reason Apple fans irritate me. I love Apple devices but the quality regressed in recent years, to the point that I left most of the ecosystem. But you can not have a healthy discussion about that because some people will come out and defend apple with their blood and tears. No matter ridiculous their stance is.
  - ksec 6y ago
    And I dont mind if they have a valid argument. But most of the time it doesn't make any sense, technical, economical, or user perspective. And most of these fans are post-iPhone Apple Fans as well.
    - astura 6y ago
      When the first iPhone came out in 2008 Apple's rabid fan base came out just to keep saying "why would anyone ever want MMS and copy/paste?" It really didn't make any sense... I would have been somewhat interested in buying one if I could afford one, so I wasn't a hater.
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        I don't think you're remembering that right. The early iPhone adopters, myself included, were focused on all the amazing new stuff the iPhone gave me over my Motorola Pebl, like a giant screen, a full desktop web browser, unlimited (albeit very slow) mobile internet in the middle of absolutely nowhere, and a buttery-smooth UI experience. Remember the state of the art at the time was the Razr for consumer phones, Rokr for music phones, and the N900 for smartphones. Put them side by side with the original iPhone and you'll understand why copy-paste and MMS was the last thing on our minds. There was no Android, that came out a year and a bit later. And Android 1.0 was hot garbage.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      My first Mac was an SE/30 then an LC475 when I was a kid, and an iMac G4 15" (2002) and iBook G3 Snow (2003) are the machines I learned to write software on.
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  I can't believe how much of an echo-chamber these discussions get. Its like proper politics - once people chose their branch of religion, be it faith in god or in their phone manufacturer, they go to great lengths to twist reality so that their favorite comes always as good guy. Cognitive dissonance anybody? I have no stake at this topic, never owned an Apple device and I don't feel other manufacturers are significantly better, but its a bit sad to see so much apologism at otherwise great place like HN. Or its just paid comments either from employees or otherwise employed, I mean we're still just on general internet and its still 2020 so its unfortunately pretty normal. In any case, if you guys try to defend these seemingly amoral actions of Apple, the real effect is exactly opposite.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Performance characteristics aren't exactly "amoral" -- if you want to talk "amoral," I'd suggest focusing on their stance on reparability, to which I'm very sympathetic. Eventually you have to run the car much more gently before replacing the tires to avoid putting yourself at risk.

arcticbull 6y ago

It's different in that the electric car is marketed as capable of achieving 70mph, Apple does not market iOS devices in terms of performance. No promises were made in that regard - at all, IIRC.

webmobdev 6y ago
> Apple does not market iOS devices in terms of performance. Come on dude, stop bullshitting. Every Apple device promotion shows how it is faster or better than the previous device or its competitors. Even the new Apple ARM processor touts how it is equal or better than other processors.
Dylan16807 6y ago
Consumer expectations matter. People would be rightfully mad if cars changed in performance after you test drove them, after all, even with no explicit promises. And Apple does advertise benchmarks on their slides.
mft_ 6y ago
Don’t customers have a reasonable expectation of roughly consistent performance of their device? And to your point, car companies don’t market their cars using ‘achieving 70mph’ as a feature. It’s just a reasonable expectation of performance. They might mention the top speed, but that’s more of a specification than a marketing feature in most cases.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Sure, but the performance of your car degrades as the tires bald, does it not? Fuel economy changes, cornering, maximum acceleration off the line.
  - mft_ 6y ago
    Yes, and the manufacturers make it trivial to replace vital consumables such as tyres! That Apple blocked easy battery replacement, even through their own for-profit stores, is a part of the case against them you seem to be ignoring.
eknkc 6y ago
This right here is the reason Apple fans irritate me. I love Apple devices but the quality regressed in recent years, to the point that I left most of the ecosystem. But you can not have a healthy discussion about that because some people will come out and defend apple with their blood and tears. No matter ridiculous their stance is.
- ksec 6y ago
  And I dont mind if they have a valid argument. But most of the time it doesn't make any sense, technical, economical, or user perspective. And most of these fans are post-iPhone Apple Fans as well.
  - astura 6y ago
    When the first iPhone came out in 2008 Apple's rabid fan base came out just to keep saying "why would anyone ever want MMS and copy/paste?" It really didn't make any sense... I would have been somewhat interested in buying one if I could afford one, so I wasn't a hater.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      I don't think you're remembering that right. The early iPhone adopters, myself included, were focused on all the amazing new stuff the iPhone gave me over my Motorola Pebl, like a giant screen, a full desktop web browser, unlimited (albeit very slow) mobile internet in the middle of absolutely nowhere, and a buttery-smooth UI experience. Remember the state of the art at the time was the Razr for consumer phones, Rokr for music phones, and the N900 for smartphones. Put them side by side with the original iPhone and you'll understand why copy-paste and MMS was the last thing on our minds. There was no Android, that came out a year and a bit later. And Android 1.0 was hot garbage.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    My first Mac was an SE/30 then an LC475 when I was a kid, and an iMac G4 15" (2002) and iBook G3 Snow (2003) are the machines I learned to write software on.
saiya-jin 6y ago
I can't believe how much of an echo-chamber these discussions get. Its like proper politics - once people chose their branch of religion, be it faith in god or in their phone manufacturer, they go to great lengths to twist reality so that their favorite comes always as good guy. Cognitive dissonance anybody? I have no stake at this topic, never owned an Apple device and I don't feel other manufacturers are significantly better, but its a bit sad to see so much apologism at otherwise great place like HN. Or its just paid comments either from employees or otherwise employed, I mean we're still just on general internet and its still 2020 so its unfortunately pretty normal. In any case, if you guys try to defend these seemingly amoral actions of Apple, the real effect is exactly opposite.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Performance characteristics aren't exactly "amoral" -- if you want to talk "amoral," I'd suggest focusing on their stance on reparability, to which I'm very sympathetic. Eventually you have to run the car much more gently before replacing the tires to avoid putting yourself at risk.